Caucasian Ovcharka

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by StephyMei1112, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    The dog is an equal - but I've had alot of bfs...
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    One of the most sumptuous looking dogs in existence...but indeed also one of the most primitive and fierce. I like the fact that they have not been modified or monkeyed around with by mankind (for the most part - I'm not sure if they were bred a different manner for the Red Army back in that period).

    To everyone here: I AM NOT GETTING A CO FOR MY NEXT DOG!! NOT FOR AT LEAST 15 YEARS AND WITH A HELL OF ALOT MORE EXPERIENCE! This is just to satisfy my curiosity and awe with them for now...

    I know alot of LGD's can be really typical as puppies and social and funny - but around 18 - 24 months something just goes off in them and they start showing DA/their guardian side starts emerging. I was wondering about Ovcharka's as puppies - and if their guard instincts kick in at a very early age or if they grow out of their puppyhood earlier than other dogs.

    Also, I've heard alot of mixed info about this - are they OK if properly trained and socialized with strangers just passing by them and such? Like not getting up in their faces or anything but like just out on a walk etc I think they are supposed to be aloof and indifferent with cue from their handler and said passer by minding their own f&cking business and not getting in either the owner or dog's face.

    [​IMG]

    Sh!t that's gorgeous...<333

    My heart is totally the Kuvasz's - but this beast is just magnificent...
     
  2. Barb04

    Barb04 Love my pets Staff Member

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    If you type in Caucasian in the "search" box in this section, you will find lots of threads about the breed.
     
  3. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Dmitri routinely walked his in public, much like I do Kharma, but he (and I) have done EXTENSIVE socialization.

    These dogs are incredibly intelligent, adaptable and mentally flexible. They had to be, to survive and thrive in their native environments.
     
  4. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    I've looked at the CAO seriously, but I don't think I could handle the CO. I do prefer the looks of the CAO as well.
     
  5. cliffdog

    cliffdog New Member

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    I'm more of a CAO person myself but I don't see them as being much more easily handled than a CO, if you get a proper CAO.

    I have never met a CO puppy but speaking generally, very large breeds tend to be slower to mature.
     
  6. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    Wellll, the difference to me was, when I met the CAO's, the owner was there, told them to leave it, and the dogs ignored me as not a threat.

    When I met some CO's, the owner wouldn't allow me to meet them because of the fact that they'd probably bite me.

    I prefer to meet the parents (at least the dam) of prospective puppies. Now, it's entirely possible that the CAO's were incorrect, or the CO's weren't training properly, but it'll be many years and a taller fence later before I even think of a CAO
     
  7. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Out of the few of these dogs that I've met, one was trained and socialized enough to be "street safe" and not just tunnel vision on how much they hated the people/other animals walking around.

    He was completely different off of his property - actually rather friendly and curious. I could touch him off of his property and he loved it when I scritched his earholes. :p On his property you could tell he took his job of guarding it quite seriously. Still, he had an astounding amount of impulse control and was socialized very well. He didn't perceive completely benign actions as a threat, and would peacefully accept the presence of visitors if they were accompanied by his owner.

    The owner of that particular dog was weird, though. His training methods were pretty harsh (though considering the size of the dog vs the size of the man, maybe not so bad) and he was militant about being the boss of the dog. He'd always say "the dog is the boss when I'm gone". The dog seemed to really trust and want to work for the guy despite the "training".

    I prefer COs to CAOs but probably won't ever have either. Awesome dogs, just not for me unless I need a farm or my estate very well protected.
     
  8. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    Renee,

    Did Dimitri live with his Caucasian in a urban environment? Like a city or something? Just wondering.

    "Correct" Caucasians and their Central Asian cousins indeed need a extremely firm hand - these dogs are REAL dogs - they can't be allowed to get out of hand; consequences can be dangerous to say the least.

    As long as it works for the dog and it's human and isn't inhumane and neither one of them is being damaged/harmed by the methods - I think it's fine. I talked to a Russian man with a CAS that lives a few blocks down from me - he's worked with guard dogs all his life and has owned a Caucasian O before in the old country; We chatted about training and I explained progressive reinforcement to him (dog doesn't want to do something - dog doesn't have to do it) - he laughed out loud and put it quite succinctly:

    "Well, if it works for the dog - sure. But these dogs need to know who is the boss right away; no questions, no doubts. That's that. You let a CO think he's in charge as a puppy - it's huge trouble later on."

    So yeah - everyone I think should do what their dog responds best to. Who are we to judge if it appears harsh/tough? There's not a single general guideline that absolutely ALL dogs will respond to fabulously.

    I do want one though - someday, sooner than later hopefully....
     
  9. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    Sh*t. What the heck do I have living in my house then? I hope I didn't get ripped off and get not-real dogs.
     
  10. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Haha you missed our 'only working dogs are real dogs' thread several years back. *cuddles the fake dog asleep on my couch*
     
  11. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    I never trust someone who says a dog has to have a "firm hand". Firm rules, boundaries, etc...sure, but firm hand does not imply anything good to me. Semantics maybe but ...

    and yeah, I hate the "real dog" thing
     
  12. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I would've loved that thread since it seems that my sub-par dogs are obviously evidence that I'm a sub-par trainer. Not what I see in this thread but a general tone.
     
  13. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Just to be clear on this, positive reinforcement is NOT permissive. ;) Many people get it mixed up, and many people do it "wrong" and are very permissive which isn't effective unless your dog is a marshmallow schmoo. I've never once laid a finger on a dog to correct it, but I've never let them have their way either. It requires a lot of intense managing of a puppy's surroundings as they are proofed in different situations with escalating distractions to work without having to do corrections. I like the results though, as they come out of it oozing with confidence and pretty bombproof, with deep trust and respect between us (have done two service dogs this way).

    NILIF is a great positive way of establishing who's in control of resources without delivering aversives to the dog. When my dogs are puppies, their ration of food for the day goes into my pocket and they have to earn it. Every. Single. Kibble. Kaia never had teenage brainfarts, but Strider had to go back to earning his individual kibbles when he hit 7 or 8 months. lol.

    That being said, sometimes when a dog is having a reactive moment and it's something you haven't proofed against, you just do whatever has to be done to make them stop and remove them from the situation. Then don't put them back in until they're proofed against it so it doesn't happen again. That I don't see as training. It's more crisis management. You stop your dog from biting someone/another dog/chasing stock/cars/etc. and take measures to make sure it never happens again. If that means using a leash pop or choking it off another dog, or whatever, you do what you have to to keep everyone safe. I don't really expect most dogs to be learning when they're that amped up though. The training comes later after they've calmed down and out of the situation.
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    It was a wonderful thread. One of my all time favorites.
     
  15. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    This x100
     
  16. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Ah... I’ll be sure to tell my friend who owns several CAS, breeds them and is a *gasp* force free trainer, that her dogs are going to take over and she’s going to be in huge trouble.

    Sigh....
     
  17. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I think if you get a CO with the attitude they need a firm hand and are 'real' dogs I don't want to live anywhere near you as you and your dog will likely be the terror of the neighbourhood!

    Punishement, or overly harsh "I-am-the-boss" type training will almost definitely bite you in the butt, litteraly with a dog like this. You need to train with firm rules and a firm understanding of what is accepted and what isn't, you need a dog who respects you and is obedient. None of that requires a firm hand. It requires an active brain where you out think the dog vs over power him/her.
     
  18. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    If my dog is fake, then she shouldn't poop, right?
     
  19. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Only if it looks like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Picklepaige

    Picklepaige Active Member

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    ...is it bad that the first thing I thought was "that looks delicious."
     

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