Borzoi vs Deerhound

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Psyfalcon, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    Well?

    They're about the same size. The coat seems a bit different, what else? Afghans while we're at it?

    (The climate here is really not suitable for a Saluki!)
     
  2. IcyHound

    IcyHound New Member

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    All sight hounds but all different personality types and coat care.

    It depends on what you are looking for in your sighthound.

    As for the weather, a sweater and a warm couch is all a saluki will ask for.
     
  3. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    Salukis are furrier than you think and they grow a winter coat. I can assure you it gets plenty cold in the mideast in winter especially at night. the saluki should run smaller than the other two. I am told the borzoi is just as difficult to train as other tazi types.
    the deerhound OTH is supposed to be much more trainable, however i have been told by a someone i trust that they aren't always that sharp either.
    i know my salXgrey is dumb as a post, yet he learned everything the breeder said he wouldn't like sit, stay and heel. housebreaking was a PITA. he's smart enough to know when i drop the tail gate on the truck and open the gate it's time to go for a run and he heads straight for the truck.
    so really the big difference is the amount of effort it'll take to train and size and appearance. if you want to run them the deerhound will consistantly have more prey drive and put more effort into the chase also there is no legal quarry in the states they can't kill or hold.
     
  4. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Didn't respond to this earlier, because all I know about deerhounds is from hearsay, and a lot of it is conflicting.

    One consistent thing I have heard about them, is that they are crazy puppies until 4 years old, and then they settle down into mature adults that lounge around all day. Their gene pool is much smaller than some of the other sighthounds in the US. It's really hard to find lines that are free of osteosarcoma, bloat, factor VII (a blood factor in the spleen which usually causes death under anesthesia, dogs that carry it can never be anesthetized), and temperament problems. When we tried to find a deerhound for Robert, we could only find two breeders we felt comfortable getting a dog from, and neither of those breeders could find males unrelated to their females to breed that didn't have the above mentioned problems.

    What are you wanting a sighthound for? Companion? Show? Coursing? Other athletic sports? If you really like deerhounds, but want to stay away from health problems you can try to hunt down some of the guys that breed american staghounds. They stay pretty underground though, which is frustrating because I'd really like a dog from those lines some day and still haven't been able to find them! Some staghound lines still carry a lot of the deerhound traits like the wire coat, but are much healthier.

    As far as training sighthounds, it seems like it's up to the individual dog rather than breeds as a whole. Strider is extremely intelligent. He took a few days to housebreak at 9 weeks old. He had the right idea on the first day, any accidents after that were our fault because we didn't let him out right when he asked us to. He knows all kinds of little "parlor tricks", and is trained to be a medical alert dog. He does basic tracking, we're going to step up his training on that and try to get him to some tracking trials because he really enjoys it.

    Very true! If you want a hunting dog in a borzoi, there are some lines out there that are more consistent coursers/hunters than others. Strider's sire is great on coyotes and rabbits. Strider thinks raccoons and rats are his mortal enemies. He's cleaned out a lot of rats, but I haven't let him go after the raccoons. I'm sure he'd win, but I'm too afraid of him losing an eye in the process.
     
  5. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    Romy
    what are you wanting the stag for? i can put you on to plenty of people but they may not be interested in letting an untried pup go to a nonhunting home. if you talk w/ them they may be willing to let you have an adult that simply isn't cutting it in the field.
     
  6. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Sent you a private message pops. :)
     
  7. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    Pops2, do you take your Saluki hunting?
     
  8. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    My Saluki live outside a year around. I built sturdy doghouses for them and they are perfectly happy outside. They need plenty of freedom to run and this way it is easier to provide. I let them out several times every day without headache washing them and their feet, when it is rainy. My dogs chase deer, rabbits and foxes as much as they can. In a few minutes I am taking off with them again, good vermin killers.
    Winters in Virginia are pretty mild, temperature drops below freezing at night, but very little of snow. Plenty of hay and a good meat with phat helps.
     
  9. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    Femka is known in our family as " the black bullet". Raccoons, squirrels, even a bear. She is the " mighty hunter" in this family.
    Zubin on the other hand was rather slow to develop into a " hunter". Whether it was his physical or mental maturity- its hard to say which. Its only the last 6 months that he has " turned it on". Co incidence or not, it did not start until after Hotties death. ( either taking a back seat to hottie, or with time he grew up mentally.
     
  10. Boemy

    Boemy New Member

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    Whoa, I didn't know that! So if the dog gets cancer or something else that requires operation, what happens? Is there an alternative?
     
  11. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Not really. There is one university that does DNA tests to screen them and see which are carriers, so you can find out whether your dog has it or not. Unfortunately, if it does have the factor you just can never put them under. I guess if it broke a leg or something the vet would just have to use a local and try to have it fixed as fast as possible? Cancer is a big problem with them. The breeder we were going to get a pup from just lost an entire litter at 7 years old, all within 6 months of each other to bone cancer. With osteosarcoma, about all you can do is amputate the affected leg and hope it gives them an extra year or two if you catch it soon enough.
     
  12. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    What university Romy? I had not heard that either..
    And do you know what is involved to do the test?
     
  13. TheGoldenRetriever

    TheGoldenRetriever New Member

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    ^^^ Very true regarding sighthounds.

    One sibling had two Afghans, both from puppies. One was easily trained and not nearly as aloof as their reputation, he could be independent at times but as a general rule he liked everybody. Intelligent and a wonderful dog. The second one was difficult to train, seemed dumb as a box of rocks, never was 100% reliable on housebreaking, and had some temperament problems. Puppies were from different sources, but both from reportedly "good lines".
     
  14. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    This thread picked up, good :)

    I am terrible at setting on even a type of dog, so its a while off, maybe several years really.

    I really like seeing them run so various coursing type things maybe even ball chasing if I can convince one that its prey ;) I do however end up on pretty snowy hikes a few times a year. Its not the cold I'm worried about with a saluki, its the 40F and raining in Portland and hikes through 2 feet of snow.

    Thats one thing about Buster I like, he has a very husky like coat, he does not get cold easily, and it takes several minutes for snow to melt off of him. I don't think any sighthound will be that insulated, but its pretty important to be able to handle some of it- the potty breaks at least, if not the winter backpacking!.

    I think I'd go purebred though to keep lure coursing more accessible. Around here hares are considered a pest species with no closed season though. I wouldn't really want to do Coyote though. Now... if coursing Pronghorn was ever made legal, I would need to find myself a cheetah!
     
  15. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    We take Strider backpacking in the deep snow in the Black Hills (in WA state). He actually handled the cold better than the chubby shepherd in the pics with him. Deerhounds are really good with cold and rain too, remember they're from Scotland!

    He's a wannabe search and rescue dog.
    [​IMG]

    This is what happens when you step in a hole at 35 mph
    [​IMG]

    I wish we had access to deep snow all the time. His muscles would be awesome. He ran non-stop like this for hours.
    [​IMG]

    I'm e-mailing that deerhound breeder again to get the name of the U that tests for FVII, she told us once and now I forget, I think it's OSU...but will find out for sure.
     
  16. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    ufymich
    my dog is a blend of saluki & greyhound. he has caught squirrel, rabbit, raccoon, oppossum, feral cat, deer & wild boar. his sisters have also taken fox, coyote & bobcat.

    Psyfalcon
    you don't need a cheetah. pronghorns have a great top end but poor endurance. they could be (and in the past were) taken w/ stags, coldbloods, deerhound, borzoi & saluki. all of them are bred more for endurance than top end and can outlast most prairie goats at 40MPH. don't worry about the saluki. mine dove into a pond in a utah winter w/o any ill affects.
     
  17. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    My three Saluki live outside a year around in Virginia climate. I provided them with a good doghouses with hay bedding, when weather is cold. My dogs are very happy, living this way, because they love to hunt. I use them as vermin killers. Two times a day, when chickens are in the barn, I turn the dogs loose and they roam nearby woods and fields, chasing away and, sometimes catching and killing foxes or raccoons. I do not need to wash the dogs or their feet to get them ready on the couch and they do not need it. They love hunting. When time to run is approaching, they are barking and making other noises in anticipation of the hunt. I feed them raw meats, especially venison, when hunting season arrives. Virginia climate is mild enough for the Saluki.
     
  18. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    When I was looking for a right sighthound breed for the hunting purpose in Virginia, I was reading and asking owners of the Deerhound, the Borzoi, the Wippet and other breeds. First, it was hard to find owners of these breeds, which had first hand knowledge about their hunting abilities or at least what one can expect, if the dog allowed off leash to run free. One of them on South Carolina purchased a pair of Deerhound pups for $1000 each. Next year, when they grew up, the male chased something and never came back. The female survived for a longer time. He attempted to breed her one time and she gave birth to one puppy, because she had some hereditary malfunction. Borzoi owners warned me that these dogs can be prone to kill small dogs and farm animals, tend to run too far and for too long and get lost and, because they run so fast, they can hit fences, trees and other objects and break their legs. Even when running on a fresh plaughed filed, they can hurt their legs. Whippet owners kept their dogs only inside, on the couch and had no idea what would happen, if the dog would allowed off leash in no fenced area. This is how I found good Saluki in their home country, where they live off leash most of the time and routinely used for hunting. Saluki never hit objects, when hunting, use their noses, when searching for game and can hunt on the open or in the woods. Besides, in a mild climate, like here, in Virginia, they can live outse a year around. Just supply them with well insulted doghouses with plenty of hay. The Saluki is an aboriginal breed with brains to survive and hunt. Of course, I am writing about aboriginal origin Saluki, not show fancy strains, which possibly became big toy breeds just like many other formerly good hunting breeds.
     
  19. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    ufimych
    the saluki isn't a super dog, far from it. they have low trainability, aren't especially cleanly and are very hit or miss on performance and drive. that being said the two easiest pure breeds to find GOOD SOLID working dogs from are coldblood greys & saluki, the next easiest would be Borzoi, whippet & deerhound, bringing up the rear w/a line or two that is really worked would be the Irish, hotblood grey, ibizan & pharoah. i've never heard of a working afghan in the USA. as far as injury goes, ALL sighthounds have a chance of injury when running full out and they don't even have to hit anything. if you truly hunt a lot it's not a question of if but when one will get hurt.
     
  20. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    Borzoimam, I am very excited knowing that your Borzois have a chance to hunt. My three Saluki run every day. The female goes in a day time, when chickens are walking free. She is 100% reliable with goats and chickens. Males go in early morning and every evening, when chickens are in the barn. One of my males is very eager to catch them. I do not treat my dogs harshly, but he seems still does not understand that I do not like it.
     

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