Breeder help (border collies)

[UniquityBelgians]

I am in BC so not very far -- I recommend our herding trainer, Diana Gauthier. Her dogs have great temperaments and they're real stock dogs. She works them on her farm. Her dogs have several herding Ch's. At the Calgary stampede she has won the World's Championship Stock dog competitions more than once. Here is her site: Keen-Eye Stockdogs Breeding and training of working border collies and stockdogs. Lumby, British Columbia, Canada
There's another breeder here that uses her lines. I don't know much about her but I drive past her place when I go to agility and she is often out working her dogs on the sheep (she also teaches herding lessons).
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Have to agree with the majority here about titles; Some of the most herding titled dogs I know of (seriously ALOT of titles, and ALOT of firsts for not just their breed but all breeds) were trained by the use of shock collars, and when trialled wear heavy "dummy" collars to keep them in control. If one was looking at titles, they'd think they were getting a spectacular herding prospect. To know that a dog works a farm/ranch and the owner depends on them to work, THAT is the best way to know if it's a good working dog IMO.
Same goes for any other performance events; I know of National BISS winners that don't even deserve to be Chs. Heavily agiltiy titled dogs that would rather bite someone's arm off.. etc. Titles look pretty but they are terribly decieving.

 

[Romy]

BB, have you ever been out to Ewe-Topia or Fido's Farm? You might go out some time to observe dogs working and talk to some of the owners of dogs you like to find out where they came from.

 

[Sit Stay]

Meh, I wouldn't rule a working BC breeder out because they don't title their dogs. Just like I wouldn't rule out a sighthound breeder who didn't title their dogs but hunted them. A great ranch and/or farm dog can be worth it's weight in gold and you can't typically tell that from title, herding or not because most of the time the real ranch/farm work doesn't have much in common with trials so titles don't really help prove breeding quality for those types of dogs.

For that second breeder I think the most telling thing would be to have them get you in contact with people who've gotten their dogs and gone off to compete in trialed events.

But I hope the third breeder emails you back since you seem to like them the best! Personally, since I'm allergic to contracts that was the first thing I liked about them

Hope some of the BC chime in with some more suggestions for you breeder wise

I think I love you!

This is so funny - I was literally just (like 30 seconds ago) talking to my mom about this. She wondered why more English Shepherd people don't show their dogs UKC Conformation - I said I figured it was because people valued a working, conformed to stay sound ES more than one that does well in the ring. I then brought up that I don't even see many English Shepherds with stock dog titles, and that most breeders just use them around their own farm. I don't hold it against the breeder or the dogs at all. If a dog shows no interest in stock, or has so much prey drive it can't be trusted on stock, any decent breeder that uses their dogs wouldn't WANT to use them in their breeding program. In the latter's case it probably wouldn't even stay on the farm.

Regarding the agility, I think it depends on the circumstances. If they've been involved in agility for years and years, trialed lots of dogs, done well, maybe judged, but have life circumstances (injury, kids, etc) than prevent them from trialing a dog I'm inclined to take their word for it that the dog is say sufficiently athletic and drivey and would do well. If it's someone who has no formal agility training that runs their dogs over some jumps every once in awhile, not so much.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Here is her site: Keen-Eye Stockdogs Breeding and training of working border collies and stockdogs. Lumby, British Columbia, Canada

Sorry I don't have anything of use to add but....Oh my GAWD, her puppies are gorgeous.

 

[Dekka]

Regarding the agility, I think it depends on the circumstances. If they've been involved in agility for years and years, trialed lots of dogs, done well, maybe judged, but have life circumstances (injury, kids, etc) than prevent them from trialing a dog I'm inclined to take their word for it that the dog is say sufficiently athletic and drivey and would do well. If it's someone who has no formal agility training that runs their dogs over some jumps every once in awhile, not so much.

This is so true. I get annoyed by breeders, rescues or people trying to home/sell a dog who swear its a fantastic agility prospect but have no experience with the sport. (Or who have only trialled one dog even though they have owned many)

 

[Babyblue5290]

I am in BC so not very far -- I recommend our herding trainer, Diana Gauthier. Her dogs have great temperaments and they're real stock dogs. She works them on her farm. Her dogs have several herding Ch's. At the Calgary stampede she has won the World's Championship Stock dog competitions more than once. Here is her site: Keen-Eye Stockdogs Breeding and training of working border collies and stockdogs. Lumby, British Columbia, Canada
There's another breeder here that uses her lines. I don't know much about her but I drive past her place when I go to agility and she is often out working her dogs on the sheep (she also teaches herding lessons).
HOME PAGE

Have to agree with the majority here about titles; Some of the most herding titled dogs I know of (seriously ALOT of titles, and ALOT of firsts for not just their breed but all breeds) were trained by the use of shock collars, and when trialled wear heavy "dummy" collars to keep them in control. If one was looking at titles, they'd think they were getting a spectacular herding prospect. To know that a dog works a farm/ranch and the owner depends on them to work, THAT is the best way to know if it's a good working dog IMO.
Same goes for any other performance events; I know of National BISS winners that don't even deserve to be Chs. Heavily agiltiy titled dogs that would rather bite someone's arm off.. etc. Titles look pretty but they are terribly decieving.

I definitely don't mind the travel, but I'm wondering if there would be any special rules as far as bringing dogs across the border?

I have to say, I almost died when I saw the puppies from Keen-Eye stock dogs! *squee* lol

BB, have you ever been out to Ewe-Topia or Fido's Farm? You might go out some time to observe dogs working and talk to some of the owners of dogs you like to find out where they came from.

I have not been, I was looking at both places and t looks like Fido'sFarm is not too far at all! I'll definitely go take a look! Thanks!!

 

[Babyblue5290]

GOd, I don't know what I'm going to do! I'm dying over here, I wish SO MUCH I could get my BC pup NOW! >_< I am having such horrible puppy fever right now. Border Collie Puppy Pictures are just not doing it right now, I need help.

 

[Dekka]

I definitely don't mind the travel, but I'm wondering if there would be any special rules as far as bringing dogs across the border?

I have to say, I almost died when I saw the puppies from Keen-Eye stock dogs! *squee* lol



I have not been, I was looking at both places and t looks like Fido'sFarm is not too far at all! I'll definitely go take a look! Thanks!!

Lots of us do it Maf's Smudge was born in the US, as were Dash and Bounce. Wash was born here and now lives with Xpeanx in the US. They need rabies to cross the border, and to be legal you have to declare the puppy and pay extra $$ (though sometimes not much, it depends on the value of the puppy)

 

[Shai]

This is so true. I get annoyed by breeders, rescues or people trying to home/sell a dog who swear its a fantastic agility prospect but have no experience with the sport. (Or who have only trialled one dog even though they have owned many)

+2

Can't say how many times I've been told X dog is a PERFECT agility prospect because he jumps high/runs fast (in their opinion relative to what they are used to), is high-energy...only to discover the dog has horrible structure, has virtually no interest in people or anything they have to offer, etc...

I mean yeah most dogs can get around a course given sufficient training but that doesn't make them potential agility standouts...

/steps off soapbox

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Lots of us do it Maf's Smudge was born in the US, as were Dash and Bounce. Wash was born here and now lives with Xpeanx in the US. They need rabies to cross the border, and to be legal you have to declare the puppy and pay extra $$ (though sometimes not much, it depends on the value of the puppy)

Importing means you likely need to pay taxes, duty, possibly extra fees if flown rather than driven. It's based on the value of the dog.. You could lie if the value is high, but if you are caught you could pay 25-80% of the dogs value potentially on top of the fees you were already going to pay.. may not be worth it..

I got hosed with a few random fees not by customs, those fees were low, but by the airline.. they wouldn't explain them to me and held Smudge hostage. It was a terrible experience where they also claimed I assaulted them cause I dropped the debit machine...

Under a certain age they do not need rabies to cross the border, I think it's three months. To make my life easier I had Smudge done before he left as he was 14 weeks.

Importing itself wasn't a hassle really, it was the stupid stuff that happened, including the airline cancelling his connecting flight and not removing him from the plane and the fight that ensued as my breeder demanded he be shipped back as he would be stuck for multiple days in NJ as there were no connecting flights after they cancelled his..

Things that shouldn't really happen were the hassle..

 

[UniquityBelgians]

I definitely don't mind the travel, but I'm wondering if there would be any special rules as far as bringing dogs across the border?

I have had several dogs/puppies driven across the border. They need a rabies certificate if they are over 12 weeks -- otherwise, no issues! I've heard of the border guards opening the vechicle to look at the dog etc, but it's never happened to me or my new puppy owners. They've never even peered through the window of my vehicle when I've driven them down. So no worries there!

 

[Babyblue5290]

First, I've gotta say I'm having serious puppy fever right now! Well, I've had BC puppy fever for months now, but this week has been bad! I think it's looking at all the website and puppy pics >_<

I'm also struggling with my decision to go the breeder route and not a rescue. I've always rescued, I know there are wonderful dogs in rescues dying because they can't find a home. And this makes me feel so terribly guilty. I keep thinking that if I just get a rescue this time, I can get my border collie puppy later down the line, but then I feel cheated as I've wanted this puppy for years. *sigh* I just wish I could get a puppy without feeling so darn guilty about it.

Importing means you likely need to pay taxes, duty, possibly extra fees if flown rather than driven. It's based on the value of the dog.. You could lie if the value is high, but if you are caught you could pay 25-80% of the dogs value potentially on top of the fees you were already going to pay.. may not be worth it..

I got hosed with a few random fees not by customs, those fees were low, but by the airline.. they wouldn't explain them to me and held Smudge hostage. It was a terrible experience where they also claimed I assaulted them cause I dropped the debit machine...

Under a certain age they do not need rabies to cross the border, I think it's three months. To make my life easier I had Smudge done before he left as he was 14 weeks.

Importing itself wasn't a hassle really, it was the stupid stuff that happened, including the airline cancelling his connecting flight and not removing him from the plane and the fight that ensued as my breeder demanded he be shipped back as he would be stuck for multiple days in NJ as there were no connecting flights after they cancelled his..

Things that shouldn't really happen were the hassle..

Gosh, what a terrible experience! I am not really a big fan of flying (eek) so I'd likely drive there and back! I think I'll keep cross border options open for now, and pick breeders based off how I like each individual one. Then pick my top breeders and narrow it down based off location at the end.

Lots of us do it Maf's Smudge was born in the US, as were Dash and Bounce. Wash was born here and now lives with Xpeanx in the US. They need rabies to cross the border, and to be legal you have to declare the puppy and pay extra $$ (though sometimes not much, it depends on the value of the puppy)

As far as "declare the puppy" do you mean to just let the border patrol know that you are carrying a puppy back?

I have had several dogs/puppies driven across the border. They need a rabies certificate if they are over 12 weeks -- otherwise, no issues! I've heard of the border guards opening the vechicle to look at the dog etc, but it's never happened to me or my new puppy owners. They've never even peered through the window of my vehicle when I've driven them down. So no worries there!

awesome!

 

[Lizmo]

Why would you wait to get the dog you wanted? I don't really understand that.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

When you cross, you are supposed to declare anything of value you are bringing back. Wouldn't matter if it's jewellery or a puppy.. You could try to lie.. hope they don't ask about it.. but if they think you are lying there's multiple terrible things that could happen, minor being fines though they could end up being steep, major being they seize the property (dog). And you may not be getting it back..

You might slip under the radar, but if you don't..

 

[Babyblue5290]

Why would you wait to get the dog you wanted? I don't really understand that.

Because there's always a dog that I get told about by friends who still volunteer at the HS here that tell me "She needs a home now! sweetest this" "cutest that" "best personality" "would be perfect for agility" etc and I feel bad for saying no and then go looking for a puppy I want to get from a breeder.

Basically, I've never went looking for a breeder to get one of my dogs. I've always rescued. It's just, this breed, this puppy, is just one that I don't want to take the chance for. I mean, if I found the perfect border collie in rescue I wouldn't put up a fight, but I really wanted a puppy this time. *sigh* This is just a hard decision for me.

When you cross, you are supposed to declare anything of value you are bringing back. Wouldn't matter if it's jewellery or a puppy.. You could try to lie.. hope they don't ask about it.. but if they think you are lying there's multiple terrible things that could happen, minor being fines though they could end up being steep, major being they seize the property (dog). And you may not be getting it back..

You might slip under the radar, but if you don't..

I wouldn't even want to risk it honestly. It's just not worth the risk! I'll go legal all the way lol

 

[Lizmo]

Well, what are your plans for this dog? Pet, dabbling, serious competition? Do you just want a pet with a great temperment? Would you like to have a breeder to talk to? Do you want to know the history of your pup, for medical and just knowing sake? Do you want a pup or an adult?

Maybe narrowing that down, and figure out how important those things are, will help you decide which is best.