Breed bans

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Kilter, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I don't feel like a Pit Bull ban at dog parks would solve any issues... dumbass owners who are irresponsible and in denial about their own dog will lie, ignore, or claim that their dog is a "Boxer mix" and will continue to bring their aggressive dogs to dog parks. It will only affect the GOOD Pit Bull owners who completely know their dog and have respect for others. The good owners wouldn't be bringing a possibly DA dog to the dog park anyway, regardless of breed. There is already a warning at every dog park that aggressive dogs aren't allowed - people still bring in aggressive dogs. There is a warning that all dogs must be vaccinated - people still bring in unvaccinated 8 week old puppies. Generally, bans only hurt good people, the dumbasses don't care anyway.

    I've had years of experience managing a dog daycare with thousands of dogs and Boxers, Goldens and Akitas were always a worry in play group. They would look and act friendly at first, and their owners would swear on their life that the dog was a perfect little angel... but at the drop of a hat, with not so much as a warning growl, the dog would latch onto another and rip them open! Those three breeds were the ones that I'd carefully screen and rarely trust in all day play. We also had a lot of problems with Labs, Huskies and German Shepherds (the German Sheps wouldn't usually fight, but they'd annoy, bark and harass dogs to the point of getting their ass kicked) and many other common dog park breeds. Border Collies could NEVER be in big dog group, they'd be biting the **** out of every rude dog in sight, which is most of them!

    With Pit Bulls, for the most part, the owners were honest. They would tell us "NO dogs allowed near him" or "he loves other dogs" and we never had an issue with an owner lying. Some owners just hand't tried their dog with others to be safe, and the dog's behavior at the sight of another dog made it clear. I feel like Pit Bulls can be SUPER cold, like, the most reliable, trustworthy, I-love-everyone-I-meet perfect dog park dogs. Anything other than that? No, I wouldn't trust them in a dog park environment. But I know dozens of ice cold Pit Bulls who wouldn't dream of brawling, lots of selective Pit Bulls, and a few who are out for blood. That doesn't mean that all of them should be banned... especially since so many breeders are working towards breeding DA out of the breed, and breeders of Amstaffs and ABs who have been breeding dog friendly dogs only for decades. To me, that'd be like banning English Bulldogs from dog parks because they used to be the premiere fighting breed. And Bull Terriers. Etc.

    I've only seen one Pit Bull fight, between two intact males, which only resulted in a bitten tongue. I've seen a yellow Lab nearly kill a very large Boston x Beagle mix in seconds. Banning "aggressive dogs" from dog parks and actually enforcing that is a much better idea. Creating bans just because a Pit Bull MIGHT be DA is definitely a step towards an all-out breed ban, it goes with the idea that a breed defines the dog, when that is so far from the truth! That dog's specific breeding, socialization, training and most of all OWNER is so much more important than the dog's appearance alone. I've probably seen 50 or more Lab fights at the dog park. If we're going to ban a breed based on creating fights, that would be it. I could say that based on that, Labs are dangerous dogs. But it's much more likely that Labs are simply the most common breed, and I see Labs fighting the most because there are stupid, careless people in the world with all breeds of dogs!
     
  2. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    I have met several cold Pit Bulls. I still wouldn't put them in a dog park situation. I have met Pit Bulls that were dead cold... until 8 years old, when their owners came home to one dead and one dying dog.

    I won't even touch on breeders who are breeding out DA. That's what Am Staffs are. Not APBTs. If you don't want to or cannot deal with dog aggression, get another breed. Period.
     
  3. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Are you happy with the fact you have three dog tolerant pit bulls?
     
  4. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing that many breeders are breeding out DA. But it's what is happening, like it or not. Plenty of pet breeders are doing it inadvertently, and you know BYBs are responsible for the majority of Pit Bulls in this country.

    I feel like breed specific bans are just a bad idea in general... especially with this breed, facing all of the fear mongering that it is. Dog park bans will lead to park bans will lead to city bans will lead to state bans. The general ignorant public won't just think that, oh, Pit Bulls are prone to dog aggression. They'll think, oh my god, Pit Bulls are vicious and will kill me and my dogs and children! They aren't even allowed at the dog park!

    If I had a cold Pit Bull, would I bring him to the dog park? No. But I don't even bring my Border Collie to the dog park and he's never hurt another dog. Like some one else said, many terriers are scrappers! JRTs will throw down! Does that mean all terriers should be banned, just to be safe, or should general aggression be banned? It would be much more beneficial if dog parks were actually monitored in some way, like if people had to buy memberships & provide proof of vaccinations & go through temperament evaluations. That is how dog daycare is... and I worked there full time for 4 years, saw thousands of dogs of all breeds, with one person supervising 20 dogs and 6 groups of all day play every day. I saw less than a dozen fights in those 4 years. At the dog park, I've seen hundreds, and it's not like I work there! The problem REALLY is stupid people in general.
     
  5. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    I am indifferent to it. Whether or not my dogs like other dogs isn't important to me. I let my dogs interact now to various degrees because they enjoy it... I still have to rotate dogs. But, no one is down and out trying to kill anyone else at this time.

    Mind you, two of those three Pit Bulls aren't mature yet... so we'll see how tolerant they are in a year or two ;)
     
  6. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I have met a lot of HOT ASTs. I don't think thwy are more dog tolerant.
     
  7. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    Exactly. It's why they'll spar other terriers in the AKC ring, but not ASTs (or other bull and terriers). They don't have to like it, but they still respect the tendencies of the breeds.
     
  8. Tazwell

    Tazwell New Member

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    If were talking about purebred, 100% line-bred apbts, that's one thing. But how often do I see that here in the suburbs of Detroit? Darn near never. They're all bully looking mixes, mixed with who knows what-- maybe even not pit bull. I know gobs of 'pit bull type' dogs that are very social, very soft tempered, attend daycare on a daily to weekly basis, never look cross at another dog.

    On the other hand, Dobes-GSDs-all terrier breeds-labradors-sibes --- I see lots of individuals of those breeds (and others, of course) become hot tempered all the time, in dog parks or wherever. A lot more than I see a DA 'pit bull', come to think of it! I know somebody who's friend has a lovely little pit, who is a therapy dog. They went to the dog park regularly, until one day, a GSD spied them from across the park, bolted towards them, and grabbed the pit's face and nearly killed her. She needed nearly her entire face and neck stapled and stitched. That's an isolated situation, but still gets the point across.

    We know breeds have tendencies, but there are SO many other breeds that are equally as DA, and even equally as dangerous (I can think of a few molosser breeds. ). And individuals of other breeds that are very dangerous, also. I think what it really comes down to is the individual dog, the owner, and the scenario (are the dogs separated big to small? Are there attendants? Etc. ).

    The dog park in my city screens the dogs by meeting them for an orientation first, and evaluating them there. I think that's a good practice, although certainly not fool proof.

    There are so many individuals of the pit bull type that are, and can be safe, and truly benefit from the socialization that they receive. And there are so many individuals of other breeds that can be very dangerous. I don't think it's right to ban a breed when there's so much more to it.
     
  9. Blue_Dog

    Blue_Dog Guest

    This. This times 100.

    If breed bans worked than the evidence would be there. But they don't, and instead we hear of stories like Lennox and Wicca.
     
  10. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Oh and speaking from someone who lived and was raised in a pitbull ban city.

    It doesn't work.

    I volunteer at the local shelter.. pitbulls/pit mixes are everywhere.. It doesn't work.
    People who want them have them anyway. It doesn't work.
    Dog bites happen. Dog fighting happens. It doesn't work.
    Dogs that aren't pits get taken away all the time. It doesn't work.

    The laws are vague, messy, and volatile. and in the end.. they do nothing.

    For a eye-burning read.. check out the official "pitbull test" How many breeds fit the description.. how many dogs? PLENTY. http://www.miamidade.gov/animals/library/pit_bull_description.pdf

    It is illegal in Miami-Dade County to own or keep American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, or any other dog that substantially conforms to any of these breeds' characteristics. For more information, view the Miami-Dade County ordinance,

    it's a mess. frankly. http://www.miamidade.gov/animals/pitbull-law.asp
     

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