Breed Suggestions

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Finkie_Mom, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. yv0nne

    yv0nne Vizsla mom

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    Yeah, BC's can be quirky& weird. And they are certainly hardwired to WORK 24/7 .. even when they are relaxing, you can tell they are just waiting for you to get up& interact with them.

    That said, I wouldn't say they can be some of the most challenging to train. Not by a long shot!
     
  2. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I don't think you're doing the breed any favors by simplifying them.

    Malinois, like collies, are not super hard to train and in some regards they're a total mind screw. Some Malinois are sweet and easy, I've even met relatively lazy malinois, but most malinois are like my boy. Busy, reactive, possessive, noisy, distrusting, rude, and sensitive to touch. He's still a kick ass working dog but I would not recommend the breed when someone wants a dog to do bitework with, considering life with a dog is so much more than just sport training/competition.

    Border collies can be so soft and reactive and quirky, weird is a great way to describe it. They're not an easy breed and I would never recommend them just because someone wants to run agility.
     
  3. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    Their challenges are different than what you would face in a different breed but that doesn't mean they aren't one of the most challenging. My great dane was far easier to train in agility than my border collie mix. Obviously we had different challenges between the breeds but I would almost take the dane's ability to think over Zuma's balls to the wall approach any day.
     
  4. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    I'm not trying to simplify them. I'm saying that yes, some lines ARE like that, but some AREN'T. And the ones that AREN'T would be a good fit for her criteria. Especially for a dog trainer.
     
  5. yv0nne

    yv0nne Vizsla mom

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    I guess so.. just thinking that the BC's I know are focused and willing to work and sure ..sometimes they are nuts and you need to take 5 minutes to get them paying attention to you but they pick up things very quickly if you put the effort in. Having said that, I've only met about 20 or so Borders and they are all serious agility competitors ..I have seen a few that were not focused and did whatever they want, but attributed that to lack of being worked with
     
  6. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    My thoughts as. As you put it one time for Mals, you only recommend the breed when that's what they know they want. I'd put BC in the same category.
     
  7. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    For what it's worth, I think the argument being made is not that it is difficult to teach BCs new behaviors (hardly!) but that agility is more about working in fluid partnership at speed and that can be difficult for many people with many BCs, mostly because of their combination of handler sensitivity, detail-orientation, and speed of movement and reaction. It can and often does result in a frustrated handler and ticked off dog.

    [general]
    There are many, many breeds that are good at agility. While the top dogs in the U.S. tend to be primarily BCs and Shelties, they are a very very small percentage of the overall numbers of those breeds present in the sport. A team with a well-built dog that has a strong relationship and works fluidly can and will beat the majority of BCs or Shelties (depending on their height category). It's far more important to have a good match than a particular breed.
     
  8. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    This. It's easy to see those well-worked teams and think that it was easy to get there. It's not. It really, really isn't. I wish more people saw the time and the work and the energy that was put into building those relationships and working on teamwork rather than just the end result.
     
  9. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    While they are biddable dogs I can say with confidence that Arnold, my lazy "whatever you say" pit bull, is easier. He never gets too creative, he never moves too fast, he's never too pushy, he's never chaotic and quirky and confusing.

    I love border collies, really, but I worry about proposing a breed which holds such intensity and challenge without offering up the whole picture.

    Beyond the time it takes to get a collie to that podium it these people ideally live with their dogs and some border collies rival my malinois for the most annoying house pet ever award. :)
     
  10. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    I think anyone who thinks BCs are easy or the best for agility should go and read Three Woofs and A Woos stories about Dexter. And she's very experienced in agility and border collies.
     
  11. yv0nne

    yv0nne Vizsla mom

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    I'm not saying it's easy ..as a newbie training my own dog& running a Border, I know it's anything but. I don't even have a Border, I have a Vizsla so I even get there's other breeds ;)

    I guess I just lucked out ..I click really well with Briar& my transition from total beginner to handling B fairly well was, well not easy exactly. But in 4 months we've won both events we entered and we work really well together. That said, there's still times with him that I want to rip my hair out. There's also times the same can be said for Penny. I'm assuming fast dogs just means that is par for the course? Heck, Penny isn't even half as fast as B but but just the learning process is taxing.

    Although, I will also say a Border DOES have ridiculous drive. Or at least all of the ones I've met& especially B. So, that part may not mesh regardless for your criteria!
     
  12. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    I think that if it were someone that didn't already compete and know a lot about dogs and wasn't a trainer, I would not be so quick to suggest them, probably would have gone into more details, so I understand what you're saying.
     
  13. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yeah I don't know much about Finkies. I've only ever met one and the dog was lazy lazy lazy.... so probably not a good comparison point.
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I love BCs and I think they're great dogs and obviously great sports dogs. But I have met many many border collies over the years. And many many owners. Some of whom got the dog only really because BCs are 'the best'. And the dog is a terrible fit.

    Dogs wash out of agility all the time or the owner changes their mind about dog sports. The dog is your pet and partner 24/7 and a sports dog only a portion of it's life. If it's like most people, they spend a few hours a week training. The rest is a pet. Get a dog you like as a pet first.
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    the point I was attempting, well put!
     
  16. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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  17. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    This. And, one of the criteria was "drivey but not over the top drivey". Which kind of lets out most BCs. BCs tend to be very driven. It's why I wouldn't have recommended Pyr Sheps (not all the Pyr Sheps I know are really drivey, but if a person doesn't want a really drivey dog, I don't think their odds of liking a Pyr Shep are very high)

    I actually think Valhund was a good suggestion.
     
  18. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Would a samoyed work as an agility dog? They've got that spitzy independent streak tempered with herder biddability. The only drawback might be the coat if that's not a type you want to deal with.
     
  19. Kootenay

    Kootenay Active Member

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    The one Coolie I know fits most of those criteria, about 30lbs, definitely has drive but totally not over the top, not much in the way of grooming, definitely a rare breed. He is a bit of a velcro dog, though.
     
  20. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    This.. you should find a dog that compliments you, both in the ring and out.
     

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