Breeding hounds for working. Question.

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Squishy22, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    I just recently moved to oklahoma and know a treeing walker coonhound breeder. I also know a black and tan coonhound breeder in Tennessee.

    These dogs are all bred for the sole purpose of hunting. Is it normal to not heath test these animals? Or breed to any standard? Seems like the norm around here.

    :confused:
     
  2. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    Though I strongly believe in health testing, I don't disagree always. The breeders *I* have heard of, do not health test but they aren't stupid, an unhealthy dog or one that isn't put together right won't work properly and they don't want to reproduce a dog who breaks down or has to be retired at an early age. They seem to breed to their "own" standard, and it works for them.

    As an example (not hunting related tho): I met a breeder of BCs who bred mostly for herding (I say mostly because of course he wanted good dogs mentally and physically). . . no health testing, no registration, yet their dogs were by far the best dogs I've seen. Same with a Stabij breeder, who he bred to help around his farm, looks were the last thing on his mind - just a dog who could do the work he required. Though he did let me know that he did prefer a solid black head ;)
     
  3. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

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    I think all breeders should health test. Just because a dog will work does not mean it is healthy.

    If you don't test, you don't know. Period.

    If you have the testing available to you, (which its available to everyone) you should be using it.
     
  4. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

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    I've seen this a lot with working herding breeders here. Looking at kelpie breeders and so far I've only found one that did any health screening, and that was hips. There is only 1 really significant health issue with kelpies and that is PRA, so why not be testing eyes?
    I've read a lot that its only the bench kelpies that it is really common in but if the working breeders arn't testing, how can we be sure nothing underlying is being carried through their lines?

    I don't know if I'll find a breeder that does testing + everything else I want. So far the breeder I'm most happy with doesn't health test and they do produce a lot of litters, but this seems the norm aswell. There is demand for good working dogs and people will buy them if people are breeding them. Yet, so many that arn't up to par land in shelters. The thing that is drawing me to this breeder is that they do breed for temperment aswell as working ability. I've talked a lot of people and there are some studs out there that, while they are producing amazing working dogs, are mainly focussing on that one point.
    This is about 70% of the reason I won't be getting a kelpie as my next dog, finding a decent Kelpie breeder seems harder than finding a decent BC breeder.
     
  5. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    I just had the best discussion ever with one of my neighbors. Two of our three neighbors have hounds. One has "just hounds" that are "good working dogs" and the other has health tested, purebred hounds. The one with purebred hounds is my favorite, and not because I am a purebred dog snob, by any means. He used to buy "good working dogs" but as such, there is never a guarantee. He found a breeder who breeds purebred walker coon hounds and health tests ALL of his dogs. So much so that he requires the dog be brought back to him at two, xrayed by his vet, and if it doesn't pass OFA, the dog is altered and the owner given a refund.

    Yes, my eyes popped out of my head too. No joke, as he wouldn't know where to begin making this up.

    There are some good hound breeders who health test.

    The point of them being purebred is that now the dogs are permanently able to be tracked. My neighbor also found out that breeding two great hounds does not produce all great puppies, hahaha. Really good guy. I'd get a hound from him, if I was into hounds!
     
  6. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Most B&T breeders I know that are STRICTLY hunting do not test.
     
  7. mom2dogs

    mom2dogs New Member

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    I think I should also mention that the two breeders above who I mentioned are farmers who aren't looking to improve the overall breed (ZOMG I know how awful ;)) but to improve their line and what they want from their working dogs. I think simply put they breed for themselves, not for the future of the breed, and not for anyone else. Selfish? Maybe. But once they die, their lines die with them. The vast majority of their puppies go to friends, family, and the neighbor's farm. Because the general public do not know of these breeders, one doesn't have internet but the one thing they both have in common is they don't advertise (LOL, I don't even know if they have a kennel name, and they certainly don't have a fancy registered name like my dogs).

    Just saying, every situation is different. I wouldn't hesitate to go back to Holland and ask to get a puppy from either.

    I think this is true to an extent. An unhealthy/unsound dog won't continue to work hard until 8-9 years old either (these are dogs that work all day long, 7 days a week) and won't do it without be physically and mentally able to do so. Bottom line is - these dogs actually prove themselves with hard labor day in and day out, and IMO, that is sometimes more important (again, hard core advocate of health testing, but I think in some situations, it's not the be all end all).
     
  8. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    I agree with that. The breeders I have delt with have dogs that are 10 working every day. Or almost every day. You have to look at your lines, how old the dogs in the pedigree were when they stoped working and why
     
  9. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Thanks for the opinions, guys. Just something I've noticed so figured I would ask. The walker breeder I know has some pretty OLD dogs who still hunt.
     
  10. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

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    And hunting is different than herding. Those dogs may hunt 6 weekends out of the year. Not very hard for a dysplastic dog to go out and hunt for 4-6 hours then have the next few days off. They don't have a flock to tend to etc. I still think that testing is important. I know plenty of dogs who will work through injury. At the end of a hard day, they will be limping a bit, but are back at it the next day.
     
  11. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Well, I dont know much about hunting or herding. Some of these dogs look pretty tore up. They have pretty bad scars. Not saying they should be health tested. Just an observation. :)
     
  12. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    I also think they should be health tested. many of the problems don't really start to affect a dog until he's middle aged, maybe 4 or 5. Chances are the dog will be bred around 2, possibly before his problem start to become bad enough to slow him down.
     
  13. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Not necessarily. When you have folks who are breeding only for themselves and family/friends, most have no use for a litter of pups when they have a bunch of young holdbacks from the last litter. At two, most are just starting to really work. Why breed another litter for yourself when you're just starting to work the last one?
     
  14. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    outline ACD
    while there are some guys that work their dogs like that, most doggers run year round for training (people in states where this isn't legal make summer trips to states where it is). the bear doggers here i ran my hogdog with run their dogs year round. in late spring & summer they only drop on visible tracks so they don't run sows w/cubs. hog doggers run year round because there is no closed seasons in most states. i run my greyX year round as do most wolfers.
    dogs running 30+ miles a week year round don't need hip & elbow testing, IF they aren't being bred until at least age 4 (especially for bear & hogdogs). the physical demands will cause weak joints to show MUCH earlier.
    working dogs are bred to a standard, the standard is what does the job the bestest for the longest. you'd be amazed at how many health problems you eliminate w/ such a standard.
    alot do test for things the job won't weed out, especially STDs.
     
  15. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Where'd you move in OK? I know a lot of working gundog people here but no hound people. Just curious, you're probably in a completely different area.
     

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