Breeding Ethics
- Thread starter Bowowee
- Start date
Situation here is different. Vet services are cheap. Travel is not that expensive since most of the shows are held in Metro Manila and nearby provinces. Thus, its not really impossible to earn money from dogs and be a show breeder at the same time. They even export their dogs. Please take note that they don't just breed. They breed and produce well conformed dogs, but they do it as a means of livelihood. Is it ethical?
I leave the word puppymiller for dogs that are not only bred for profit but also not well taken care of.
I have never really heard of a puppymiller showing - xraying and working.
( few rare akc examples when they get into hoarding)
I use the term Commercial breeders who breed many litters a year that do little or no health or work or show. They need to breed allot to pay bills or too off set costs of having tons of dogs to feed.
Commercial breeders can turn puppmillers quick when they get in over their heads with too many to take care of.
And I use the term backyard breeder who has a few dogs , none or few are proven in anything other than the ability to produce a litter.
Professional breeders work in the industry and off sets costs in handling fee's for other dogs, judging,traning, selling products they create or find a need for, running their own shows etc etc.
I have never really heard of a puppymiller showing - xraying and working.
( few rare akc examples when they get into hoarding)
I use the term Commercial breeders who breed many litters a year that do little or no health or work or show. They need to breed allot to pay bills or too off set costs of having tons of dogs to feed.
Commercial breeders can turn puppmillers quick when they get in over their heads with too many to take care of.
And I use the term backyard breeder who has a few dogs , none or few are proven in anything other than the ability to produce a litter.
Professional breeders work in the industry and off sets costs in handling fee's for other dogs, judging,traning, selling products they create or find a need for, running their own shows etc etc.
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I'm from the Philippines also. Just wanted to add that there is no OFA equivalent here, so that would explain why health-testing is a lot cheaper. If I'm not mistaken, most breeders opt to get certifications from the vet instead.
I think what Bowowee is saying is possible if the breeder charges a lot and actually has a profit margin. But it still feels unethical to me. Maybe because there are reputable and responsible breeders who don't try to make money off their pups and who do this out of genuine passion and dedication for the breed. Here's a theoretical question: if those breeders who produce healthy, champion dogs could not make money off breeding and even possibly lose money doing it, would they still breed their dogs?
I think what Bowowee is saying is possible if the breeder charges a lot and actually has a profit margin. But it still feels unethical to me. Maybe because there are reputable and responsible breeders who don't try to make money off their pups and who do this out of genuine passion and dedication for the breed. Here's a theoretical question: if those breeders who produce healthy, champion dogs could not make money off breeding and even possibly lose money doing it, would they still breed their dogs?
A certificate from the vet is not a test. The vet cannot thump on the dogs bones like a watermelon to hear if they are sound and strong enough to earn a living being a sport dog (you know, for titleing or something) A vet cannot put on his x ray glasses and see the dogs joints to tell if there is any future risk or HD or ED that can be passed on to offspring by breeding.Vets cant even offer correct feeding advice !!!
Show dogs are expensive, and for a reason. SHOWING dogs costs alot of money.
If I read this right, you are talking conformation, not sporting. So, you have a bitch, you paid???? for her. She goes into heat, stud fees??Of course you want a worthy stud, look at posibly a thousand dollars, given the benefit, we will say $500. You breed, three times??It takes. You have vet visits. You say not expensive so we'll go with $40 per visit. Supplements, and any problems that may arise in between. You whelp, the pups have to go to the vet now. Simple charge. Then momma needs a shot to clean her out, to be examined, more money. Then puppy shots, puppy food, etc.
That is just the puppy process.
Before all this, you have to work on getting a conformation title with the bitch. You start training at a young age. Training costs money, and to make it all the way thru, you spend even more.
One best in show proves NOTHING. This takes possibly years.
It is too much to explain, and I dont feel like typing....but there is NO WAY you can make a living as a REPUTABLE breeder and get rich off of it. I didnt even mention ossible problems that may occur.
Besides, do you know the statistics of how many pups are born CONFORMATIONALLY CORRECT, even though both parents were PERFECT????Very, very low. You are lucky to get one, maybe two!
Show dogs are expensive, and for a reason. SHOWING dogs costs alot of money.
If I read this right, you are talking conformation, not sporting. So, you have a bitch, you paid???? for her. She goes into heat, stud fees??Of course you want a worthy stud, look at posibly a thousand dollars, given the benefit, we will say $500. You breed, three times??It takes. You have vet visits. You say not expensive so we'll go with $40 per visit. Supplements, and any problems that may arise in between. You whelp, the pups have to go to the vet now. Simple charge. Then momma needs a shot to clean her out, to be examined, more money. Then puppy shots, puppy food, etc.
That is just the puppy process.
Before all this, you have to work on getting a conformation title with the bitch. You start training at a young age. Training costs money, and to make it all the way thru, you spend even more.
One best in show proves NOTHING. This takes possibly years.
It is too much to explain, and I dont feel like typing....but there is NO WAY you can make a living as a REPUTABLE breeder and get rich off of it. I didnt even mention ossible problems that may occur.
Besides, do you know the statistics of how many pups are born CONFORMATIONALLY CORRECT, even though both parents were PERFECT????Very, very low. You are lucky to get one, maybe two!
Well, here is a breeder in my area that shows and health tests their dogs. (Has like 30 something champions) and they make a profit.
I consider them a high class puppy mill. Theyt do make decisions and do breedings that I think are unethical, but they show and test their dogs.
www.okies.com
I consider them a high class puppy mill. Theyt do make decisions and do breedings that I think are unethical, but they show and test their dogs.
www.okies.com
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I agree that something like an x-ray and a certification from a vet is not the same as health-testing for hip dysplasia. But I'm not sure what else local breeders do or could do since there is no OFA equivalent here. I've never bred, so I'm not sure what kind of "substitution" is feasible for health-testing and if the Philippines even has the technology to conduct those health-tests.
R
If you have access to mail service, there is nothing keeping anyone from submitting films to OFA for evaluation.
Find out how at http://www.offa.org/apps.html
Find out how at http://www.offa.org/apps.html
