Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by SpringerLover, Nov 23, 2012.
I can't stop laughing at jeans and the DNA profiling misunderstandings.
I'm personally good with people choosing to breed a dog because it's good at real work. It's harder in a breed like mine, which really doesn't have real work anymore, so sport is the only way to see whether the dog is functional at all. Still, the first breeding I did, I chose to breed my bitch because she had really, really good structure. She had some titles, too, but those weren't much of a factor in my decision, except in that working towards them gave me a chance to see what a great worker she was. The biggest thing for me, though, was the structure. I saw how poor structure was on so many others of the breed, and decided my girl deserved to reproduce herself.
My borzois eat coyotes. That to me is a lot more meaningful than having a lure coursing title.
But, for all my puppy buyers or anyone else knows I could just make it up. Anyone could say their dog has killed X number of coyotes. How do you know if they're being honest?
Titles were made to be arbitrary proof of a dogs' athleticism/obedience ability, etc. It's really hard and costly to fake a title. It's not the same as a regular job, but it's something that can be proved if you're not able to see the dogs work with your own eyes and are considering using them in your lines or getting a puppy from those lines.
And DNA health testing =/= breed type testing. Yes breed typing by DNA is ridiculous and dumb. DNA health testing looks for very specific genes for specific diseases. For about $60 I can have my borzois tested to see if they carry the gene for degenerative myelopathy, a debilitating disease of the spinal cord that paralyzes the hind end. If my dog is a carrier, I can then test a potential mate and make sure my dog is bred to a non carrier so no affected puppies are produced. If my dog is clear, then they become more valuable as breeding stock for other people with affected or carrier dogs. Several tests exist for various genetic diseases.
How are you able to find people who want to use your dogs' semen if you aren't titling or health testing them? Frozen semen is really expensive to use. It cost us about $2000 just to get my girl pregnant. I wouldn't be willing to pay that for stuff from a dog with no proof of being able to work behind him and no indication of how healthy the puppies would be.
dogs are generally over represented & bitches under represented in the genepool. if a dog is particularly prepotent he may be overused to the point of bottlenecking the breed, for example elhew in english pointers. it doesn't matter if it's show, PP or hunting a really good dog will almost always get overbred even on mediocre bitches. regardless of the words we say, more often than not, a stack of ribbons or litter after litter of SCH 3 or GR NT CH will win out over diversity. so a breeder that does care needs to be free to do the right thing w/o fear disciplinary action. and yeah for some breeds one litter is a big impact but for others 4 won't begin to protect genetic diversity.
DNA profiles are for proof of parentage. You can also do specific tests like the DM mentioned above.
IMO anybody who breeds a bitch more than 4 times is a BYB or a commercial breeder and not somebody interested in the health of a breed. Move on and keep a female puppy if you want to breed more. It doesn't matter to me if the litter is 2 puppies or 11.
I find numbers to be extremely limiting. I have a breeder in mind who used his bitch 3 time and I consider him leaning towards BYB, I also can't say that a 5th litter would be the worst thing in the world (assuming being a byb is) from a good bitch.
Then again I have never sought a breeder who's a member of a parent club, I doubt I ever will. I find them interesting but greatly limiting and unrealistic.
Here's a few random thoughts, I don't want to try to quote everyone.
I have thought about breeding and Beau was initially bought to breed. Currently the only breed I would feel comfortable breeding is papillons. I doubt I will actually ever breed dogs but sometimes feel like I should as there is a lot of room to improve in the breed and really no one is breeding papillons the way I'd like to see them. I feel like I could do a very nice job but I also have zero desire to deal with the politics. In papillons unless you keep yourself to a very few dogs you will end up having to make some difficult choices about health testing in particular. It's just not done as well as I like. I'm not sure I would be bold enough to deal with the BS. I also don't know if I could deal with showing conformation again but trying to get very far without showing would be very difficult.
Summer was bred prior to me buying her but unfortunately her two litters were not successful. The more papillons I meet the more I wish her litter had survived. She's one of the best papillons I've met. Not exactly the prettiest, but I have had a few handlers tell me she's finishable. Temperament and health wise she's been amazing.
Also, as far as age goes, I know several paps that have been bred at age 8 for their last litter and it's just fine. But these same dogs ended up living past 15 or 16 years old. I have no problem with that.
Physical stress on the body being an issue, bred at 8 or 9 for the last litter is a different story than for a first litter, from what I understand. I would be interested in alternative facts or musing though.
Can you elaborate on this?
It's just that, I find parent clubs ideal in the writings but in action I find them to be limiting and disallowing of the essential case by case requirements when discussing breeding, for the best of the breed.
My experience stems from working for two breeders, being friends with several. I myself do not belong to one, there may be a chance to be pleasantly surprised out there but disallowances or lack of ranges of numbers is not awe-inspiring for me.
Most breed clubs really don't do much to restrict their members breeding practices. There may be a COE that makes such suggestions, but most breed clubs don't enforce them. Some do, but it's generally more hassle than a volunteer organization can handle.
Service dog certificate? There is no certification in the US.