Black Russian Terrier? Pet or Killer?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by Arkady, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. Arkady

    Arkady New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    not yet
    Location:
    NYC
    Home Page:
    Hello all.

    This is my story. I have been afraid of dogs since I was a kid. However, I was never attacked by a dog, accept maybe have been barked at by street mutts when walking home from school, back in my home town in Ukraine. Needless to say I would get scared :). But, I always liked dogs ... and always wanted to own one, to be friends with and to have it obey, and most of all not to be scared. I always admired the relationships responsible owners had with their dogs, and always wanted to overcome this fear.. or rather distrust or complex. So since recently I decided that it's time for me to get a dog and I started to read up a lot about different breeds and training. I started to meet with the neighbor dogs and dogs of my freinds. And the more I learned about dogs and understood more, the less I had this fear. I ve decided that I don't want a small dog, I want a rather serious dog. Not necessarily a fighter, but a dog that would not hide under my leg if anything. However knowing my problem.. I was looking for a breed that is not too big but most importantly not too dominant and above all not aggressive, therefore able to be controlled by a super novice owner like me. And of course I had to like they way it looks. I wanted a classic terrier look ... like Airedale .. however after reading about his temperament I ve decided to research some more. I ve read character descriptions of almost all known breeds ... and my attention had caught this one dog - Black Russian Terrier. I started reading up online in the .com domain about this breed and was fascinated more and more about what people had to say about it. I even found the only book available about this specific breed (at least in English) - was a pretty OK book considering that it is its first edition. So all those sources suggested that even though the dog was bred strictly for army needs, and very successfully so ... when the breed first came out on 1930's or 40's it possessed all the qualities that you could wish for a strong big vicious guard and attack dog ... so despite that due to the fact that it also possessed very stable temperament and due to careful breeding since 1940s... the BRT of today is a perfect companion, has a VERY stable temperament, easily trained and controlled, dominance is not particular a factor (not like Mastiffs or Dobermans), and that the dog constantly seeks contact with humans, so defiantly not a kennel or yard dog. It also said that it can live in a not so small apartment despite its size.. and that for a responsible novice owner (that's me :) ), it is a perfect choice. Well and of course that the breed has kept all its initial guard instincts, however it was underlined extensively that the god is NOT aggressive not to humans for sure, and will not start with other dogs unless provoked. SO that's what I ve learned from browsing online. Well and the look of the dog I fell in love with :). So I have decided that this is the dog of my dreams - except maybe its huge size. But, I'm thinking since Ive decided to have a serious approach to owning a dog and choosing a breed with the temperament I like, I will overcome my complex about the size. So I started looking for all possible resources to find out even more about the breed and training. I even saw once a guy walking one ... I asked him if it was a BRT and he confirmed, I wanted to hang out and ask some more questions.. but they seemed in a hurry and left without giving me a chance :(. Although I got a good look at the dog -it was huge.. and magnificent. OK so then recently I got a hold of this little book of Russian print (at my friend's house). It was a book about different breeds. And what it said about the BRT had stunned me and well.. broken my heart. Anyway ... in a very short non descriptive manner it stated the history and standard of the breed and when it came to temperament it simply said that the dog is exactly what it was bread like - very aggressive, vicious, not to mention probably the fastest to be able to kill and adult human. And unless super trained the dog is not a dog but a despot (uncontrollable). So after that I started browsing Russian sites in the .ru domain. And many confirmed exactly that ... in the least that the dog is NOT a walk in the park, and that a novice owner shouldn't even think about it. And in all teh Russian sourses I came across it said those things in teh same short non descriptive manner, as if - its a fact and tahst all tehre is to it! Also I have talked to people who claimed to know owners of BRT, and they also confirmed that the breed is SUPER serious. But when one takes a look at the American or British websites - BRT is not a dog but a teddy bear. I am completely confused.

    I would love to hear from real owners of this breed and/or people who ve had close contact with these dogs. Shed some light my friends, and give an advice. Any comments will be appreciated and respected.
     
  2. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    A good source might be to find a dedicated Russian Terrier forum where you can communicate directly with owners. Also, most breeders are thrilled to answer intelligent questions - which you are asking - and where distance is not impossible, let you come and visit to see for yourself. Just make sure you are dealing with a reputable, responsible breeder. There is a thread here on the forum started by Serena (I think she started it) that is an excellent checklist to to use in evaluating a breeder.

    I suspect that the British and U.S. lines have bred the dominance and protective qualities down, much like some of the show lines of the Fila Brasileiro being imported from Brazil. They're intriguing dogs; I've looked at them many times on breed websites and I completely understand how you've gotten hooked on them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2004
  3. Mz_Mutley

    Mz_Mutley Owned By Neos

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    6
    Location:
    Australia
    Home Page:
    Hi there Arkady,
    I am also looking at buying a black russian terrier in the near future and I have done a lot of research on the breed. First of all my advice to you is take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt, for every piece of truth on the net there is a handful of lies. I have been and seen multiple black russian terriers in the flesh and they did not jump at me trying to rip my head off.... none of the BRTs I have seen have been aggressive in anyway. All the BRT breeders that I have spoken to have said that they have a very similar temperament to a Neapolitan Mastiff. Black Russian Terriers can be a dominant breed, but please understand that there is a HUGE difference between being dominant and being aggressive. I have a male neapolitan mastiff who is a very dominant dog and he is in no way aggressive, he runs around with kids, goes to nursing homes, plays with other dog...etc. all with out a problem. A dominant dog just needs good training, and you can do this even if you are a first time dog owner as long as you are willing to put in the time and effort that it requires, there is truth in some of what you have heard, there are breeds out there that are probably easier for a first time dog owner but a BRT is not impossible for you. You also need to research a breeder very carefully, to a certian extent temperament is genetic so if you are after a family pet look for a breeder that breeds for show, agility, obedience... etc. not for schultzhund as people breeding for schultzhund are generally after dogs with a fiery temperament, therefore this is what they will be using in their breeding program. Before you even think about getting the dog, locate a good obedience instructor in your area that is willing to help you with the training of your pup so that you can learn all you need to know to raise a happy well adjusted pup. And the most important thing.... start training and socialising as soon as possible... remember the BRT is a giant breed and they need to be trained while young, while you are still physically stong enough to be in control, that way by the time you are not big enough anymore your dog will already know that you are in charge. Basically what I am trying to say is you are capable of owning a well adjusted BRT, but think carefully about weather you are willing to put in the time with training to get there before you buy a pup and don't forget to look at the temperament of the parents as this is generally a clear indication of what you will end up with in your pup. All guarding breeds (and any dog for that matter) is dangerous in the wrong hands. I am sure that you will make an eduacted decision and the one that is right for you, good on you for going out and doing your research on different breeds before buying, I am sure if more people followed your example there would be a far lesser number of dogs ending up in pounds/shelters. As to the things that you have read on the internet about them not being dominant and being big teddy bears, unfortunately the dog world has plenty of people in it that are more interested in making money than they are their dogs (and this is certainly not limited to people with BRTs) and will tell people exactly what they want to hear to make a sale, so keep that in mind when you are talking to breeders.

    Good Luck and I hope that this post has been able to help you.

    Cheers
    Mz Mutley :D
     
  4. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    You bring up some good points, Mz. Muttley. One thing I have learned from owning Filas is that different continents often breed for different characteristics. Right now, it seems that many of the North American Fila breeders are holding more truly to the ojeriza and herding instincts of the breed and too many of the European breeders and even the Brazilians are sacrificing those aspects of temperament to obtain a more tractable, sellable dog. I'd be willing to suspect that the Black Russian Terriers in the Ukraine and throughout most of Russia are still being bred with the true, hard temperament they were originally developed with, and some of the lines in other places are breeding that temperament down.

    All in all, a 120 pound Terrier (even though they aren't purely Terrier) probably isn't the best choice of dog for a novice owner, especially one who's been somewhat afraid of dogs, to start out with. Even a 10 pound Terrier is a real handful! LOL
     
  5. Mz_Mutley

    Mz_Mutley Owned By Neos

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    6
    Location:
    Australia
    Home Page:
    Yet again renee I agree with you. I tried not to just send a post that said don't go and buy that breed because generally if people have their mind set on something they will do it regardless. Instead hopefully now Arkady will read my post and realise the responsibilities involved with such a breed. It is possible for the first time owner to have a breed like a BRT but not with out a HUGE amount of work.

    I have found that in Australia the temperament of the neo is not being forgot but the soundness certainly is. Many (but not all) breeders are breeding with the intention of producing increadably typy dogs but the soundness and health of the dogs is being left by the way side. I believe that a good dog is primaraly made up of three things, Temperament, Breed Type and Soundness.... In my opinion it is no good to have keeps of one and none of the other/s.

    Cheers
    Mz Mutley :D
     
  6. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    Mz Muttley -

    Here's a link you might enjoy and find informational as well, as it is about both Filas and Neos: http://www.mindspring.com/~anableps/fila.html

    The person this site belongs to is one of the more knowledgeable I've ever met. She and I and one of her Filas actually had a chance to meet and I'm still mentally sorting out all the vital information she gave me! :D
     
  7. Mz_Mutley

    Mz_Mutley Owned By Neos

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    6
    Location:
    Australia
    Home Page:
    Thanks for the website renee, she sounds like the sort of person that I wish there was more of in the dog world. I will be keeping an eye on that website and reading with great interest as more is added to it.

    Cheers
    Mz Mutley
     
  8. nicco

    nicco Wolfpack

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Bucharest-Romania
    Hi and welcome!

    The black russian terrier is the same with the tchiorny terrier?
    Anyway...I think (like I've said) that the dog will be exactly how you want it to be and mostly how you educate him.Most of the time the dog takes after the owner...
    Good luck in you decision
    Nicco :cool:
     
  9. bluzqe

    bluzqe New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi there Arkady,
    I have a BRT, my best friend actually breeds them, I have been around these dogs for years now and have yet to have a bad encounter with any of them. My puppy is only 5 months old, his name is Blaque, I love him and so do my kids, however due to a divorce that I am currently going through I am going to be forced to get rid of him, all the apartments that I have been looking into to move in, do not allow large pets, and well Blaque is already quite large at his early age... I am positive that I would not have any problems with him being in the apartment but they just wont allow me to keep him not even with a deposit. He is actually from a very good pedigree, his mom came from Poland and his dad from Russia, I am not quite sure where the dad is ranked but I have heard my friend say that his grandpa is fairly high up in the pedigree, I got him because he was just gorgeous and I loved spending time with my friends dogs, she has 4. Anyhow I just wanted to put my two cents in and say that you are making a good decision by getting a BRT, they are the best dogs ever, I will be extremely sad to let go of mine but Im sure you have heard how hard a divorce can be, to be honest it tears me up more losing my dog than my husband ;-)..I am still in the lookout for a smaller home or an apartment with a back yard..but in case I just cant find one, maybe you would be interested in purchasing Blaque from me...lets keep in touch and we'll see where this goes...
     
  10. Arkady

    Arkady New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    not yet
    Location:
    NYC
    Home Page:
    Hi bluzqe,

    Im sorry to hear about your problems. I am actually going thorugh a move myself, and finding work. SO I will only be ready to get my BRT once i am satteled and my every day life is stable. However, I will still give it a seriouse thought, where are you located?
     
  11. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Well, everything I was going to say has already been said!

    Except I'd like it noted that both mastiffs and dobies are fabulous breeds. Just like any dog, they require training and attention. The problems people have with breeds like these is that they are extremely intelligent, and aren't always interested only in what you want them to do. Smart dogs are a challenge. But if you want a dedicated, gorgeous, loving, snuggly, brave, sweet, and brilliant dog, a dobie is a great choice.

    Welcome to the boards. I really admire you for researching your breed before you buy. A lot of people don't bother. Whatever you decide, good luck! Keep us updated.
     
  12. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    21,880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Tallahassee Florida
    i can see why you like them im not much for terriers unles the are apbt cuz i dont like the temperment but they are pretty dogs and it might be like the pit bull they just get bad press in some areas you could research the papers to see if that is the case. im glad you are researching and not just believing the sites that say they are aggressive.
     
  13. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi breeze !!! Didn't you go to your Dad's ??
     
  14. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    21,880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Tallahassee Florida
    ya he actully got a computer hes coming out of the stone age lol
     
  15. sharpeilover

    sharpeilover Dogs rule humans drool

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    10
    Location:
    bridlington uk
    Home Page:
    i live in the uk, and r hard to fine over ere, some one i knew waited 2 years to get one. i have groomed a few and very nice dogs
     
  16. bluzqe

    bluzqe New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well unfortunatly it has not become a must to part with my baby 'Blaque' I will be moving out at the end of April and I will have to find a new home for him, so if anyone is interested please contact me for more info, I live in Texas...8-(
     
  17. moe

    moe New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs 1 cat
    Location:
    Manchester
    Home Page:
    Sorry to hear that you have to give your dog up, personally though, I suggest you contact your breed rescue to see if they can assist rehoming your dog, they at least will be able to vett the potential new owners, not wishing to insult anyone on the board, but you can only know of peoples situation by what they tell you over the net, and from personal experience I have found, this sometimes does not match the reality of their situation.

    Mo
     
  18. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    55,166
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    be careful and make sure you check back with whom ever you decide..see my story in rainbow bridge..Charlie
     
  19. Martine

    Martine Trained by an Airedale

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 1 cat
    Location:
    Murcia, Spain
    Arkady, good luck with finding your Black Russian Terrier. They look beautiful dogs and I hope it all works out. I’ve found a lot of the breed ‘descriptions’ on websites are limited when it comes to Airedales and I’ve learnt more about temperament and behaviours from owners discussion lists so search out those for Black Russians if you can. Also I’ve got loads of general dog info from the people on this board which has really helped with some of the general doggie decisions.
     
  20. oriondw

    oriondw user not active

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,039
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My friend had one. Was good dog, but human and animal aggressive.

    As you might know, its not customary to socialize dogs in ukraine/russia. Serious dog comes above nice dog. :)

    He was good with people he knew, very gentle with family as well as a family cat.

    If you follow the basics of dog raising you will have a great dog :)
     

Share This Page