Central Asian Shepherd 100 trick pony

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by planet molosser, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. Tahla9999

    Tahla9999 Active Member

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    Ignoring the argumentative tone, I find this thread quite educational. Learn quite a lot. I love the video of a lab doing PP.:)
     
  2. GSDlover_4ever

    GSDlover_4ever New Member

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    The only issue I'm still (and have ONLY been) pushing are the two LIES she stated as fact. If she handled herself in a mature fashion and addressed my questions instead of getting defensive, speaking with a godly tone and pointing fingers, lieing saying that I discredited her breed, it all would have been over. SHE started this thread, bringing it up again.

    This has NOTHING to do with my breed vs her breed is better. Like stated countless times already, her breed is very well capable of guarding, not a doubt in my mind. Its about PM throwing around her misinformed opinions as FACT. I have not belittled her dogs OR her personally (unlike the insults she's thrown towards me).

    You cant train what is not there.

    Prey driven dogs bite with full calm hard grips, defense dogs use a frontal bite. (for the "herder" breeds, common PPD's GSD's, Mals) Like I said I dont know the LGD's and am not familiar with their style of protection, so I cannot speak for them (and never have).

    If those comments PM made where directed towards LGD's I couldnt and wouldnt be arguing right now as I have no right too, cause I have NO CLUE what makes those dogs tick. But she spoke for "my" type of protection dogs, and was incorrect.

    Now I am really done with this whole argument.
     
  3. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    I can train a dog to walk on its front paw or its back paws and they're not born with that talent. Nor is it an inborn ability! :popcorn:
     
  4. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    actually Izzy it is inborn. it's extremely common for hunting dogs to do after they chase an animal up a tree or some other high point. even moreso if the animal moves through the tree tops like squirrel & bear.
     
  5. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I can train a borzoi with field experience catching and eating small animals to tolerate chickens walking on him. Does that count? :p
     
  6. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    Yeah, there! Seriously, things a dog would never do instinctively can be trained into it.
     
  7. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    You refuse to answer any ? about your work in dogs outside ONE GSD,
    Please give me your background in dogs ?

    Youve ordered me to answer you -when I did which indicated you were off base.
    I ignored you i let you have last word something you learn with age.
    You ordered me again to answer. The questions you asked were so novice I was trying to NOT to embarass you. Yet you ordered me again.
    Then you want graciousness pls get a grip.
    We are not judged by our mistakes we are judged by how we correct .
    Here is what you asked and claimed I could NOt answer.
    PS I hate cutting and pasting it but with you . u seem to want my undivided attention,
    GSD lover asked
    "How can a dog with no protective instincts be trained to protect? I want to know how you put that drive INTO a dog. Then maybe we can get some Goldens and Labs into REAL protection work (not SCHUTZHUND)."
    Again and more direct: Most any breed of dog can be trained to protect if they have stability and are willing to be trained. Most breeds of dogs have natural protective instincts based on territory they percieve as theres. Some may call it self preservation , say say many dogs pack up like the wolf some believe they come from.
    You confuse drives with instincts most non typical guardian breeds do exhibit.
    Drives can be so variable depending the person posting their opinion it is worthless since it does not have a uniform accepted answer.
    If you ask any dog person the instinct is in most dogs in one form or another.
    Only when it is pronounced as a inherited quality and expected in the breed is emphasis is put on it.

    IVE seen many odd breeds do protection work. The higher the prey drive the more energy you get with the work thus the more FIGTH you can get from the dog on the sleeve or in some cases body work.
    The more training of control you put into most breeds he more you can venture into other areas of protection outside basic sleeve work.

    It is not natural for many breeds to HOLD on with a FULL grip since in real life it removes safety self preservation the dogs have.
    Plus they learn in general not to bite humans ,most dogs are kept as pets.
    And they are taught OUCH bite inhibition from puppy hood.
    So when they are offered a bite first time out and it is NOT real life, they dont take full mouth, 1st they dont like the taste of the sleeve, 2nd many dogs will remember humans are not predators even if they are strangers why should i hold on?
    PS dogs your comments about predator and prey are off for dogs as well.

    Dogs do not see humans as prey thus if they get hold you can NOT compare them to a Lion holding the throat of a gazelle,
    Prey drive as defined in dogs is NOT the same as the predator eating prey.
    PS my wolf did not see humans as prey as well and he did not have defense for the house or me . Horrible watch dog wolves another topic.

    Even CASD dogs a natural guardian as in born under natural wild conditions.
    Do NOT hold on to predators , other dogs in battle, or humans or even finishing prey drive the females exhibit who will catch rabbit bite shake release then eat .
    That is how they survive living with Cobras.
    No predator control dog wants to get into a battle by commiting their bite so far into anything that will result in a longer time they can get out of the way from a strike from the opponent or from the OTHER wolf coming from the rear. HOLDING on will KILL a guardian dog that does NOT life with humans and guns rigth behind them. ( this excludes catch dogs _With that said sadly some are trying to change breeds such as CAO CO and Kangal by mixing in Mastiff and Bulldogs to get better grips so they can fight them for a blood sport.

    You other comment about full mouth bites is a incorrect quote .
    I said without training the GSD is not always going to take a full mouth bite.
    And in many cases they nip from behind . Which is wrongly ID as aggressive when it is a herding behavior.
    Thank god most GSD born do not use full mouth bites and grip from puppies on.
    You base your opinions as stated dogs you seen take full bites as puppy.
    Yet you will not inform us who where how you have seen dogs outside your club
    Yep dogs in your club select for and bred for pp work and or SCH are not the topic nor was it ever.
    That account for less than 10 percent of the GSD USAj Population,
    Can you speak for the other 90?
     
  8. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Summer can walk on her back paws. :D

    This whole thing is silly.
     
  9. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    You have been asked to prove ONE lie. You can not.
    I have NOT lied and I can prove and have proved every point.
    YOU and OTHERS have had to LIE and MISS QUOTE ME.

    Last time you claimed i said something I did NOT
    You had to FINISH my sentence for me.
    My hubby of 20 yrs can figure that out Im sure u cant as well.
    I was ordered by you to answer your question I did many times
    And yet no responce like ohh maybe I miss understood.

    I asked you many times to tell me how you base the whole breed known as GSD on what work? you have done. and you REFUSE to answer.

    My work is a open book i dont hide my life work.
    Ive been looking for old old pics of my k 9 partners in my uniform.
    Calling my family for help since all I have is digital here and lets just say my work with GSD predates computers and digi cameras by decadesj.

    PS other have posted same type of comments about GSD .
    You ignored them why? cause they are not a target like a breeder is.
    Breeders of one breed are simply never allowed to state observations and or facts on other breeds or even other reps of the breed. It is deemed competition. Only pet owners are entitled to chat.
     
  10. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

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    I think We should just let all these thread die out.

    Lets just ALL agree That GSD's are worthless in the working world and CAS dogs Can do it all. And Have no faults :D
     
  11. Amstaffer

    Amstaffer New Member

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    I don't think that was her message. I think GSDs are probably the best "Jack of all Trades". I think a logical argument can be made that there isn't anything a GSD can't do and do well.

    I however could argue (and I have heard serious Schutzhund handlers say this) that the GSD isn't the best at any thing. There are some many specialized breeds out there how can a J.O.T. The will never be the best Tracker, Retriever, Guardian, Herder etc but they can do them all.

    Comparing a GSD to a CAS in guarding to me is like comparing a GSD to a Border Collie in herding. You are not saying that a GSD can't guard but you really can't say that as a whole a GSD can hope to keep up with the average BC while herding.
     
  12. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Ok looking for Goldens doing bite work and found this
    And was blown away check out this Golden S and R dog check out the Drive.
    The one doing the bite is a mix with no GSD in it.

    BUT WOW
    YouTube - Dog Training: Lisa Myers of SouthJersey SMS w/ Sampson&Rocky

    Airedale doing PP work
    YouTube - Airedale 110+ yard send
    Airedale SCH ! 89 points
    YouTube - Airedale SchH1 Protection

    Teaching cindy how to protect from personal attack Border collie.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMtBnEvKB

    how to train a yorkie to protect starts with tug work (like i said it all starts here)
    YouTube - Yorkshire Terrier - Obedience Training - Protection Training

    Boston terrier doing protection work
    YouTube - Protection Boston.wmv
    Cat protects owner.
    YouTube - Cat Tries To Save Owner From Attempted Theft

    Can we put to rest that dogs not bred for guarding can be taught to guard.
     
  13. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Here are FACTS of what I said about GSD. Istead of assuming why dont you go to my profile click stats click posts and go to pg 6 fwd. I did not ever make the CAS the best dog. I said the GSD was ........

    THis thread should read GOOD watch dogs .NO better than the GSD and u can get a long coated one.. Good pet and family dog Newfie will bark and great at swimming

    here is me saying another breed is a good watch dog
    Number one watch dog in the cities were Taco bell dogs

    I then went on and on about 9 other breeds being great and was asked many questions that i answered NEVER pimping the CAS. Most of the posts had NO CAS talk .Until the war came.

    3 Pages into guardian thread GSD lover made statements that were WRONG about LGDS
    and were WRONG about GSD as well. The topic was NOT Cas. CAS were not spoke of since i nixed it on page 1 . She went into auto defense about good gsds vs the breed as a whole.

    Here is page 1 one CAS info when I was invited to the thread. I was online only to do a rescue tranport for chaz. i advised NO for CAS.
    http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t104661/

    Here is page 2 general chat all breeds .
    http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t104661-2/

    Here is GSD wrong assumptions on LGDS exc maybe a pry.
    http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t104661-3/

    NOTe the thread poster was chating all the way thru and was happy with learning.

    So the only ones having a issue was that a thread entitled guardian dogs did NOT revolve around the GSD.
     
  14. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Something I wrote about the CAS long ago.
    Even some things need updating this is a base.
    In addiion renee wants to find the footage of my 1st TV appearance OLN in which I tell the WORLD the CAS is not for everyone and explain why the GSD is better.
    IVe done over 8 TV appearances including Oxygen network never ever pimped the CAS .
    So much so the millers and yarders in my breed flipped out when I told people do not get one .
    10 Reasons Not To Own the Breed.A 1. Barking This Breed are nocturnal barkers. Females bark much more than males.
    This is a big problem for people who keep dogs in yards at nite... vs in home
    Did you know your town could fine you ,if your dog barks for more than 15 minutes during certain times?

    2. Shedding. Once a Year they blow a coat that is politely called a FUR STORM.

    3. Size. Males 100-150-lbs allot of dog to take care of. My males don't fit in a normal size car. Allot of dog to have around family members they may not understand BIG Dog Mentality.

    4. Fencing.Secured Fencing this breed needs Minimum 6 foot chain link , stockade ,field fencing with hot wire. Underground, 4ft,split rail Simply is NOT good enough

    5. Bad Start. Founded in sheer numbers in 1995 by a later convicted Puppymiller Anna Frumina.

    Many dogs were bred by the hundreds with no health, or quality control ( some mutts sold as Purebreds). Thus the vast majority of people in this breed are backyard breeders set up by her .

    6 Commitment- Are you ready for the 10 plus year commitment for this breed. Money ?, fencing time? Not for the Novice dog owner , Above Average dog for above Average owner.

    7. Hip Dysphasia is Genetic BIG Dog inherited disease .
    All Parents must be screened & info passed on to buyers.

    8 Behavior: Severe difference in temperaments due to huge variance in breed types in this breed..

    Traditional Livestock Nomadic lines great family dogs for USA. predicable, Lives well in alpha Packs.

    New Factory bred created dog fighting lines. Due to BSL not great for USA, Unpredictable ,

    Solitary kennel life dogs bred from factory fighting lines are not suitable for US Families.

    Don't judge the whole breed by the 1 type. VISIT your Breeder!!

    But if you don't have the patience to learn the difference between the good the bad & the UGLY in this breed .
    Please do NOT buy this breed. Not easily trainable for high level of Obedience.9. Digging . Like flower beds or nice lawns. No more this breed loves to DIG

    10. The fact that I even had to put this page up shows you we are not doing so good.

    1. Lack of Screening of Hip Dysphasia and any other diseases. ACL Repairs & HD Surgery can cost thousands.

    2. Forging of Paper Work. No DNA or Tattoo Or Mircochipping is most common, or not matching.

    3. Not responsible for the dog if is only a broker. They can NOT be sued if the dog is NOT bred by them.

    4. Lack of socialization. Any breeder that sells puppies to a middle man is NOT a breeder at all. Thus puppies are Not given the crucial socialization at a time in their life they need it most.

    Gamble -Buying from a Broker is like pulling the lever of slots see what you get.

    6. BIG HIGH expense for shipping due to Euro dollar can be more than the pup itself.

    What happens if the dog needs to go back? If it cost $500-$1,000 to ship a 8 weeks old puppy .

    How much will it cost to ship a 1 Year old 130lb dog that you do not want any more.

    7. Lack of enforceable guarantee's- How will you sue someone for a sick pup in Europe?

    8. Help ? A breeder should be available to you 24-7. Where will the broker/bad breeder be when the dog gets sick?

    Do they even give you a address or a telephone that you can speak to a English speaking person?

    9. What happens when the unexpected hits home? Will you ship the dog back to a breeder you do not trust? So far away?

    10. Due to in decrease of working breeders & increase of show - fighting breeders . How safe will your family & dogs be ??
     
  15. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    Airedales were used as police dogs for many years- seeing a video of them is no surprise.

    I am probably lying though, seeing as I'm not just a liar, but a pathological one.
     
  16. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Now you have a great day you hear.
    I am going to meet a new GSD next week a sire
    I mentioned to todays caller I am in desparate need of a herder till the fence is fixed.
    So if I like the stud I may be getting a boomerang dog that did not do well as a pet and wants a job. NO more chasing sheep in my undies. Hooray.
    We are trying him out next week.
    Wow cant believe the breed "i hate: lol what a joke may be back to help me.

    Thanks to this thread I am being offered a chance to get a great GSD for herding.

    THANKS GUYS >>>>>>>>>>>
     
  17. pitbullpony

    pitbullpony BSL Can Be Beaten

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    I thought I would wade in here just for a little bit; to mention one thing that I found a little off.

    The video with Bobo and his bite work -- yes, absolutely yes; he wouldn't make a SchH dog at the stage he is at in the video. He bites "shallow", "regrips" and backs off the decoy. All very typical for the breed. Bobo doesn't back from the decoy because he's unsure; he's hoping to lure him in -- and yeah; I know everyone says their dog does that; unfortunately for the decoy; the CAS likes to fight that way. You'll notice during some of the video; Bobo is tugging hard on the sleeve; not because he wants to win the sleeve; although his handler has done an amazing job convincing him of that; but because he'd like to bite something real, they are a soft underbelly kind of dog. Frabo has actually done a lot of work to get him to hold the sleeve. As Dan noticed; that's counter to what the breed is all about; they are supposed to be about the man; not the equipment.

    Bernhard thinks they are su-per guard dogs; he boards one at his facility in Germany. He was the second person to agitate my bitch and did a little spiel about the breed to the other people at the seminar. I'm sure most of the attendees were a little taken aback when they saw me bring the big hairy out of the car; but they understood what she was all about after she lit up that day. He did a wonderful job cementing in her head; our alert command.

    I however was remiss in my training; since she shows no interest in the sleeve and will go over the sleeve and aim for the decoy's head; and she will spit the sleeve in the air; come down and go up again. Nasty for the decoy; so we don't get to play anymore.
     
  18. showluver

    showluver New Member

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    I usually go to the CCKC, Ravenna Ohio shows that are held 3 times a year. But this last weekend (Labor day weekend) we attended the Punxsutawney PA show. That is where I met my first CAS.
     

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