Breed bans

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Kilter, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Sounds like a problem with your set up? I work at a kennel that does daycare style boarding (out during the day, crates at night). (I don't like it, nor do I particularly care for running dogs in groups of 20 dogs or so, FWIW, but I have so much say in how we do things and we keep our dogs safe, so... *shrug* *sigh*) I don't know what kind of fencing you have but if a dog can stick its face through it, I'd be worried. Because the fact of the matter is that even a dog you've temperament tested can get weird when you'll be boarding it for 10 days - I've seen it happen. We had dog that was staying with us for like 2 weeks because his owner had a fire. The dog was fine for the first week, and then randomly lashed out and put a hole in another dog's ear, and proceeded to attempt that behavior for the duration of his stay. Obviously he was sick of being boarded (understandable!), but the problem is that he wouldn't offer any warning before attacking, so he had to be totally isolated. And he was a Grade A mutt, very difficult to distinguish a primary breed even.

    I think ANY kennel or daycare facility should have the means to keep at least one dog isolated to the point that another dog should not be able to stick face or limb into its space, in case of an emergency.

    If you feel you need to ban a breed(s) for the time being before correcting the set up, then so be it, but frankly, I've seen plenty of DA mutts, and when you get one of those, you'll be back to square one. Wouldn't it be more useful to not board DA dogs? (We don't! I tell them this is not the right place for their dog and send to a place that doesn't do group play and has kennel runs with solid walls.)

    I'm not trying to be nasty and I hope that comes through in the post. I work in the business and I know what it's like. We've had to kick out our fair share of bully type dogs. And I know that nobody and no place is perfect. But I really do believe that banning a breed(s) won't even be a bandaid over the real problem, which is that there's no isolation set up even for an emergency. Just IMO after having several mixes and even one Golden display signs of rising DA when they booked for an extended boarding stay.
     
  2. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    It's not a staffing issue, we've had a lot of dogs with issues in the past and deal with them all the time - if they show signs of not playing nice, or not working in a group we move them. Usually it's quiet enough to move a dog to a pen by themselves, and only one pen is 'small' at 15 feet by 30 feet, the rest are quite a bit bigger. Usually it's a group of 6 or so dogs in a pen/yard and someone out there keeping an eye on things.

    The issue is we don't have the setup to contain/manage that sort of dog safely - the last issue happened when the pitty was by himself in a big yard, and someone went out to get a dog and bring it in from another pen. She was walking the dog past the pitty's run and he went at the fence and managed to get the other dog's ear through the fence, and it took her and another person to get him to let go.

    Rather than having things like that happening again and having more people out there with a negative pitty story they've opted to not take them in.
     
  3. JustaLilBitaLuck

    JustaLilBitaLuck New Member

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    This.

    And this.

    I also don't think specific breeds or sizes of dog should be banned from apartments or townhouses or what have you. It really is dependent on the individual dog and their individual owner - not breeds as a whole.
     
  4. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    The problem I see is that "that sort of dog" can come in many shapes and many of them don't fit the bill of a "pit bull", and some will not show that they are "that sort of dog" until you've already admitted them. No, obviously, you shouldn't take "that sort of dog" unless you can do so safely, but banning pit bulls doesn't guarantee anything.
     
  5. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    Emily - it's the same setting where I work, but not huge groups at all. Dogs can't stick their faces through, the spacing is 2 by 4 inches I think. If it was a different setting it wouldn't be an issue and I think when they do expand they'll build as they need things to be, but for now it's not going to happen. They do ask if the dog has a history of aggression, does the dog go to boarding/daycare/off leash parks and so on when screening, and we've seen many dogs go kennel goofy and worked with them, I know what you mean. But like anything else, if there's people going around saying 'I took my dog there and it got attacked' then it's not going to help their income...
     
  6. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    2"x4" is a pretty darn big gap, I'd say. I'm not a fan of our few chain link fences and they're way tighter than that. Many dogs can get a muzzle or limb through there. Even slapping some hardware cloth over that could make things much safer in the short run.

    Believe me, I hear you about business and safety. I'm just doubtful that a breed ban will rectify the situation, is all.
     
  7. Kaydee

    Kaydee Guest

    I haven't read or posted on this thread because I feel that "breed" is utterly subjective. There are dogs who raised by breeders to be a particular type of dog. I imagine the females are monitered or kept in some kind of seclusion so they don't go all frisky with an unknown dog. Then the breeder can have a precise family tree of this dog and that dog and that dog, making a more or less exact family tree of that particular kind of dog.

    But by and large dogs are mixes to some degree. So breedism becomes purely perception...does that dog LOOK like a rottweiler, a dobie, something in the pit bull idea? I've seen GSD's in public that give me the creeps, but I also remember GSD's I've known who were gentle lap dogs in private. An aggressive dog is dangerous, but it's the deed not a particular breed.
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Why was the dog on leash allowed so close to a dog separated for aggression?

    I handle a lot of DA dogs at work and we're big on DINOS here, no matter the breed or reason.

    I guess I still see it as the fault of the people trusted to care for these dogs.

    Accidents happen but placing the blame on the dog when the human took a chance isn't fair.

    I do agree though without the right containment a facility shouldnt have DA dogs of any sort.
     
  9. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    So you are ok banning "pit bulls". You do realize that it is not a breed, don't you? Do you know how many breeds you will have to ban because they fall under the "pit bull" label? Where do you draw the line, especially with mixed breeds and even more breeds that fit the government's description of "pit bulls"?

    Rules need to be in place in regard to dog aggressive dogs, prey-driven dogs, territorial dogs, etc. without singling out a minute handful of breeds. Because while you clap yourself on the back for a job well done, someone's Collie just attacked a Chihuahua and left it with its intestines exposed, while someone's Golden Retriever just attempted to bite a kennel worker.
     
  10. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    The dog had NOT shown any signs of DA before the attack. He had been out in a group throughout his stay, had other dogs in the laneway where it happened, had dogs moved through there and back, and even the dog that was attacked was through there earlier in the day, no issues.

    Had there been any signs of an issue, the dog would be brought inside and put in a pen just in case - I do that all the time if there's any sort of fence fighting or otherwise. If a dog is even annoying another dog it's moved/rotated to find a better suited group.

    If moving dogs past a fence with a bully type breed that is not showing signs of any DA is a 'risk' then it's not the right facility for those breed types at this time. I'd rather not board them than have them get a bad rap as a breed.
     
  11. Kaydee

    Kaydee Guest

    Oy, that a Jack Russell attacks and they should just ban all terriers period? I understand what people are trying to say as business owners but it still don't hold water...
     
  12. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Exactly. I’ve known some pretty darned dangerous mutts who weren’t bully anything who were as DA as you can get, intending to hurt/kill, few warnings etc. By the same token, I’ve known some pretty bully-looking mutts who were about as bombproof as they come.
     
  13. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Uh... moving ANY dog past a fenced one is a risk. Barrier frustration anyone?
    Add in the stress of a boarding environment, and its just smart handling not to allow a dog to stick his nose up to a fenced dog.
    For the same reason I would never let one of my dogs go sniff a dog in a crate (like I see moronic people do at shows all the time and then wonder why the dog in the crate goes off like Cujo).
     
  14. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    But banning them IS giving them a bad rap! By publicly banning them, you are telling everyone that they are inherently aggressive, vicious by nature, and uncontrollable. That is EXACTLY what a ban says.

    And ok, so a dog showed DA. If DA dogs are not allowed, discuss the issue with the owner, and calmly state the reason why the dog can no longer go there.

    But don't feed the mass hysteria with a misguided breed ban.

    And just out of curiosity, if a Lab snaps at a dog, are Labs to he banned as well?
     
  15. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    This, too.

    This sounds like a human failure plain and simple.
     
  16. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This sounds like a facility I would not trust. It's depressing they would ban a breed type but for the best as they are clearly not capable of responsible management for potentially dangerous behaviors.
     
  17. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    I have taken Jack to the park and been around various bully breeds without issue. The ones we have trouble with are the GSDs and mixes.

    When I first got Sally, back before I knew better, I would take her to the dog park. I was there one day with her and there were 3 other dogs-an American Bulldog, a GSP, and a lab mix, all males. The two non-bully breeds of the group got in a fight and had to be pulled apart, while Sally and the ambull just stood there and watched the whole thing go down.
     
  18. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    The last dog I remember really scaring me at the kennel I worked at in Lubbock was an Airedale. If he had to wait in line for admittance to boarding, he would drag the owner across the lobby at other dogs. And they wanted him boarded in the same 4' x 6' kennel room with his mini Schnauzer friend. I could manage the Airedale because I have a lot of experience with big, bratty dogs. But he was a liability. No ifs, ands or buts.

    Same place would board Pit Bulls, but they were not allowed in the play groups unless they were playing with a housemate. We boarded this one guy who I established a good rapport with. Handsome red/red intact male APBT. Intense, but not outright aggro (although I think he could have went that way with a quickness). I brought a sturdy buckle collar and rope leash from home and took him for walks instead. (He came in with quick-release gear that I didn't trust.)

    I don't agree with breed BANS. That would be hypocritical. But there is epic sense in knowing a bit about the history of the breeds you're caring for and using your brain.
     
  19. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    And like pops said, they don't always give warnings that humans not well versed in the breed would interpret as such.

    THIS is why these breeds shouldn't be at facilities that require them to interact with other dogs.

    But like I said... I think ALL dog parks and play groups should be abolished. Throwing a bunch of random dogs together is never a good idea, in my book.
     
  20. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    I am not sure why a facility would be able to handle other aggressive dogs but not "pits"? The dog was isolated yet somehow hit another through the fence. That is a kennel problem; not a breed problem.
     

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