Breeding out DA

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by HayleyMarie, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I guess this is the part of your post that I keep coming back to. You don't want that. So. What.

    I don't want that. I want as little possibility of dog aggression that I can find. I don't like it, I don't want to deal with it and it's not ideal for me, my life or the rest of my dogs. But, that doesn't matter.

    Like has already been said, it's not bred for. It's a by product of breeding for the other traits that make them what they are. Are some dogs that have all those traits stone cold? Yes. Are most of them? Not at all. And to try and eradicate it from the breed would mean eliminating so many dogs that are exemplary examples of the breed just because if given a chance they would like another dog in their face. One of the biggest issues in so many dog breeds today is a small gene pool and you're asking that this breed have that done to them on an extreme scale.

    Dog aggression is a reality of the breed and one that the majority of their owners understand, respect and expect from them so I guess I don't understand why if they are all happy with how their dogs are they should have to change it to fit your ideals
     
  2. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    :hail:
     
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I also don't think there is any shame or harm in just saying "I don't like/can't handle this specific trait in the breed, so I am going to look at a breed that suits my needs/wants better."
    I got a lot of slack recently because of my breed choices for service dogs and breeds I over-looked because of certain breed traits (A biggie being dog aggression) and just being honest with the fact that no, it's not something I WANT to deal with. It just isn't.

    It's not an insult to the breed, breeders or those who own/love an animal of this breed.. it's just a simple fact.
    but some people (not so much here) get so OFFENDED by the very idea of somebody dismissing the breed that they love that I feel like sometimes.. the message comes across as..
    "Wow I cant believe you would dismiss all these super dooper AMAZING things about my breed because of that one trait.Well my breed is awesome and that trait gives my breed x,y,z and I love that trait and if you can't handle that then you suck! Go get one of those soft boring dogs you soft boring person!"
    instead of.. "CONGRATS TO YOU for doing your research and realizing that x, y, z is a breed trait, and while not ALL dogs have it... It is a possibility that, if you want a dog of this breed, you should be ready to deal with it. and If you aren't, then good luck finding a breed that suits your needs better!"

    and I hear it time and again...
    "I don't want a husky because they need a lot of exercise and jump fences"

    "My husky doesn't need that much exercise! My husky only gets walked twice a day! And you know what?! Huskies need exercise because they are so smart! All that stamina also makes them great at doing laundry and curing cancer, so if you want a lazy dog than go ahead you lazy doodoo head! and my dog NEVER EVER jumps any fences because I watch him when he is in the yard and if you don't want YOUR DOG when he is in the yard than you suck and should get a hamster instead!"

    lol slightly exaggerated.. but still..

    Saying that you don't want a DA breed =/= you not liking DA breed or thinking they are lesser for being potentially DA
     
  4. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Ooh Love your reply Fran, they are always so colorful.

    I'm kinnda in that boat right now. I just rescued a Pit bullX Tosa Inu. She is a freaking adorable good puppy, but that puppy could grow up to be very DA. Im not ready to deal with Crating and rotating such a big dog and a little dog. Its too much of a risk. So the plan is to get her healthy and find her a home.

    She could grow up to be great with other dogs, but its not the risk Im willing to take, without knowing her background and the parents. But I have nothing against breeds that are DA, heck Teagan is a snarky little Beotch.

    And my next breed is going to be a SSA breed.
     
  5. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    Wow... I don't know why my posts are being picked at and attacked with such rudeness. :(

    I am not in control of the breeding of all APBTs, nor am I going to slander anyone for breeding DA dogs. I might get an APBT in the future, and I'm going to a breeder who breeds for stable, dog-friendly stock that is exemplary in every other aspect. Of course I would keep my puppy if he turned out DA, but I'd much rather everything is done to prevent that. That is my opinion. It would benefit the breed as far as I am concerned, and this thread is about opinions. I've fostered several Pit Bull puppies from very questionable parents... all of them, as adults now, are 100% dog friendly, thankfully. I'm friends with many other foster parents who have gotten dogs back a year later, or worse, those dogs have been PTS because they developed dog aggression. With a dog whose reputation is in shambles, where the majority of breeders are BYBs at best, I do feel that it's in the best interest of the breed as a whole to breed dog/human friendly dogs. I know so many amazing, drivey, intense working APBTs with the perfect personality for the breed who are very reliable with other dogs... I'm sure their owners wouldn't appreciate being told that their dogs aren't as drivey or don't have that "spark" because they aren't DA.
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Here is a question.. IS there a breeder who breeds nice correct APBT with appropriate drive where they are all dog friendly (like labs)? Or is this a theoretical breeder?

    I ask because every breeder of super dog friendly JRTs I know (not many, mostly bybs) all have dogs with little to no drive. The super dog friendly rescues I have had have coincidentally had 0 prey drive.
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I know of 1 APBT breeder who breeds relatively dog tolerant dogs for sports like IPO,WP, & agility. That said my friends dog from there is still DR.

    Honestly fostering "might be" pit bulls and buying a "is for sure" pit bull is a different world.

    I wish you luck in your searches but encourage you to seek certain amstaf or UKC show lines. Avoid anything adba and gamey looking.

    The higher drive the more likelihood for prey and fight issues.

    I'd look for show or pet lines to avoid as much DA as possible, or best yet I'd rescue an adult.
     
  8. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I don't really remember anyone saying that. All that is being said is that it isn't actively being bred for but if the entirety of the breed had it's DA dogs culled the amount of amazing bloodlines and dogs gone would be monumental and so very damaging to the breed.

    But, that's why there are options. If you don't like DA then find a different breed or go to one of the breeders that do cull for DA. But don't ask that everyone else have your hangups about DA. Because the majority of the APBT owners love their dogs exactly how they are.
     
  9. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Thank you.

    Why not rescue an adult with known temperament....puppies are a gamble, you never really know what you'll end up with.

    Tangent incoming.......And, why promote the breeding of watered-down dogs just because the general public can't handle them? This is reminiscent of the discussion here about "intense" GSDs and Mals. The general public should not own a Malinois, that is for **** sure. But that doesn't mean we should start breeding calm, laid-back Mals so that everyone can own their very own pointy-eared sewer rat.

    God, pretty soon all we're going to have is a bunch of Golden Retrievers in different fur suits that everyone can take to the dog park for social hour. :yikes:
     
  10. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Roflmao @ pointy eared sewer rat. I love this breed, an better yet I love owners like you. ;) you have to have a **** good sense of humor to own these dogs. (both breeds)
     
  11. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I think you are missing the point. I was thinking on this. Kat wasn't DA or even really DR and wow she had drive and spark. However her lines DO have DA and DR (like her mom...) The point is is that breeding for one trait often changes others. So the same things that make a sharp drivey dog can also make a sharp reactive dog.
     
  12. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Then you need to get out more and meet those types of Jrts, MY dogs are super friendly to people and to other dogs, jrts and non jrts and considering that my dogs have tons of drive and actually do hunt and hunt very well that blows that out of the water. Even Petie who is fear aggressive to strange large dogs when give a chance to meet those dogs...........is fine with them and does play with them. Now tell me just how much have you hunted with your dogs to be such an expert on drives and hunting? Ever actually have a dog do the job? Enter, locate and work quarry? and not a schooling where the sette is opened up and the dog can see day light? Doubtful
     
  13. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    I rofled HARD at pointy eared sewer rat. Knox will have a new nickname from now on as well.

    I generally agree with the sentiment that to take that away is to change the breed. And I would not be happy with a golden retriever in a pointy eared sewer rat body. :p

    Also, ado, those are some pretty strong words, but I would have to say from my experience with jrts in my area that the driver dogs are more prone to snarkyness and the ones that seem to love everyone are less drivey. Granted I'm sure these are all byb dogs, and dogs from the petstore, but still the point stands. Your dogs seem to be an anomaly amongst jrts. Every breeder website I've seen who is worth their salt strongly cautions against dog parks and warns that their dogs might be DA or DR to a degree. Not one has said their dogs gets along with every dog they meet if properly introduced.
     
  14. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    and to all the lovely golden retriever owners out there.. just chiming in to say that the golden temperament in itself is AWESOME for goldens. and just because some people prefer breeds with different temperament doesn't mean they don't like goldens or think that the temperament in itself is a bad thing

    Just throwing that out there because I know it sucks to kind of have your breed be used as an adjective/example of "incorrect" or "bad" temperaments and traits in these kinds of threads but really, it's not meant as a negative thing, just as a good example of a temperament that is the polar opposite of what certain breeds strive for/are described as.
    Not bad, just different :)

    Goldens are awesome
    and cute too
    [​IMG]
    Carry on
     
  15. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Great point Fran. My parents' had a Golden that was the most amazing dog ever. He was a therapy dog that made a lot of people's lives better.

    I just prefer a-hole dogs with the opposite of a Golden temperament. :D
     
  16. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    CD, why are those strong words? Those are valid questions, and please keep in mind that I have good reason to ask those questions when I know actually have a good idea what the answer is. Yes Jrts can be edgy but is that because of all the warnings and not breeding for good temperaments? I know a lot of breeders that have to be very careful with their dogs bc of DA, but I also happen to know that they don't give a fig about temperament either. So why can't you have both, high drive and no DA? It is possible.
     
  17. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    Hmm, just seemed a bit harsh. Text doesn't always transfer so well. But looking at the apbt you can have the most amazing temperament in a dog, one who would do anything you asked of it at all, and still have a dog who does not like other dogs whatsoever.

    I know it is entirely possible to have high drive and no DA, I know quite a few really nice Labradors who are not quite field lines but also not show that do hunt, and they are awesome lovely dogs (I don't care for their looks but that's me :p) and I myself have Knox who is frequently compared to Malinois in terms of drive at this point and he is perfectly capable of going to daycare and socializing with all manner of other dogs without issue. (Except JRTs actually lol, they all hate him with a passion for some reason. :p )
     
  18. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    CD, I can't comment on APBT, I don't own one. The ones I have known were nice dogs and were owned by good ppl and I know they were careful of the DA.
    Now Jrts, drives, hunting with them, breeding them, competing at countless jrt trials (often 2/3 trials each month, 10 hrs away) for many years and knowing so many of them and doing rescue with them, that is a different story. Knowing lines, researching, having excellent mentors, friends with a lot of breeders and working terrier people............and I also don't consider myself to be a working terrier breeder...........even with hunting several times a year for 12 yrs now (only missed a couple of years when I was sick) and hunting with every dog I have owned except for one. :)
     
  19. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    I think it's great when someone's dogs aren't DA and have all the qualities desired in the breed. However, if it's just a fluke, you can't really compare it to specifically, purposely breeding for DA to not be present. That distinction is important. I still haven't seen any valid reasoning or evidence of why breeding out DA is a good idea, or even that it's actually truly possible.
     
  20. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    The breeder my dog Zealand is from breeds cold dogs. I don't know if they are ABSOLUTELY, unequivocally dog friendly but they get along among themselves in situations that would cause fights between most APBTs (multiple dogs on a spring pole, fetching a stick, etc.) Her dogs are ADBA conformation champions, weight pull champions, and agility competitors (they just started agility, so I'm sure the titles will start rolling in lol) Her dogs also have a lot of drive in general... They are very active on the flirt pole and spring pole, and so far my dog from there has a ton of drive. He's still a puppy, so his level of DA is undetermined as of yet.

     

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