Changing Preferences (dogs/breeders/etc)

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by SpringerLover, Feb 17, 2013.

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What's your preference?

  1. I do conformation and don't want a working dog.

    3 vote(s)
    5.6%
  2. I have working dogs and don't want to do conformation.

    15 vote(s)
    27.8%
  3. I'm open to suggestions... :)

    26 vote(s)
    48.1%
  4. Banana cream pie.

    15 vote(s)
    27.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Conformation is important to me because it affects working ability. When I get my stag I'm going to look hard for good feet, nice layback on the shoulder, balanced angulation, non cowhocked, etc. That stuff matters regardless of whether my dog is a purpose bred mix or from top ranked show lines.

    I like showing. It's fun, when Kaia gets her AKC CH I plan to dabble around until she has her GrCH and take her out for UKC, CKC, and IABCA titles too.

    I also like hunting and want to put her on a lure and do coursing. They're really fun to run on rabbits and raccoons, and when we get a chance, coyotes.

    Some day I'd love to hunt boar. There's a bunch of feral Russian boar out in Montesano, but I have no idea what I'm doing with that and how to start the dogs out without them getting mangled their first time.
     
  2. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I'm not voting, because I don't like banana cream pie.

    And I'm not really open to suggestions, I tend to know what I want in a dog. And I want the full package. Staffords aren't really a "working" breed in the sense of having a genuine task that they can be bred for, though there are a number of sports they can participate in. And I like dogs that can do both conformation and participate in sports. Of the 2, I'm probably more interested in the sporting ability, since I'm more involved in that than I am conformation. I do want my dogs to look like Staffords. I'm also not interested in following trends in the show ring to have winning dogs. So I want them to look like my interpretation of the standard. And I'll show those dogs, and if they win, great, and if they don't, well it's just a dog show.

    That said, I do tend to end up with dogs from conformation lines, because the dogs being bred for sport (in this country at least) tend to have structural issues, and in some cases, health issues. They're mostly being bred for flyball, and those breeders seem mostly interested in breeding for tons of drive with little other criteria. And no, not willing to compromise on that.

    This is why I end up breeding my own dogs. ;)
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Working ability and temperament are number one for me. They have to be. BUT, with my breed I can get everything I want wrapped up in one package, and that's what I got. Logan has points in both AKC and UKC conformation, rally and lure coursing titles, herding instinct, and he's a working service dog. I'm super, super proud of his UKC Total Dog award :)
     
  4. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    It varies breed to breed with me. I believe, though, I wouldn't choose any breeder that strictly shows conformation and does nothing else. I would go with a breeder that does performance events/works their dogs and does not show conformation.

    When I go to get my standard poodle, I will only look at breeders that work their dogs and select for drive. I find the show lines a bit 'duller' than what I would be looking for. Kelpies, I'm stuck with working breeders whether I like it or not (and I need to cross my fingers they are purebred). ACDs, it depends on type/lines for me.

    My problem with NOT showing conformation is people that produce stuff like this:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And call them ACDs. And breed from them. I would bet my right arm they are crossbred, but they are nowhere close to being an acceptable ACD appearance-wise IMO.
     
  5. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    I don't really have a preference. I think it all depends on the breed, and what the dogs being bred are like.

    Then again, hopeful-next-dog is a breed I'd never thought I'd chose... but I want a puppy from a certain dog because I like that dog, if that makes sense :lol-sign:
     
  6. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I don't think conformation showing has done dogs any favors at all.
     
  7. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    It just doesn't matter to me. I want the kind of dog that I want. I don't really care about success in the conformation ring. I only care about sound structure and reasonable breed type - I don't care if they have enough type to finish an AKC CH, I just want them to be recognizable as their breed.

    I used to paint anybody that showed their breeding stock with the same broad brush but now that I actually know people who show, you realize they're as varied as any other group of people. There are people who realize that conformation is just another game to play with your dog, and not the end all be all of "preserving the breed". And then there are people who don't share such a reasonable attitude, LOL.

    Unless I wanted a companion breed, I can't imagine I'll ever buy from a breeder who's primary/only interest is conformation. I just highly doubt the dogs would line up to be what I want.

    I don't really buy that conformation showing necessary promotes sound structure either. That depends on the venue and the judge. I have seen dogs with extreme type and poor soundness defeat dogs that were much sounder but less extreme. There are also some breeds where I simply don't like the show type, even when it's not extreme. Aussies come to mind - I don't like the blocky-headed dogs with perfectly set ears, they just seem overdone to me. (I see this in a lot of breeds, they trend toward a generic "show dog" head piece, heavy-boned with an almost overly soft expression. It happens in Cardigans too.) Beautiful dogs but not what I think of when I think of an Aussie. But that doesn't make them bad dogs or bad Aussies, just not what I want.

    I have no problem going to a working-only breeder. I just also select working breeders who aim to produce dogs that can not only work, but have sound bodies and minds. I used to insist that if a breeder bred for work, sound minds and bodies would follow, but unfortunately, that's not always true. I can think of working BCs with horrible, weak angles that make me cringe when they jump, and with some super freaky temperaments. But they can and do move stock successfully everyday - and that's fine, for them, but it's not what I want in a dog.

    I've learned not to draw arbitrary lines in the sand anymore. Just get me the dog I want, LOL. Said dog isn't likely to come from show heavy or show only lines but whatever.
     
  8. momto8

    momto8 New Member

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    While waiting for my beezer puppy over the last 3 yrs my main intrest in this breed is performance. My plan with my puppy all along was lure coursing, rally and showing. Showing is just going to be fun for us , hit show here and there.
    I actually changed breeders, I love my first breeder and her bitch, but after her girl did not get preg yet again I decided with her blessing to look around. The litter I'm getting my boy from is all around great amazing coursing dogs, both great in the ring and dad even does rally. So in this breed I did and always will look for lines that can do it all!
     
  9. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    I show my dogs (obviously, we just finished up a long show weekend ;)) but next weekend they will be out working. I don't see why they're mutually exclusive- if you breed with working ability as a priority and also are careful about structure and breed type, you can choose the puppy that would be most suitable for the show ring. Of course, I'll admit, that is not the best way to get a *top* show dog, but for me, I enjoy showing so much that winning isn't that important.

    Of course there are some lines that are bred exclusively for show and probably won't be super talented working dogs, and there will be lines exclusively bred for working that would never finish championships. But I still maintain that there are some breeders that DO want to produce dogs who are successful in both.
     
  10. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

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    I chose banana cream pie because I don't think their mutually exclusive either. Cara is obviously a working bred dog who could never finish her CH, however there are some lines that can do it all. There will be a primarily show bred girlie who will be joining us shortly and I plan to try her on sheep. ;)
     
  11. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    Not voting, not in the mood for pie.

    I like and appreciate a good conformation dog, and do plan to show my guys. I think a border collie should look like a border collie, and being pretty is not a bad thing.

    But I also want titles on the other end, so work on that and appreciate working drive in a dog. I love to see a good working dog too. To be clear, fast dogs who spin 100 times on course, leave drool all over the course and bark in a screechy bark the whole time on two legs while on leash, I don't have any use for. Border collies are not supposed to be manic longhaired whippet mix type dogs with no 'off' switch. ;) No matter how fast they are in flyball.

    To those that comment that the show ring has 'ruined' a breed, keep in mind that it's often because the judge does not have any other choices to pick from when he has a lineup of dogs in the ring. They can't say 'sorry, don't like any of these dogs' and send them all home. Showing more working dogs might just start to change how the dogs are bred and selected, if there are more working style dogs actually IN the ring for the judges to place. ;) And for performance dogs, nothing like taking a pup into the ring to do nothing difficult, get lots of food and attention, and have fun before there's the pressure to perform in agility etc. where it's not as easy....
     
  12. BlackPuppy

    BlackPuppy Owned by Belgians

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    Others may disagree, but I have breeds that do both.

    Herders are good at everything! And if they look good, then that's even better. :)

    I don't hunt, so I have ignored that in my definition of "everything".

    But my dogs can do all the companion events, they herd, track, pull carts, therapy dogs, protection sports, doggie dance, and I know they can do things I haven't even thought of. They can also chase rabbits if that counts has hunting. ;)
     
  13. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I've occasionally fantasized about this being allowed.
     
  14. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    AKC isn't the only conformation venue you know. :p
     
  15. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    It is allowed. The judge can choose to withhold awards if they think there are no dogs worthy. It just isn't likely to get them very many judging assignments.

    I've never seen it done with multiple entries in a breed, but I've seen awards withheld in both AKC & UKC. And ironically, in neither case did I think it was the right choice. (one was a SBT that was a little bit undershot. It is a fault, but not a DQ, and I don't think it's the worst thing ever. The other was an Amstaff who was apparently just not bulky enough for the judge's taste.)
     
  16. ruffiangirl

    ruffiangirl New Member

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    I seen it happen once at a CKC (Canadian) with a Min Pin that simply should never have stepped foot in a show ring it's structure was so far off. Every show the dog had been to she was passed over so the owner started entering her in small shows hoping to get opposite (no clue why since there were no points) sex, but the judge that day excused her from the ring and withheld the ribbon!
     
  17. kady05

    kady05 Active Member

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    Yes they can, I've seen it done, in both AKC & UKC. I wish it was done MORE, actually!

    Yup. At the last UKC show I was at the judge excused the ENTIRE class of CH APBT's for "lack of merit". It was a nice group of dogs too.. apparently the judge didn't like one of the handlers, so they all lost. :rolleyes:

    Either way, it can, and is done.



    Anyway. I prefer a dog that can go from working events straight into the conformation ring. Which is why I love Sako and his breeder :) At the last show we were at we did weight pull, got his UWP, out to the lure coursing field to finish up his CA, then straight into the conformation ring. Love it.
     
  18. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    I'm working-side fan. Shows, meh, don't interest me much. Shows might interest me with a few breeds, but for the most part I prefer the working/possibly sport side for many, if not all breeds.

    This is very much O/T, so feel free to reply in PM if that would be better. Have you competed in USBCHA trials? How do your dogs do? And how do they fair in the conformation ring? I've not known any (I've heard of one, I believe) who were able to excel at both, so I'm curious what type of results you've had.
     
  19. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    I don't trial. I am fortunate enough to have a very close friend with a large ranch and her own sheep, we go out there every couple of weeks and work the dogs. Basically, I get to see how they're working, she gets free help around the ranch. Its a pretty nice set up. Before I was friends with her, it was hard for me to even find someone willing to let my dogs see sheep let alone help me train them, because Sadie is a Champion (well, now a Grand Champion) and so is her half brother Pirate who we were working at the time. We went to clinics, and when asked about their lineage I would just say "They go back to early ISDS lines" which is 100% true. Yes, they also have quite a few show champions and untitled dogs in their pedigrees, but realistically I am looking at the work that *they* as individuals can do. I work all of my breeding prospects, and have chose not to use stud dogs based on unsatisfactory working ability.

    Part of it is that I am honoring what our chosen respected breeders did before us. I chose to use British lines in our breeding program, which have always been a blend of ISDS and KC show lines, and a lot of my dog's ancestors were ISDS register on merit dogs from show lines. The breeding programs that my dogs stem from have always had both working ability and have shown in the breed ring. When I make breeding decisions, its not as simple as "working lines vs show lines"- and honestly I find it hilarious that people dumb it down like that- there is so much more to a Border Collie than that. My dogs are not just good at herding, and they're not just good show dogs, and they're not just good SAR dogs- the reason I love them is because they *are* talented in so many different disciplines.

    I accept the fact that my breeding program will never be "satisfactory" to the show enthusiasts or the working enthusiasts. I am ok with that, because I really, really adore my dogs. I love watching them work, and I love watching them move around a show ring. My goal is not to prove that I am a worthwhile breeder to those who are determined to be against me, but to provide people with a really awesome dog that will happily compete in a variety of sports.
     
  20. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    Me? I want nothing less than a die hard "all around dog" Nothing extreme on any end, perfect balance and versatility.
     

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