Brachy breeds health vs quality?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by frostfell, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. frostfell

    frostfell Kung Pow Fish

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    I've had an idea rattling around in my head for a long time, ever since I inquired into bostons years and years ago, and was told that Bostons with a little bit of a snout length were "incorrect" and "horrid" and "no good breeder you want to be buying from would ever produce one". Which didnt jive with me, so I just walked away from the entire group entirely.

    Now Im wondering if its possible to find a dog that is bred with just as much care, but with a lighter body, more leg, better angulation, and more muzzle, than its show counterparts? Particularly Frenchies, as they are a breed Id love to own, but I cant get over the fat cobby body and basically nonfunctioning nonexistant face

    What is your take on it? Am I doomed to buy BYB Frenchies if I want one that can function?
     
  2. momto8

    momto8 New Member

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    Our boston is a byb and has a longer snout. We didn't know better when we got him..but somehow he is healthier than a lot of bostons we see. He can hike 3+ miles with me and can even swim :)
     
  3. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    Depends what you mean by byb.

    There are people out there that breed dogs like bulldogs, pugs, Boston's, etc with less extreme faces. Some of them health test, and many have therapy dogs or dogs titled in some way other than Confo or via breed clubs. Not easy to find, but they're out there.
     
  4. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    http://www.htpuppiescb.com/

    This is a website that lists breeders who health test and there is a boston breeder on there, she also breeds poodles and is a vet, so she'd be one person to contact and ask. I did superdogs years ago and there was a boston or two then that did everything and was quite cool. I don't think it was a byb dog either. It's a reasonable request IMO so there shouldn't be a problem with finding a few breeders that would work with you. May not be 'next door' but road trips to get puppies are fun (until you have the risk of getting arrested of course.... but hey... :p).
     
  5. Kalyxa

    Kalyxa New Member

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    You could always go for the cheap knock-ff and get a Boston mix like Lola :lol-sign:

    [​IMG]

    Her snout is way long but she never has any trouble with swimming, running, or slobbering.
     
  6. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    her snout isn't long, dogs are supposed to have a muzzle. They're supposed to be able to breath without snorting and wheezing. They're supposed to be able to run or at least trot for long distances. The problem with a lot of dogs, is they're snouts are too short :) I swear some people won't be happy till they can breed a dog who's nose is coming out of it's own ass.
     
  7. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Bostons are one of those breeds where I just prefer the so called "badly bred"

    I am dog walker.. in Boston. I see a lot of bostons, frenchies and pekes (very common city dogs)
    and honestly, the BYB ones are the ones that have the longer snouts, less extreme features and honestly.. you can HEAR the difference a little bit of extra snout makes lol and can tell a lot endurance wise.
    ESPECIALLY when it comes to the pekes and the bostons.

    Typical show boston
    [​IMG]

    and your typical pet style boston
    [​IMG]

    Personally I prefer the typical pet style, Just a personal preference from what I've experienced.

    I think it's an issue of just finding the right breeder or rescue and i wish I knew of one or a couple that could point you in the right direction but everyone I know in Boston that has that kind of boston terrier went either the rescue or BYB route.

    I would kind of opt out of show breeders.. look for boston breeders who title in obedience or therapy dogs and such.
    Health testing is paramount, once that base is covered I would honestly just go with your gut.
     
  8. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    :rofl1:

    I'm just glad boxers generally are not an extreme brachy breed, there is nothing appealing to me about the things that come along with having a super smashed in face.
     
  9. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    I wish I could find a responsible, health-testing breeder that breeds boxers with a head like Gavroche has. Actually I really like Gavroche's build in general. Not extremely angulated, no huge wrinkles, and he has a face long enough that he can (and is allowed to!) run a full CAT course. If I could find a dog like him minus the temperament issues, thyroid issues, and bad hips, I'd get it in a heartbeat.
     
  10. Red.Apricot

    Red.Apricot Active Member

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    I've been struggling with this too; I'd love another peke like Zobby's dam. She was a pet-bred dog from a long line of pet-bred dogs, but she lived to be 19 with no major health problems. Even though she was black and kept coated most of the time she could run like crazy in the summer heat, and was active and outdoorsy.

    Zobby's got a muzzle;

    [​IMG]

    and runs 3+ miles without issue on a daily basis. It's important to me that dogs be able to run, but I'd love another peke.

    I don't know what we'll do when the time comes.
     
  11. Georgygirl

    Georgygirl Uffda!

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    Neither of my bostons are well bred. Joey can take the heat a lot better than Lucy. He rarely pants and can go all day. Lucy has a lot of energy but she doesn't handle heat well. Her face is a bit shorter than Joey's, but I'm really not sure why the heat is harder on her. Personally I prefer the look of a longer snout, but you might need to go to a rescue to find it. There some breeders of colored bostons that are getting into health testing. From what I have seen they tend to have a longer snout than the typical show version, but there is also a lot of controversy about breeding faulted colors.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    Interesting, when my sister was looking into Bostons and Frenchies we found several great breeders who did all the health testing, and had dogs who did conformation, but also agility, flyball, etc. They still had fairly short faces, but their dogs had high level agility titles... so I'm wondering how that would be considered lacking function?

    I get that everyone loves to hate on show breeders, but if you look past the top winning dogs, you can find some really fantastic breeders who breed dogs who are highly fit for function but also show quality.

    I think a huge reason so many brachycephalic breeds have issues breathing is entirely based on their weight. My sister has a Pug named Zoe who was horribly overweight when they bought her- and had the typical Pug breathing problems. When she took the weight off of Zoe, she was incredibly athletic and energetic- and the breathing problems were completely gone. I think the reason show dogs are so targeted for breathing issues is because they are kept so overweight in the ring (this is true for all breeds, not just brachy breeds).

    JMO. I think if you really dug deep, you could find the perfect athletic Frenchie without going to some random BYB.
     
  13. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    This. Many brachycephalic dogs that are extremely active around here.
     
  14. Grab

    Grab Active Member

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    I have no idea what Nog's breeding is, but his head/muzzle seems to standard. That is, flat. The breed is a bit different in that their noses are a bit upturned, rather than so pushed in. But still, completely flat. He has no skin folds to worry about. He's a very active little dog, though. His breathing is silent. Goose, who has a muzzle, is a huge snorer. Nog is a silent sleeper. He runs. A lot. We live in Arizona and he has no issues getting out and about year round. He routinely jumps our baby gates for fun. Two and a half feet doesn't seem like a lot, but he's only 7 lbs on a good day and he jumps it from a standing position. So, not all pushy faced dogs are incapable of activity.

    I do think weight has a lot to do with it as well, in regards to Pugs, Bostons and the like. They aren't meant to look like loaves of bread
     
  15. Red.Apricot

    Red.Apricot Active Member

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    I'd love to find someone breeding peke's that can do agility--that would be awesome. The couple of show breeders I've talked to indicated that their dogs have to be kept inside when it's hot out for fear of overheating and dying, which made them sound a lot more sensitive than Venus was. Being told that the dog can't go outside at all in the summer didn't make them sound like the kind of dog she was.

    I didn't mean to sound like I was hating on show breeders, just that the (very very few) I've talked to about pekes seemed to think that Venus wasn't what a pekingese is, and so it would be hard to find one like her. Kind of an if you want to hike ten miles with the dog, why are you looking at a peke kind of thing? I don't know if that makes sense or not.
     
  16. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    That is not true for ALL breeds. The collie breed standard actually specifically states that the dogs should NOT be fat. There are plenty, PLENTY of other breeds I've seen in the ring that are also not even close to fat.
     
  17. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    Oh, the BC standard says they're supposed to be athletic too :p Most of the dogs in the ring are very overweight. I just see it in so many breeds.

    Pekes are honestly pretty messed up. Their structure is totally messed up... they really don't do anything other than show. They are great at their original purpose (lap sitting), but that's about it. I don't really know what to say about that.
     
  18. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    The collie standard doesn't say "athletic," it straight up says not fat and being fat is a fault.


    There are certain breed that are kept fat for the ring. But NOT all of them. I'm doing conformation with Logan in 2 weeks, and he is NOT fat by any stretch. If anything he tends to be a tad too thin.
     
  19. SevenSins

    SevenSins APBTs & One Crazy Banana

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    Yes. Yes it does. And yet...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    What the standard says and what actually happens are not always the same thing. Most sporting, working, hound & terrier standards say something to the effect of "hard," "fit," or "lean" condition. Most however are fat, but that is because most people (show fanciers included) have no idea what a fit dog looks like.
     

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