Chow Chow Attack

[RD]

Just how do you know that what they are posting is false? Are you thoroughly familiar with these breeds so that you KNOW that what is said is false?

I would suspect that if one obtains information from one of the top breeders of a breed, then that information can be taken as gospel, wouldn't you? Sarah had Chows for eons. She produced 25 home bred champions. She received recognition from the top AKC judges and most knowledgeable dog gurus! Not bad for someone who could barely afford to show, and seldom went to shows further than 200 miles from home!!!!! Got written up in Dog World magazine---actually her dogs were RAVED about in that article!!!

You can rest assured that if anyone posts any false information about any breed I am well educated in, I will set them straight! And believe it or not, there are scores of breeds I do not know nuttin' about, lol. So I am not being a conceited twit!!!!!! Although I am sure that sometimes I sound like it.

Oh.....I guess I forgot to mention that I owned Chows once upon a time????

Yes, I am quite familiar with Chows and their temperaments. I've only owned one, and even then she was mixed with another breed (most likely labrador) but she had a very hard, correct Chow temperament which sparked my interest in the breed, and I've gotten to know Chows pretty well. (Never gotten involved in the breed, however.)
As for this breeder.. No matter how well her dogs did in shows, if they were as spastic and unpredictable as you describe them, they don't have the correct temperament for the breed. The standard clearly states that aggression or timidity is not acceptable. Reservation, dignity and aloofness is correct, and it would not surprise me to see a Chow get snarky over someone getting in their face, but a dog that "tries to eat everything that moves" needs to be removed from the gene pool.

I will agree with you on one thing - chows are weird, and definitely not like most dogs. They are really subtle with their body language, Chow body language is quite different than what most people are used to, and thats one of the reasons I think a lot of people wind up being bitten by Chows. My girl rarely growled or showed teeth as a warning to people. Instead, she would raise the hair on her back, stiffen her body and wag her tail stiffly and straight-up in the air. Most people would consider her to be friendly because the only thing they saw was the wagging tail. So, they'd get in her face because they thought she wanted them to pet her, and they'd get snarked at. It took me a while to realize that she was giving them fair warning, it just wasn't in typical dog fashion. She was a weirdo when it came to body language, that's for sure.

 

[Manchesters]

Hair

Yes, I am quite familiar with Chows and their temperaments. I've only owned one, and even then she was mixed with another breed (most likely labrador) but she had a very hard, correct Chow temperament which sparked my interest in the breed, and I've gotten to know Chows pretty well. (Never gotten involved in the breed, however.)
As for this breeder.. No matter how well her dogs did in shows, if they were as spastic and unpredictable as you describe them, they don't have the correct temperament for the breed. The standard clearly states that aggression or timidity is not acceptable. Reservation, dignity and aloofness is correct, and it would not surprise me to see a Chow get snarky over someone getting in their face, but a dog that "tries to eat everything that moves" needs to be removed from the gene pool.

I will agree with you on one thing - chows are weird, and definitely not like most dogs. They are really subtle with their body language, Chow body language is quite different than what most people are used to, and thats one of the reasons I think a lot of people wind up being bitten by Chows. My girl rarely growled or showed teeth as a warning to people. Instead, she would raise the hair on her back, stiffen her body and wag her tail stiffly and straight-up in the air. Most people would consider her to be friendly because the only thing they saw was the wagging tail. So, they'd get in her face because they thought she wanted them to pet her, and they'd get snarked at. It took me a while to realize that she was giving them fair warning, it just wasn't in typical dog fashion. She was a weirdo when it came to body language, that's for sure.

Well, according to those in the know, Sarah's dogs had excellent temperament. I did not say they were aggressive....I said that CHOWS will flake out in a heart beat, like other breeds such as some of the Sight Hounds. It is difficult to see if a dog has its hair standing on end when they have hair that is 8-10 inches long, rofl. Her dogs were sweet with her....period. Which is the way they are supposed to be.

Manchesters also are "aloof toward strangers"--as are Whippets. A stranger try to get too familiar with one of my spoiled brats, and they will get eaten...as best as can be.

I personally don't like hairy dogs. I prefer what Sarah calls my "neeked eagle beaks".

If you happen to get around either The Book Of The Chow Chow by Joan Brearly or Anna K. Nicolas' book, Sarah's kennel name is/was Sa-Mi Chows. I guess the dogs she showed must have had a passable dispostion. A dog is excused from the ring if it tries to bite the judge. 3 disqualifictions and it cannot be shown again.

I seem to recall that at one point the one dog she was specialing was like the #2 Chow in the country. Can't remember what the heck his name was. All I remember was that he would not eat unless his food was coated with cream of chicken soup, and he would only eat if she fed him off a tablespoon. It was a good thing that dog couldn't speak English, or his ears would have been burning, roflmbo!!!!! McGoo......I think that was part of his name. Goober for short. (Among other less polite names, heheheh!)

 

[becca_4321]

Chows arent bad dogs. They require a certain type of owner. If you are looking for a dog to play frizbies with then dont get a chow. If you want a dog that will jump thru hoops and do cute tricks, dont get a chow. If you want a dog that will love everyone and give an intruder the tour of the house, then dont get a chow. If you want a dog you dont have to invest a lot of time socializing and working with, then dont get a chow. And if you have nothing good to say about the breed then dont offer help to someone with a chow who comes here to ask for advice! That poor poster didnt come here to hear his/her dog is just a messed up breed, and to hear people put their breed of dog down. If I was that person I'd never come back here!

Fact's are, a chows personality is different than most breeds. So what. Understand that when you get a chow. To many people love the look and get chows without understanding what a chow is all about. Because of this the dog isnt properly socialized or trained. When it comes to the show dog, that doesnt impress me one bit. To many people who want the best of the breed just want to impress the hell out of themselves and their dogs live most of their lives in kennels. Cant take any chances with a prize winning dog.

So many people here have pittbulls. When someone new comes to ask how to handle a situation as what the orginal poster was asking, how many here would have said well dont you know they are wired all wrong,they are fighting dogs of course they will have problems? Only a very few will say anything negitive about that breed. But let it be a chow problem and you see all this negitive stuff and how unstable they are, and only a very few will defend the breed. My sister has a boxer and the dog wants nothing to do with little kids, my dogs follow Ashlyn around everywhere, let her hug them. They come running everytime one of the babies cry and start licking their feet or face to make them feel better. Kokomo doesnt even do this. He doesnt care that they cry.

Gracie is a little stand offish. So we continue to work with her and have a friend that comes over who understands chows and he works with her too. We play chase with sudden movements. At first Gracie was scared, now she loves it. She will go up to strangers, sniff their shoes. She doesnt want to be petted by them, but she doesnt growl. She'll check them out then go off and play. She may never be one a stranger can just come up and pet like Princess. Understand your dog, work with your dog. When you see areas that need improvement, work on that problem. I watch Gracie, one time when I first got her I seen a issue I wanted corrected right away before it became a problem. I went to a Chow group to ask because who would understand a chow better but chow owners themselves. Here I'd risk hearing all these bad things like this poor poster had to hear. The issue I had is no longer an issue. It was nothing serious, but I wanted to make sure it didnt become serious. Understand your breed. And please dont compare someones dog breed to someone else's monsters.

 

[bridey_01]

Sighthounds flake out in a second? I've owned at least five greyhounds, two whippets, lived with three borzois and trained two salukis. All of them were the most laid back, relaxed couch potatoes you could ever meet! One of the borzois got slightly rambunctious when around huskies and other wolfy dogs, for obvious reasons, but I certainly don't find them to be at all unpredictable!
I simply love greyhounds and whippets and those tiny little italian greyhounds! lol, I usually love "naked" dogs but I really fell for collies big time.
As for chows, I've met three. Two tried to eat me, one was very lablike and licked my face.

 

[RD]

Well, according to those in the know, Sarah's dogs had excellent temperament. I did not say they were aggressive....I said that CHOWS will flake out in a heart beat, like other breeds such as some of the Sight Hounds. It is difficult to see if a dog has its hair standing on end when they have hair that is 8-10 inches long, rofl. Her dogs were sweet with her....period. Which is the way they are supposed to be.

Manchesters also are "aloof toward strangers"--as are Whippets. A stranger try to get too familiar with one of my spoiled brats, and they will get eaten...as best as can be.

I personally don't like hairy dogs. I prefer what Sarah calls my "neeked eagle beaks".

If you happen to get around either The Book Of The Chow Chow by Joan Brearly or Anna K. Nicolas' book, Sarah's kennel name is/was Sa-Mi Chows. I guess the dogs she showed must have had a passable dispostion. A dog is excused from the ring if it tries to bite the judge. 3 disqualifictions and it cannot be shown again.

I seem to recall that at one point the one dog she was specialing was like the #2 Chow in the country. Can't remember what the heck his name was. All I remember was that he would not eat unless his food was coated with cream of chicken soup, and he would only eat if she fed him off a tablespoon. It was a good thing that dog couldn't speak English, or his ears would have been burning, roflmbo!!!!! McGoo......I think that was part of his name. Goober for short. (Among other less polite names, heheheh!)

Neekid eagle beaks? ROFLMAO!

I can't say that I agree with you about chows flaking out in a heartbeat because in my experience (Although admittedly it has been limited as I've only owned one.) most actually do display warnings. But they're weird warnings, and most people never even notice. (Like you said, it's hard to tell if a dog's hair is standing up if it's 8" long. [My girl had a shorter, very dense coat, and it was easier for people to see when she did that])

And OMG, McGoo, that dog sounds like such a character.. And I thought my boys were spoiled brats! LOL!

 

[yuckaduck]

One of Sarah's pups went to the lead singer of the group Alabama. And another to Jimmy Buffet. THEY sought her out! She nearly fainted when she heard from the Alabama fellow--she adored their music!!

I would faint too if I ever had the chance to meet Randy Owen.

 

[yuckaduck]

Neekid eagle beaks? ROFLMAO!

I can't say that I agree with you about chows flaking out in a heartbeat because in my experience (Although admittedly it has been limited as I've only owned one.) most actually do display warnings. But they're weird warnings, and most people never even notice. (Like you said, it's hard to tell if a dog's hair is standing up if it's 8" long. [My girl had a shorter, very dense coat, and it was easier for people to see when she did that])

And OMG, McGoo, that dog sounds like such a character.. And I thought my boys were spoiled brats! LOL!

You said yours was mixed with the lab perhaps that is what made it so different, not the same thing you are talking about here. A chow is a chow and a chow/lab is just that. The lab temperment might be coming in to play.

 

[moe]

Wooowah this has ended up as world war three, someone has asked for advice and what do they get... a battle, this is not constructive, if the dog has issues they need to be dealt with, I suggest the owner take the dog firstly to the vet to eliminate any medicale problems then if all is clear take the dog to socialisation classes, the instructer there should advise if a muzzle is required or not, in the meantime, dont allow anyone to approach the dog whilst not attended.

I think people should keep their personal greivencies to themselves, we all know that blanket statements are made sometimes in haste, but to keep on jumping down each others throats does not sort the problems out. sheeesh its a wonder anyone asks a question on here.
Mo

 

[Manchesters]

Wwiii

Wooowah this has ended up as world war three, someone has asked for advice and what do they get... a battle, this is not constructive, if the dog has issues they need to be dealt with, I suggest the owner take the dog firstly to the vet to eliminate any medicale problems then if all is clear take the dog to socialisation classes, the instructer there should advise if a muzzle is required or not, in the meantime, dont allow anyone to approach the dog whilst not attended.

I think people should keep their personal greivencies to themselves, we all know that blanket statements are made sometimes in haste, but to keep on jumping down each others throats does not sort the problems out. sheeesh its a wonder anyone asks a question on here.
Mo

OK......here is the answer. A two year old Chow needs to be neutered. They are not the breed for the average pet owner. They are for the most part a breeder's breed. A male Chow will eventually start pushing its boundaries, and if not quelched immediately will become dangerous to any human around it.

As far as sight hounds being flakey, knowing two or three does not even begin to count as far as experience. I have had Whippets for 20 years. None of mine have flaked. But then again, I have known male Borzoi who have killed dogs, and then stood guard and tried to kill the owner who was trying to help the torn up dog as it dies.

Knew a lady with a Ch. Greyhound that would attack anyone who tried to pet it, as well as any dog it could get within 2 inches of. She had a ton of fun finishing Donald. Don't know why she even bothered.
A waste of championship points in my opinion.

There was no arguing.....just some people not familiar with the breed. You have to be more determined and pushy than a Chow is to be able to keep it under control. The wrinkled headed ones are near blind, and spooky. The coyote headed ones tend to be a bit nicer.

 

[Manchesters]

Not Impressed With Showing?????

That is likely because you know nothing about showing, maybe? Or who shows? It is for the most part the BREEDERS who show. And if it weren't for the breeders, there would be no Chows around that even look like Chows. There is a little detail involved in dogs known as structure. It is the breeders and show people that perpetuate the breeds and keep them intact.

You are correct in your assessment of the breed. They are a breed that don't feel they need humans to survive. They would as soon be left alone as not. And because of the overly wrinkled heads that were fashionable at one time the dogs were locked into their own little worlds because they couldn't see diddley.

They are great with their owner's and owner's family for the most part......although some dogs will only associate with the owner, and tolerate the rest of the family.

However, NO casual pet owner should have an unaltered male Chow. Once they reach sexual maturity (guess when THAT occurs???) the casual pet owner is not equipted to deal with them. Period. Have you had the fun of being around a surly 2+ year old male Chow? It is quite an experience. You get calls from these poor pet owners.........."My dog is a Chow, and he is all matted, but he won't let me brush him, and all the grooming shops refuse to take him"......etc, etc, etc. True the problem started when the pup was 6 weeks old, but by 2, it is a little late...just a tad, rofl.

 

[Adrienne]

I just wanted to wish you the best with your dog and I hope that you take the advice given about getting him health checked and neutered if he isn't already. I am sorry so many people hijacked your thread with useless information that had nothing to do with what you asked. Just skim through and take the good advice given and ignore all the battles that people started. Each dog is unique, personality largley determined by it's environment and life expereinces. You will just have to work extra hard with your dog given their tendency to be more aloof, find something your dog loves more than anything else on this earth and use that for his motivation to help mold his behaviors into ones that are more acceptable.

Good Luck!

 

[Ash47]

I just want to say that in no way do I think Chows are "psychotic." I think that Chows are beautiful loving dogs. We had a fullblood one when my brother was learning to walk. She helped him. I do agree though, that if allowed, a Chow will go psychotic before say, a Golden Retriever. I have a ChowX now. Never would I put down a breed. I just think that some breeds have different tendencies than others... And if allowed to, those tendencies can get out of control. A Chow is a breed that is best for the experienced dog owner, as has been said here many times.
Just wanted to clarify on my last post. So that everyone knew how I really felt.

 

[moe]

Ahh well Manchester I may not be an expert when it comes to chows, I have known a few in my 48 years of being a dog lover and owner for most of those years, some of the chows I have met have been wonderful dogs, some have been little devils, this could be to do with breeding but I think the nurture factor is in there too, if you are going to have a strong will breed,(my own particular breed is known to be this way) then you must be prepared to put the effort into making the dog behave in an acceptable manner. the original poster has asked for help, I personally dont think all the argy bargy that has gone on since has been a whole lot of help to this particular owner, the poster now owns this dog and wants to work through the problems, to just continually inform the poster that he has basically a nutter on his hands does not help.what do you want the poster to do give up at the first hurdle and throw in the towel, have the dog PTS? or at least try to sort the problem out?

Mo

 

[Manchesters]

Apples And Oranges

Ahh well Manchester I may not be an expert when it comes to chows, I have known a few in my 48 years of being a dog lover and owner for most of those years, some of the chows I have met have been wonderful dogs, some have been little devils, this could be to do with breeding but I think the nurture factor is in there too, if you are going to have a strong will breed,(my own particular breed is known to be this way) then you must be prepared to put the effort into making the dog behave in an acceptable manner. the original poster has asked for help, I personally dont think all the argy bargy that has gone on since has been a whole lot of help to this particular owner, the poster now owns this dog and wants to work through the problems, to just continually inform the poster that he has basically a nutter on his hands does not help.what do you want the poster to do give up at the first hurdle and throw in the towel, have the dog PTS? or at least try to sort the problem out?

Mo

Super website!! by the way. You really cannot compare dogs from the U.S. gene pool with dogs from the U.K. your gene pools were locked tight in all breeds for scads of years.

And also my major point although I really did not feel up to delving into it was that backyard bred Chows are treacherous if not raised with a firm hand. And since most people who buy from BYB don't know squat about Chows there WILL be problems. The breeders breed for temperament. BYBs don't even know what the word means. And usually if you get around the parents of their puppies, the dogs ARE aggressive for the most part.

Any pet male Chow should be neutered....likely should have been at 1 year of age. By 2, the personality is pretty much set.

And my intention was not to, nor did I denegrate a particular breed. My feeling it is the breeders of the "Chows" in question who should be denegrated 6 foot under!!!!!

I did not suggest he give up. Neuter, neuter, neuter, not nutter nutter nutter, roflmbo.

My whole point, which several seem to have missed is that even properly bred Chows need intelligent, educated handling. This is NOT a breed to get into without planning on being a consistent, firm owner who sets specific guidelines for the dog's behavior. It is NOT a dog for the average pet owner. Which may be why there are so few out in the general population as pets.

And I was also trying to point out that the situation is NOT going to get better. It has already happened and will have to be carefully guarded against from this point on. A good group obedience class would be very benefical if not too much time has passed.

 

[moe]

Thanks re website.

quote.A good group obedience class would be very benefical if not too much time has passed unquote

now thats constructive. what we have got to realise here although what you are saying may be correct, but saying it now is like trying to shut the barn door after the horse has bolted. the poster has the dog already and has a problem that needs to be dealt with now. maybe in years to come if the poster decided they need another dog they will remember that chows are by the looks of it something to avoid.

Mo

 

[becca_4321]

I agree with you manchesters. To many people take on a chow with no clue what they are in for. Soon they have an adolescence trying to rule the house.

I would get the dog Neutered. I wish you luck and I'm sorry this got so nasty.

 

[Manchesters]

Too Late????

I agree with you manchesters. To many people take on a chow with no clue what they are in for. Soon they have an adolescence trying to rule the house.

I would get the dog Neutered. I wish you luck and I'm sorry this got so nasty.

I am on the phone with Sarah......she says there is only one thing to do with this dog before it is too late and he really hurts someone. It is too late to do anything else. It will only get progressively worse. She said you can take this from someone who knows more about the breed than anyone around here could ever hope to know. Neutering will not help at this stage.

I was trying to be constructive.......I knew that this was the case as stated above, but didn't want to say it. Sarah is more outspoken than even I could be, rofl. But you can take what she says to the bank, rofl.

 

[poeluvr]

I am on the phone with Sarah...... She said you can take this from someone who knows more about the breed than anyone around here could ever hope to know. Neutering will not help at this stage.

so is she saying sh eknows more about the breed or u do?

My whole point, which several seem to have missed is that even properly bred Chows need intelligent, educated handling. This is NOT a breed to get into without planning on being a consistent, firm owner who sets specific guidelines for the dog's behavior.

ALL DOG STHOUGH NEED intelligent educated handling to some level, also all dog owners need to be consistent or there would be a bunch of house pooping maniacs running loose! hehe

 

[Julie]

I am on the phone with Sarah......she says there is only one thing to do with this dog before it is too late and he really hurts someone. It is too late to do anything else. It will only get progressively worse. She said you can take this from someone who knows more about the breed than anyone around here could ever hope to know. Neutering will not help at this stage.

I was trying to be constructive.......I knew that this was the case as stated above, but didn't want to say it. Sarah is more outspoken than even I could be, rofl. But you can take what she says to the bank, rofl.

Manchesters,
Do you mean what I think you are trying to say w/o actually saying it?
About the one thing to do? Is that what Sarah told you should be done?

 

[yuckaduck]

I believe she is saying that without coming right out and saying it. I think it is a hard decisiion to make and takes abit of compasion when suggesting such a thing. I think Manchesters may be getting soft on us here. Personally I can't disagree or agree because I know nothing of the breed.