"bone" agression...

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by luvmydogs, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs New Member

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    well..i tested magnum today for food agression, because the pound couldnt tell me ANYTHING about him. he ate, i touched his food inside the bowl and he was fine.....then i gave him a rawhide to clean his teeth...and i tried again, to take it away from him just to test him again, and he growled at me. i wasn't scared, but i told him its okay....and he looked at me sadly. so i'm wondering..why is there a difference between his actual food and a **** bone.lol i thought once a dog was starving, he would be agressiev with his actual food...i'm confused. :cool:
     
  2. stirder

    stirder Guest

    its possible that he had people take toys, bones, and/or treats away from him and doesnt associate it with food. try with different types of toys and see if its the same reaction. Ive heard of dogs like that but never had one. 2 of them were my friends dogs. his wifes aunt couldnt keep them anymore do to a handicap from a car accident. they didnt have many of their own toys but their were 2 very young kids in the house who habitually stole the dogs toys.
     
  3. BigDog2191

    BigDog2191 Big German Shepherd

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    Rocky was like that. It's very hard to fix and so far, even when I got some great advice with a bunch of different people he's still a little weary about me going around his bones...
     
  4. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs New Member

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    the only reason i am worried is because of my 3 yr old. i always tell my kids to leave the dogs alone...dont touch their food...dont touch them or pet them until u ask me and i give u permission...BUT u never know, being a 3 yr old, u really dont care.lol i was wondering if i tried it again tomorrow with reaching into his food, if he would show agression, and if this time today, just was a coincidence that he didnt bite me....now i'm paranoid....should i try again tomorrow?
     
  5. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    It could be that someone has been taking bones away from him to tease him.

    Now, I'd really encourage you to ditch the rawhide. It can be dangerous stuff. Get him some raw bones (freeze them first to kill anything) and start letting him chew on them while you hold them. Tell him to give it to you, using whatever command he seems to respond best to, take it and look at it, then give it back to him. ONLY do this if you are comfortable with it. If you're the least bit afraid, or if he's given you any indication that you NEED to be worried, don't do it. Shiva is so good with this that she brings things to me and insists that I take them and look at them - of course she does expect them back, lol!

    To clean teeth, a piece of (frozen and thawed) raw chicken - I understand the non-weight bearing bones are most effective - and let him eat that. No one can believe my dogs haven't had their teeth cleaned, lol!
     
  6. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs New Member

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    his teeth are so white, they dont think he's old. but he has a little grey on his chin. he was very well taken care of. now with the raw meat...i had given phoenix some raw meat one time, and he threw up all day, and had diarrhea for 2 days....but it wasnt chicken, it was pork. is there a difference between the chicken and the pork?
     
  7. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Some dogs, like some people, don't tolerate pork as well.
     
  8. stirder

    stirder Guest

    just thought of another possibility, strider does this all the time...with a toy or bone I can touch it and he makes a sound that very closely resembles a growl, and his first day with us I thought thats what it was and though "oh great, I have to fix (what I call it) toy aggression?" but I figured out later that night that its not a growl, everytime I scratch a spot that really feels good he makes the same sound. and everytime I touch a toy he is chewing on he makes the same sound. now that I have heard his different sounds I know its not a growl, more of a happy playfull moan or groan. may not be it, I dont know how load he growled for you. did you take it away from him?
     
  9. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs New Member

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    he growled low, and looked at me with his head down, eyes up..i dont know how to describe it. i hope u know what i mean by that. i'm pretty sure it was warning growl. i didnt take it from him, i slowly moved my hand back and told him:its okay baby" and now i wonder if i was agreeing with his behavior, by saying its okay, instead of saying NO
     
  10. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Your dog is displaying resource guarding and perhaps to him the rawhide is of higher value than his food. I don't know. But whatever the case, he needs to know that you are not a threat to his stuff and that you are very clearly his leader and he mustn't do that. So, what you do is a program starting now. This will help him to get a clearer picture of who's whom in the family. http://www.sspca.org/Dogs_TANSTAAFL.html

    Put the rawhide away for a while (actually, I don't like those either....can cause intestinal blockages) Get something else that he likes and don't let him have it 24/7. Ask for a sit before you give it to him. Have some special treats in your pocket. (cheese chunks or meat...tiny pieces) Get your playful, fun mood going first. Wooooo hooooo! Let's play a game. You hand him his toy or bone. Start with lower value items, but something he still likes. Then hold a treat out for him, but he has to "give" you the toy first. Then he gets the treat. "Yeah!!! wooo hooo! gooooooood boy!" Then "take" (put toy back in dog's mouth.) Then "give" back and forth trading the toy for a treat. Then make the game even more fun. Throw the toy a short distance and entice him to retrieve. "come on, bring it here." Hold the treat out for him and trade. Make this a game and make him see that you are not keeping his toy. He's going to get it right back again. BUT....be careful you do not reward if he is growling at you. Don't scold, but don't give the treat. If he still is reluctant to give you the toy, that means the treat isn't as good as the toy. You can upgrade the treat or downgrade the toy to a lesser valued item. He should be willing to give the toy for the trade of a treat and a whole barrel of fun and games.

    Do other obedience training besides....all positive methods, motivation, reward....make it fun. He'll respect you more and look up to you as his guide. He'll understand that you are no threat.

    Then after you get this going....get your child to tell him "sit" and then praise and treat. Your child can give him his dinner bowl, but first your child must tell the dog, "sit." And only when he sits does she put the food bowl down. Always supervise your child around the dog...always, always, always. But having her involved a little bit with some training commands and controlling his food and toys will make the dog see that all humans, children included are his guides and leaders and to be respected.

    You can also work on "sit/wait" before the food is put down. The dog does not get up until you give a release word, such as "OK." (whatever) If the dog bolts before released, quickly pick up the bowl. Repeat until he figures it out that unless he waits for the release, he does not eat. You are controlling his very valuable resources in a calm, civilized, non-punishing way. This is the sign of a true pack leader. You are not threatening or putting the dog on the defensive by harshness. Alpha wolves are not harsh. It is "understood" that they are the leader and they do barely any adversive tactics.

    So, do practice obedience skills every day a couple of times....not too long each time and little commands here and there throughout while you're doing your normal day's activities. When you're doing dishes, ask for a sit/stay. While there's a commercial on TV, practice a long down stay. (treat often and periodically, saying, "goooood down, gooooood stay.") don't make him stay too long at first. Set him up to succeed and gradually lengthen the time he is to stay. Always use a release word when the exercise is over. Never give a command you can't enforce. If he breaks the stay, don't punish him. Simply replace him in the down/stay and start again. If he breaks the stay, it means you made him stay longer than he is ready for. Keep him there a short time at first and make him succeed so you can praise him for that and he'll understand better that what he did was what you wanted. This is how I trained Lyric and now I can stand 200 feet away from him in my pasture, hiding behind a tree for 3-5 minutes and he'll down/stay in spite of quite a few distractions. Be patient, motivate and reward.

    I hope this helps. These things....obedience practice NILIF, working with your dog, firm, insistant, following through, consistant and fair will teach your dog that he does not need to make any rules. That job is taken. You're going to set the rules and he will become glad to follow them. No dog wants to be dominant. They only become aggressive when their leader is not a clear "alpha." They feel helpless if they don't have a clear leader and then feel the need to take on that role. This is what your dog is showing small signs of now and you can nip it in the bud in the way I described. Do not use aggressive means to over power your dog. This is NOT the way it's done.
     
  11. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs New Member

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    wow this is really helpful. i will start that 2morrow. thanks~!!!!!!
     
  12. Manchesters

    Manchesters Guest

    NILIF---what does it mean?
     
  13. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    Nothing in life is free
     
  14. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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  15. Barb04

    Barb04 Love my pets Staff Member

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    Doberluv, great advice and explanation.
     
  16. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Manchesters: I just know I can teach old dogs new tricks. LOL LOL (just teasing)

    NILIF (nothing in life is free) is the concept that to be a good leader is to control resources. If someone is having aggression issues with their dog, instead of attacking it (which only undermines your position as a good leader because good leaders do not do this) you have the dog EARN things he likes and needs.....everything. This makes a dog dependent on you and respectful of you. This will assist in stopping, if not stop aggression. Think of people you respect. How do they treat others? It's the same thing. I certainly would not have any respect for a boss at a job who treated me even remotely in the ways described in some of these posts. I would however respect one who, if I refused to work, withheld my paycheck. How could I expect to be paid if I didn't work? It's fair, it's a consequence of my lack of action. But it is not cruel or threatening. I still have a choice.
     
  17. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Dober... I was ready to post what you said. This is something that MUST be corrected and the play and treat is what I did with very young pups. Say " release" as you substitute the toy or bone for the treat. Some say " give" or " drop it ". Good luck !!!!
     
  18. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Yes indeed! There are ways to condition a dog from puppyhood so that you don't end up with problems later with aggression or distrust. I always say to people with new pups to do whatever they may want or need to do to their dog later in life now....while they're puppies. Get them used to all kinds of things and associate things with reward and fun....positive learning enviornment. (example: clipping nails. There wouldn't be a problem if it was conditioned into the puppy at a very young age and done every week or so.) But they need to learn a little about canine behavior and ways of learning. Then there isn't a problem later.
     

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