Can you tell me if I did the right thing?

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by StephyMei1112, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I would not physically hurt a dog ever. Your trainer sounds like she's trying to get you to use negative punishment... remove yourself, by tethering her to a pole, and she'll stop reacting and calm down because she wants you to return. It's reasonable enough and would work for some dogs I'm sure. But it's obviously not working for your pup if she continued doing it for 30 minutes!

    Honestly, I'd try a few different methods, find one that works for her, and consistently apply it. I fostered a Pit Bull puppy who got crazy zoomies on walks. When he started them, I restricted him to my left side and jogged down the street with him. He got his burst of energy out without tangling me up, mouthing me, or going nuts. His focus was redirected to jogging with me instead of being a brat.

    Do you have a yard? Does she only go into this frenzy on walks? If so, I'd exercise her thoroughly in the yard before going on a walk. A tired puppy is much easier to train and work with. It sounds like she's just a hyper puppy who gets excited and wants to RUN. She's frustrated by not being able to stretch her legs. That's just what it sounds like to me. I'd be very hesitant to correct her, as she could redirect on you in that excited state, and that would be terrible.
     
  2. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    This!

    Also, it sounds to me like she's trying to zoomie, but then can't so she's getting frustrated and turning to the biting to try and get her way. Let her get her way, and she'll keep at it.
     
  3. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    Ok, back from walk - she went into a "mini" fit - not nearly as bad as last night though thankfully. I tried the short leash jogging thing - she just sort of skipped along and kept trying to jump up at me and mouthed two to three times.

    And she does get to go out in the yard and run abit prior to our walks, I usually kept it to 15 minutes then we go on our way - I'll let it go for abit longer and let her really get her to finish everything she needs to do offleash - well, offleash.

    Excellent advice Gonzo and thanks very very much! Yes indeed only on walks...

    I think blowing off her excess steam in the yard for abit longer will help alot - but will give the jogging thing/redirection to a toy etc techniques another crack too.

    Eh, my original trainer was very positive based. The only admonishment/correction I've ever seen her give a dog is ignoring it (not saying I think she should be hurting or being forceful with dogs but just a fact about what I've seen from her in classes). New trainer has had many recommendations from local people and has had ALOT of experience - she specializes in aggression and reliable obedience and deals in positive based/balanced training. Sounds good so far - and should work out better too as she has had experience with guardy type dogs previously
     
  4. Kaydee

    Kaydee Guest

    No, not all the time...some people get past all kinds of stuff. I used to live in a state where they allowed corporal punishment in the public schools. But when people would come up in support of it like " My Pappy switched us when we got outta line and it made us better people"...I saw bitter between the lines...I dunno
     
  5. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    I was physically abused and never acted out on anybody. Your initial statement just seemed like you thought it always happened. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

    I hit/spank my dogs when I feel the need. They aren't any less because of it and they certainly aren't damaged. I just think the whole "OMG YOU SHOULD NEVAR HIT YOUR DOG EVARRRR YOU'RE A HORRIBLE PERSON IF YOU DO" is ridiculous. Not saying anything here did that, but yeah.
     
  6. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Stephy see if this video gives you some ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ealapRYpMQ&feature=plcp

    Obviously the dogs are calmer, than what you’re experiencing, but if you practiced in a moment of calm with your pup, it could be a good way to build a cue that when you step on the leash she needs to chill.

    I’m all about impulse control type exercises for young wild ones :) And this is a good one. If you haven’t already, also look in to things like doggy zen (or “its yer choiceâ€), go crazy freeze, and crate games. All of this is about building impulse control in young dogs. (Works for old dogs too.) Its not related to this specific zoomie problem, but building impulse control in a separate area will spill over in to all areas where the dog need to learn to control herself.

    HTH :)
     
  7. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    I think you have a LOT of learning to do if you want to be a trainer yet think its ok to hit your dogs when you feel the need.
     
  8. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    I can't watch the vid because my net is kinda iffy and I don't want to push my luck lol.

    But this part is excellent advice!
     
  9. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    Trust me, I know the aversive effects it can cause. I don't BEAT my dogs. But I do smack their noses when it is needed and/or warranted. And if you want to consider me ignorant because of that, you go right on ahead. But I will do what works for me, and if you want to judge me because of that, go right on ahead.
     
  10. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    Daneified, thanks alot too! it looks great - we'll need to take it few steps at a time though as Kat is still quite, erm, wild LOL and totally impulse control is something that I absolutely want to implement in her training regimes.

    A note about the physical punishment/abuse stuff;

    I was hit, smacked around and kicked quite alot during my upbringing - personally I have to say I would have preferred understanding what it was that I did that was undesirable rather than just having cans of whoopass opened up on me randomly - which was what happened. But I haven't "lashed" out at anyone physically ever either. I'm for discipline not punishment - especially in dogs/pets.

    I think in general hitting isn't a good idea at all - I understand everyone has a limit of course and puppies can aggravate it quite abit which can result in incidents of hitting (hopefully that do not reoccur after); but it shouldn't be actively practiced/made a routine of IMO. Just saying.

    The closest thing to hitting Kat has been subjected to was a swat across the face with a envelope once after she chewed through a friend's television set wire when we weren't supervising her. She wasn't phased by it at all....she just sat there grinning like a happy idiot :rofl1:
     
  11. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    And again, it's not about IF it works. It's about WHY it works and the possible repersussions of the action. I have never met an aversive or punishment based trainer who would be ok with you hitting your dog.

    And sorry OP as this has gotten derailed. There is a lot of great advice in the thread though.
     
  12. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I enthusiastically second this.
     
  13. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    I agree with this post. I do not wildly just smack my dogs, which seems to be the way this is being interpreted...

    I smack to show bad behavior, and then mark and reward good behavior immediately after. I show them what they should be doing instead, every time.


    I do know why it CAN work. I know when not applied correctly, it can cause a dog to repress certain behaviors out of fear and ruin relationship and cause backlash later. That is NOT what I do with my dogs. Let me give an example...

    If my RR were to crawl onto bed and not listen to vocal corrections, I pop his nose, put him on the floor, and then reward him. Then I ask him onto the bed, tell him down, and reward him for listening. I never correct bad behavior without also rewarding good ones. Always replace bad behavior with good and teach them what they SHOULD be doing.
     
  14. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Again, every aversive trainer I have worked with or talked to would be aghast st you usin your hands, at you hitting. The correction should not be associated With YOU
     
  15. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    I don't agree with that, but then again no two trainers agree on everything.
     
  16. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I agree so much with this... I'm not going to claim that punishments do not work to suppress the behavior. But they often fail to address the causation behind that behavior, and punishments do not come without risks. When you weigh the benefits of punishment with the possibility of WORSE reprecussions, it's just not worth it, to me.

    Danefield, super good post!!! Puppy zen is such a good idea for any puppy.
     
  17. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    But why pop him on his nose? Why not just skip that step, and just put him on the floor?
     
  18. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    Because he physically resists me and then tries to force his way up again. I'm not as strong as my RR is. Lol. He only pays attention to me when I pop him. And guess what? No bad effects.
     
  19. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Are you trying to teach him "off" or to not get on the bed?
     
  20. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    Off.

    Lol, please PM me. I reeeeeally don't want this thread to derail in attempts to teach me how to train my dog. No offense or disrespect meant. Just don't like things getting so personal, if that makes sense?
     

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