Breed bans

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Kilter, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    When would you agree with something like a breed ban? I'm wondering because I did agree with one not long ago. Thought it'd be an interesting thread...

    I don't mean universal bans, like 'no pitbulls in the city', but in certain areas or places....
     
  2. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    I can't imagine ever agreeing with a breed ban.
     
  3. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    In what sense? Like no bullies in the dog park? No, I couldn't see an instance where I would agree. It is a very slippery slope IMO. I guess the problem is that there is no means of telling who isn't responsible before an incident happens, or even not being able to do something even though the warning signs are there. I guess this is what BSL is trying to do, but it certainly punishes the responsible people and dogs.
     
  4. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Dogs that are ballsy, like to fight and tend to grip and hold are more hazardous in a dog park than other dogs. There are breeds that exhibit these traits wayy more frequently than others. If 90% of a breed really does not belong in the dog park does it make sense to ban the breed from the park? Or do you let everybody in and wait for bad behavior to show, keeping in mind that the "showing" part may be pretty disastrous? And keeping in mind that these breeds tend not to need bad publicity.

    I don't really know lol.
     
  5. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    Hmm...just playing devil's advocate here...is it not bad publicity to hang a certain breed of dog as so different from other breeds that they need 'special treatment'?

    It then falls into the problem with ownership bans, that who's to say if a dog is a certain breed. Do you ban all bullies, GSDs, Dobes, Rotties? If you ban bullies, does that include the molosser types? Does that include the lab/boxer mixes that resemble bullies? Skye the Pointer mix has been called a pit bull before..if some random person decides she is a pit bull, do I get banned, even though she refuses to fight and never causes problems? I just don't think appearance alone is enough.
     
  6. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

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    Never, because they are based on completley the wrong idea. Breed bans are knee jerk reaction and a band aid solution to the bigger problem of uneducated, irresponsible owners making bad choices regarding what breed they take on and how they raise them after that.

    I also think in cases like "no bully breeds at dog parks" might be well intentioned, but in realtiy will lead to a whole lot of people. A. Thinking bully breeds are indeed dangerous and B. All other breeds are great for dog parks.
     
  7. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

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    I would never would want a breed banned for any reason.
     
  8. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    I think that people understand quite well that breeds have tendencies for certain behaviors... that is intuitive (and true). So if banning a breed sends the message that some breeds have a rather strong tendency to not do well in dog parks for a number of reasons... well, that's the truth anyways isn't it? Certainly more accurate than "they're all the same" (which seems to be the take home message for a lot of people when it comes to anti-ban). I know the reasoning behind all breeds allowed it that it depends on the individual dog, which is also true but doesn't really take into account that there ignorant and/or irresponsible owners and that certain breeds have a higher propensity for getting into fights and doing more damage (and for having irresponsible owners!).

    I think it makes a big difference if it is presented as the government imposing a ban (which implies irresponsible people with uncivilized dogs) or owners of the breed/dog people making some kind of ban (which imo implies responsibility).

    Just some things I've been considering, I'm certainly not advocating banning anything from any place at this point lol :) and I would never ever in a million years support a breed ban that covered an entire city or country.
     
  9. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    Do I believe ownership of certain breeds should be banned? No. That is a dangerous concept, and it's been PROVEN not to work.

    Do I believe certain breeds should be prohibited from off leash dog parks and play groups at day cares and such? ABSOLUTELY.

    Bull breeds have a genetic predisposition for dog aggression and prey drive, and owners who claim that their dog is "different", cry for equality, and claim their dog would never go after another animal are setting their dogs up for failure. These breeds have a population of owners who want to brand their dogs as being "just like any other dog" and able to be "raised right" and be friendly with everything on the planet, when this is simply not true. You absolutely cannot train out dog aggression or prey drive, and it's folly and dangerous to think you can. So, in light of those types of owners - I DO think someone else needs to step up to protect other dogs from people who don't realize their own dogs' genetic make up.

    (I think dog parks and off leash play groups at day care facilities in general are horrid ideas and I would never allow any dog of mine, regardless of breed, to be involved in any such activity.)
     
  10. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    I tend toward this mindset as well, though I don't have as much trouble with pit bulls in private daycares with people who know what they're doing and who will be proactive about telling the owner when it is time to stop bringing them.

    And I kind of hate that I feel that way- I hate that I am discriminatory toward pit bulls- but the truth is that owners are proving over and over and over again that they do not understand the breed and they cannot keep their dogs and other peoples' dogs safe, and those mistakes impact the entire pit bull owning population. Somebody letting their pit bull run at a dog park, get into a fight, and injure somebody's dog (or somebody) puts my dogs at risk. I wish that pit bull owners would just respect their dogs and open their eyes and grow brains, but alas....

    But yes, who is to say the dog is a pit bull and not a boxer/lab x? There are so many gray areas and so many what ifs?
     
  11. kady05

    kady05 Active Member

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    Right. I don't like the idea of dog parks either, and really wouldn't care if Pit Bulls weren't allowed in them, but where do you draw the line? There are SO many dogs out there who "look" like Pit Bulls that aren't.

    And, how would one enforce it? Would the city have to have someone at a dog park at all times to monitor which dogs entered? I know at my local park, you're supposed to get a license from the park to enter, but you CAN just walk in.
     
  12. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    The bully breed ban was considered at my local park (because pitbulls are banned in the whole city anyway it didn't really rub anyone the wrong way more than anything else)

    but at the end of the day.. it required a specially trained "dog person" to be at the park during opening hours to enforce the ban.

    So, it was decided that instead of the breed ban. The money was pushed around toward having someone there to just enforce park rules/dog play and remove any dog that shows aggressive behavior.

    The guy there now is watchful and has a catch pole, break stick, power hose.. and frankly, I think he is useful.
    BUT, big BUT here.. it's a private park and plenty of money from the surrounding buildings had to go to get this guy on a salary (not to mention his equipment and the camera that was put up to catch people not picking up poop as well as see who started fights etc..). Dog parks usually just don't have that at their disposal.

    Oh and he also gives tickets for not picking up poop and makes sure all dogs that enter have their license tags (given by the buildings we live in..so they are all properly vax and live in the area at least) which is awesome..because there are very rarely dog in the park whom we don't know.

    So while I agree that in THEORY the bully breed ban in parks MIGHT be a good idea.
    without the proper education/funds.. it's a waste of time.

    and with the proper education/funds you wouldn't HAVE TO have a breed ban.. you could just have someone there to keep the peace for all dogs.
     
  13. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    There are so many mutts out there a breed ban makes no sense to me. Its all about knowing your individual dog. And even the safest dog is subject to predatory drift. Has nothing to do with being a “dangerous†breed.
     
  14. Aescleah

    Aescleah New Member

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    I strongly agree with fran actully he or she could deal with small children and bone headed parents too and create a.job helps the community in general

    Ashley
     
  15. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    For the record, I used to spend a lot of time at dog parks in Idiotville FL. From what I saw with pit bulls, when they first bring the dog in the park it was obvious whether or not the dog was going to be appropriate. Most that had issues immediately removed their dog. To be honest the dogs I saw most that were problematic were GSDs and Husky type dogs. They seem fine at first until they get challenged or especially with GSDs, when a dog comes around their owner.
     
  16. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    I will never agree with breed bans. NEVER.
     
  17. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    The ban is actually at my work. It's a kennel, and the dogs are usually in playgroups for the day (monitored), and in suites at night. They've taken pitties before, usually without issues, but a month ago had an issue with one attacking and injuring a dog through a fence. No signs of an issue, no growling or fence fighting in the weeks before this, then a huge vet bill to repair the dog's ear. When there has been an issue it's like that. Other breeds usually have been fine, or if there's a fight, there's no blood or major damage.

    With the current setup there's just too many risks even if that sort of dog was kept totally separated, there's no way to keep the dog totally isolated - when dogs are coming in and out they 'can' stick their faces in enough for another dog to snap, and feet/tails/small heads can go under the fences inside the building. The dogs are moved usually off leash to pens through a set of gates and isles, so they go past other dogs in the process.

    When they expand they are going to make some more traditional style kennels for that sort of dog, but for now it's just not safe.
     
  18. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    We have a pit bull at my work that is our go-to to play with almost any dog. I still don't believe the breed belongs on dog parks but I refuse to support breed bans. If I did I would be damning any breed with teeth.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    If your work is not educated or capable of housing potentially aggressive dogs then I think they should ban then but I think it should be an admission of fault on the caretakers part, not the breed.

    We train, we refuse to run 40+ dog play groups, so we're a different world but we accept pit bulls with excitement because we're educated in containment, control, management, and know our limitations as well as theirs.

    It's just frustrating when a human screws up and says "well the dog caused it." No, you failed to be there to supervise interaction or contain the dogs properly when unable to supervise and now an entire breed gets another bad rap.
     
  20. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    in those specific circumstances I agree. bull breeds descended from match dogs often do not give any threat display to warn the handler they are about to jack up another dog. it goes back to their breeding and is also a huge part of why people always say "he never did anything like this before & he never showed any sign of aggression." most other breeds will give a clear sign before hand, bullbreeds might.what signs they do give are often not understood by even experienced dog people. and this is a liability issue. this is also why i think anyone who says "it's all in how you raise them" about APBTs, Amstaff, Staffybull, EBT, and even ABs (probably working terriers & sighthounds too) should not own any of these breeds. they are obviously ignorant of the effect of purposeful breeding on successive generations.
     

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