Blonde Collie?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Bodi's Mom, May 17, 2009.

  1. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    Sable collies

    I know these posts are old.. but I think I should clear a few things up about the sable or sable merle collies. Someone posted that a sable is a sable... not true. There are many different sable types. There are pure for sable, sable merle, tri factored sable, golden sable, mahogany sable, etc. The white collie pictured in a post above is not a double dilute merle. That is a white collie with sable merle markings. A double dilute is all white with just a hint of merle around one eye or on the ears only. Their noses and areas around their eyes are usually pink. They come from breeding two merle dogs together. (True with any breed). If one parent is a non carrier of eye disease, you will not have any eye problems out of these collies... that does not guarantee no hearing issues though. Most double dilute dogs are born with or will develop eye or hearing problems. Now, to clear up what colors collies and shelties are. Sable, sable merle, pure for sable, tri factored sable, white factored sable, tri and white facotred sable, white facotred sable merle, tri factored sable merle, white and tri factored sable merle, tri color, white factored tri color, blue merle, white factored blue merle, and white (with sable, sable merle, blue merle, tri (any can be tri factored as well). What does factored mean? If your collie is white factored, it will produce white and white factored offspring when bred to another white factored dog. Tri factored is the same. To get merle, you only need one merle parent because merle is dominant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  2. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    Blonde collie

    I am a collie breeder. What you are talking about is called a golden sable. Probably pure for sable. My first collie was one. He did not have hardly any white on him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  3. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Okay, so:

    Factored = Heterozygous?

    So the color gene that is "factored" is recessive, but the animal is carrying one copy so it's not expressed? So a tri factored sable looks like a sable, but is able to have tri offspring when bred to a tri or tri factored dog?

    Just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying.
     
  4. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    tri and white factored collies

    A tri factor usually has darker markings around the face and a black patch on the tail. The collie is generally a darker sable. Some lose the darkness around the face over time... the spot on the tail gets larger. White factored collies have full white collars, all white feet, and a very big white tip on the tail.
     
  5. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    Grace :: Collies010.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    Hudini :: Collies053.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    Hudini :: Collies071.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    Romeo.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    GracespupRuby2-1.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    Hudini :: Puppies3weeks086.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    Blue :: BlueandSpade002.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

    http://www.bewitchingcollies.com/image/Sheltie_Color/double_merle.jpg

    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1065/1479650091_e864899a34.jpg?v=0


    The first picture is of my tri and white factored mahogany sable female. The second is a puppy from her first litter...not a pup anymore :( He is a tri and white factored sable merle. In the second picture of him you can see the black at the base of his tail. The fourth pic is of a collie I owned 6 or 7 years ago. He is a sable collie. No factoring at all. The fifth pic is of another pup of Grace's. She is a tri and white factored sable. (not mahogany like her mother). The 6th picture is of all of Grace's puppies in her 1st litter bred by me. In that litter I had two WF TF sable merles, one WF TF sable, one WF blue merle, 1 WF tri, and 3 whites (2 with TF sable markings and 1 with TF sable merle markings). There are also 2 very tiny lab puppies in the mix. Grace had to play foster mom. The mother got ran over :(. The 7th picture is of the puppies' sire. He is a WF blue merle. The last 2 pics are of true dilute collies. Notice the pink nose and almost white eyes on the first one. He has sable merle markings. The only color is on one ear. The second has blue merle markings. I am not sure if this collie has eyes (I think so, but my eye site is not so good). Some dilutes are born without them (sign of what some breeders refer to as micropthalmia... which started from breeding for small eyes). Most show breeders say it does not exist and they generally use collies with mild Collie Eye Anomaly because their eyes are usually smaller.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  6. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    It may be a double dilute, but it sure is pretty!
     
  7. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    That collie is not a double dilute. If you google double dilute it does show up, but that is only because it is a picture of a collie on a site that talks about the collie colors. this is the site Google Image Result for http://dynastycollies.com/images/sky2.jpg There are 4 pictures of white collies on there... none are double dilutes
     
  8. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    That's for clarifying, that makes a lot of sense. :)
     
  9. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    My statement was regarding the color's name in the breed only, not the genetic aspects of sable. I just wanted to clear up the fact that there is no "blonde" in collies. What is fawn in a Boxer is sable in a Collie; what is buff in a Cocker is sable in a Collie. ;) That's all I was saying ...

    Thanks for the post to explain the different sable characteristics ... I think others will find it interesting. :) Nice looking dogs BTW.
     
  10. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    They usually have these characteristics. If there are modifiers that mask the white, you can have broken collars, and very little white on the tail and feet, yet by parentage (a white sire for instance) you know the dog is white factored, although you can't tell by looking at him/her. :)
     
  11. currywoodcollies

    currywoodcollies New Member

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    You are completely right. I thought I was careful with my usuallys and generallys and aparently I forgot a few. WF collies can have hidden WF. The break in the collar is usually very thin... the only good way to tell is the back legs and feet. Most non white factors have very little white on the hind legs and feet.
     
  12. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    You never know who looks back at these a year from now ... ;) We had a litter of all WF pups (had to be, sire was a white) a few years back and several had broken collars and hardly any white on the legs or belly.
     
  13. Bodi's Mom

    Bodi's Mom Hylen's Bodacious Big Boy

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    I have seen this dog and his owner twice since I first posted - both times in the same pet store. Unfortunately, I don't own a cell phone, so I can't get a picture - also, the gentleman who owns this dog is not very talkative. This is the most unique and beuatiful Collie I have ever seen though.
     
  14. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    We will just all have to imagine her until you catch them when you've got a camera on you! :p
     
  15. Q734

    Q734 New Member

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    In reference to collie eyes I was wondering. They look SOOOO different from when I was growing up w/them in the 70's....and I'm cringing inside thinking of a dog w/no eyes. Our dogs had comparatively big beautiful eyes than today's collies.
    Did the move to smaller eyes clear up "collie eye" (something I heard as a child that collies have eye problems) or is it merely an aesthetic move in collie world?
     
  16. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    Sad to say, but 75-80% of US Collies are affected in some way by Collie Eye Anomaly ... so the eye size has nothing to do with it. Eye sizes are different depending upon bloodline and the region. In the 1970s, the West Coast dogs often had larger eyes (and bodies) than the Northeast dogs, and the dogs in the South were kind of a mixture of the two. The standard states a "medium" eye, but it's all interpretation of the breeder - what one thinks is medium another thinks is small and vice versa.

    FWIW - The size of eye that my current dogs have is the same as the eye size of the dogs I had in the 1970s. However, my current dogs are also descended from the dogs I had in the 70s ... ;)
     

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