Bias and hypocricy of views

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by ufimych, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    There are always some people who make sense out of nonsense. It is amazing how many guardians for genetically degenerated and crippled by neutering and spaying dogs. Just take a look back, in times, when all glorious hunting dogs had been developed. They were bred selectively for working ability, brains and endurance. Bad dogs were killed, often by hanging. When caring of you neutered and spayed dogs, you satisfy your lust for control over disabled animals, so-called "family members", but you do disservice to the breed. All that guardianship is the first step towards eliminating dog ownership altogether. This is what animal rightists want. Those of us, who value dogs as dogs, our friends and companions, should stand united against this slimy ideology, creeping from town to town and from state to state. Watch for politicians before voting. For the improvement of breed, it does not matter how individual animals die or become neutered and spayed, which in evolutionary sense is the same as death. What matters is what kind of dogs live and porcreate. This is what is a serious matter of concern. Indifference will kill your dog haveing and breeding hobby. Way of life is shaping every breed. Disabled, spayed, neutered and chronically ill dogs are good for obese and lazy people, mainly urbanites. Who takes care of preservation of dogs needed by able bodied people, who like outdoors?
     
  2. Picklepaige

    Picklepaige Active Member

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    So....because my dogs are fixed, I'm obese and lazy? If anything, spaying them has INCREASED their energy level. We go hiking, jogging, and swimming all the time.

    Oops, guess I better stop, because only intact dogs are worth anything :rolleyes:

    And yes, I care about the treatment of individual animals. I care about stopping the abuse and unneccesary killing. Guess that makes me an evil ARista.
     
  3. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    Altering has not decreased either of my dogs energy one bit.

    Actually, I do have a disabled dog who became disabled *before* he was altered. I *thought* I did a service to the breed by altering him, but come to find out I should have actually lynched him from the tree out back.:rolleyes:

    To each his own. You go on and hang your "companions" because they are not physically perfect, and I'll enjoy life with mine.
     
  4. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Kenya is spayed because I adopted her and it was mandatory. but regardless, I would've spayed her anyway. but I guess that makes me a "bad dog owner"

    she also lives inside and goes to the vet.. shame on me lol maybe we should all just let the dogs in shelters die and go out and get ourselves some huntin dogs!! lol get off ur high horse ufimch, you are not the all supreme dog owner and your judgements are hurtful to some.
     
  5. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Lol Fransheska, I don't think you're "obese" either. ;)

    ufimych, I think you're romanticizing... intact dogs, of all things.

    Really, dogs are dogs and act pretty much like dogs whether they have their testicles and ovaries or not. It's a convenience thing, here anyways. Lots of hog hunters (you can't tell me they don't have some pretty hardcore dogs) have their catchdogs fixed... because pits are a dime a dozen and honestly, why go through the extra effort of keeping them all intact?

    Now as I related with cats, and I know with horses and bulls as well, keeping them intact for a while makes them more muscled.

    But behavior wise, I dunno. I don't miss the intact animal traits too much.

    ufimych, very few people on chazhound are for animal "guardianship" and mandatory spay/neuter. Most pretty much want to let you do what you want with your dog (ie, your PROPERTY). You're preaching to the choir here.

    I'm not sure what you want in regards to breeding? I agree with culling. Are you saying we should all work our dogs and breed them?
     
  6. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

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    Umm..

    My yorkie is spayed. She was spayed at 6 months. She sleeps in my bed with me. She goes to the vet when needed..She is not lazy, I am not lazy nor obese.

    My dog is a spayed "frou frou" dog.

    She can catch rabbits. She can do alot of things.

    I wish that yorkies were still used as hunting dogs. She has the highest drive i have ever seen in a dog. And i have been around ALOT of hunting stock.
     
  7. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    The most effective way for me to guard my dogs and keep them safe is to be their OWNER. As an OWNER I have broad and far reaching rights over my PROPERTY, among those rights being the right to defend that property from harm or theft. This includes the right to defend them from ARistas.
     
  8. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    I appreciate the list. I'll make sure to steer clear of those towns.

    I'm proud to be a dog owner.
     
  9. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Got that, CP. We should take it farther and let their Chambers of Commerce know that we will not do business, either in person or via internet with businesses located there and will be sure to route any vacation or travel plans elsewhere.
     
  10. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    There was talk a few years ago about designating horses "companion animals" with "guardians" a few years ago in some areas and for the most part the horse community stood strong against it (it leaves the door open for laws against riding them, driving them, etc). I wish we could see that sort of solidarity in the dog world with these things.
     
  11. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    ufi...

    ive come to the strong conclusion that either you dont read, dont understand or just dont care about actual responces...

    you come across as rather highly opinionated (in a NOT good way) and truth be told, kinda "holier than thou".
    you dont care that people have good reasons...
    you belive that the only dogs worthy of life are those that "WORK", (as a side note, again my frou frou dogs catch rate is higher than your WORKIGN dogs from what youve said AND shes a WORKING service dog, belive me, theres no job harder than being a service dog!) but to you shes a frou frou inside dog, shes small and she doesnt "hunt", at least to your standards...(which thus far seems to be the only job you consider real work for a dog.)
    you seem like you want to go back to the days of lynching dogs in trees...what about all those "lazy obese people" with their frou frou spayed and neutered dogs? mabe we should just lynch them along with their dogs since there obviously no use to ANYONE...

    as someone who is OBESE...yes...im fat...very much so...you have a problem with fat people?...
    id like to say that i am extreemly active.
    i work outdoors, i was a zoo keeper, i AM a dog walker, i work rennaisance faires (anyone thats been to one can tell you, while fun, thats MILES AND MILES AND MILES of walking on uneaven ground, loose rocks thro0ugh mud and horse poop and unlike those who just come for the fun of it, we dont get regular breaks, we work our butts of and we dont stop.
    last weekend i worked through a weekend with second degree sunburns, today it was on a little over 3 hours of sleep.
    i spend most of my time outdoors...
    i hulahoop, do yoga, pilates, i spin poi (working on fire) and i belly dance...

    at 300lbs, i probably do more outside in one day than you do all week in terms of strenuous phyiscal excersize...
    do you RUN after your dogs when they hunt?!

    as it stands thus far ive found every one of your posts degreading...
    you have a problem with people who spay and neuter
    you have a problem with people who have their dogs live inside (because that makes them frou frou)
    you have a problem with people who take their dog to the vet
    you have a problem with people who dont simply "let nature take its course" so the dog dies from something that was easily treatable
    you have a problem with people who dont "cull the heard" by again "letting nature take its course" (oh wait, we should all go back to the days when they got rid of the useless ones (like my frou frou service dog who can catch chipmonks UP trees) by hanging them from a tree... as a side note, not sure what its like where your from but that has NEVER been a common culling practice in any of the coutries ive heard of. letting them be "free" drowning, poisen, a club to the skull, dog fights, thrown to the bulls, yes...never lynched from a tree!
    you have a problem with fat people, (and all fat people are lazy)
    and you have a HUGE problem with anyone that doesnt feel the same way about the way dogs should live as you do..

    of course...
    if they disagree with your veiws they MUST be animal rights activists.

    yup, thats me...a fat lazy activist...*rolls eyes*

    now please excuse me, im off to give my horribly, genetically deformed, naturally unworthy, frou frou dogs a snuggle before i put my lazy fat butt in bed...
    gotta be well rested for tomorrow...where ill take my lazy fat butt back to the 350 acre farm the ren fair is being held on and spend my day walking the miles and miles of trails selling roses to support wildlife rehabilitation...

    oh wait...
    wildlife rehab is against everything you strive for...yup, gotta go deprive natural selection of yet another orphaned soul.
     
  12. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    My fru Fru dog live inside. Does not sleep on my bed and is on expensive medication to keep her alive.

    But guess what? She is one of the best agility beagles in the province right now, and she hunts Cyotes on a regular basis. She sees a vet regularly. But by your standards, because she needs meds she should be killed, even tho she is an amazing hunter.

    Yes she is spayed. Hunting with a pack dog who is intact is a nightmare
     
  13. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

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    Oh, where to start...

    To the OP- I do understand partially where you're coming from. I think it's really important for dogs who are bred for a specific purpose to do what they were bred to do. OR to at least be able to perform some type of equivalent.

    For example, maybe I don't have access to artic weather or a real sled, but maybe I can get my dog into weight pull.

    I also would not have access to live reindeer for my dog to herd, but maybe I can find a good place to test out herding instinct- like a farm with sheep or geese.

    I also think it's important for a dog to be structurally sound and a good representation of its breed- hence why I am for dog shows.

    HOWEVER- there are many perfectly good companion dogs that don't need a job other then being someone's pet. In my opinion, a dog doesn't need to be bred for hunting in order to qualify as an animal that deserves love.

    And I think that's really where the disconnect is. Most of us here love our dogs like we would children and family. It sounds like you love your dogs because they are an extension of your desire to hunt.

    There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's how many breeds started. But, there is no need to bash people who don't have working/hunting breeds.

    As to the spay/neuter thing- I think in some cases it's not necessary. And personally, I don't think it should be done until the dog is fully mature. However, there are people out there who just don't want to deal with the hassle of having an intact dog. Especially if they aren't planning on breeding that dog.

    Again, just to reiterate, just because a dog is not breeding stock does not mean that it's not worthy of love or life. My dog Abby is not breeding stock by any means. She's a rescue. However, she's a good girl and a sweet girl, and deserves to be treated well. We don't need her to be a pit dog.

    As for the issues that come with spaying, if the owner is active, the dog will be active. If the owner is sedentary, then so will the dog be. That is no reason to call people who spay or neuter fat or obese.

    To be honest, it doesn't make any sense, other then you just wanting to insult people because they have different views then you do. That would be like me calling all hunters jerks, or something. Very juvenile.

    As for hunting dogs not being spayed or neutered back in the day, well, I'm not sure they knew how to do that back then. But I'd say if they could have they would have. I can't imagine that a female hound in heat would do anyone any good while on a big game hunt. In fact, it sounds like it would be detrimental and distracting, which would cause the other dogs to possibly injure themselves or worse.
     
  14. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I clearly need to work on being offended more easily.
     
  15. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    I am discussing only breeding dogs, which remain not spayed or neutered and pass their genes to the next generations. All spayed or neutered dogs are "dead" for the population, although many of their owners treat them well and their life is a happy one. During recent decades most of formerly working (physically and mentally capable dogs) breeds declined, because they lost vigor, endurance and even desire to perform physically. This is because they live idle life, without the original work to a purpose. This is why I said that way of life determines how the breed would change in a few generations. Performance is maintained because of selection, natural or artificial one. Unfortunately, there are many dog owners, who keep a good breed, but they cannot find what to do with the dog, except grooming, taking to vet, nails clipping and showing. Instead of activities with the dog, people focus attention on dog's body. Big, or small, but they all are toy breeds. This is a fact of our way of life. We involved for hours, playing with all kind of gadgets. May be we do not need to know much about happiness of our dogs, except petting, fattening and taking them to vets. However, this is why it becomes more and more difficult to buy a good, healthy and intelligent puppy.
     
  16. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    genetically what you say makes no sense. If I take a great working (talking genetic potential) dog and make it into a happy pet... and it then breeds. The offspring will be the same whether the parent actually hunts or not.

    Now if you want to talk about dogs who have no instinct breeding.. that is a different story..
     
  17. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    Do i read this right? YOur against spay and neuter? 70 million dogs in the USa...you admit that it helps with the overpopulation problem but your against it? I can't even get my mind around that. I have had a total hysterectomy. Yes it hurt but would i go through it to stop the suffering of babies..you betcha. I wouldnt' ask my animal to go through anything that i woudln't. Have you seen a pup die of parvo? Have you seen the inside of a kill shelter? All i can say to your post is OMG:mad::confused:
     
  18. LauraLeigh

    LauraLeigh New Member

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    LOL:D Me too!!
     
  19. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Im done! Ok Ufimych, get off your frikin high horse.
    You may not agree with the way I raise my dogs, but you don't have to be an a*shole about it.

    Im not fat, neither is my dog. shes in PERFECT physical condition and so am I. Shes spayed, but that doesn't mean ANYTHING and that certainly doesn't mean that shes worth less in ANY WAY then your dogs.
    for one thing, if she gets bitten by a snake, SHE GOES TO THE FRIKIN VET!
    thats right.. i take my dog to the vet. and Im not even making $700 a puppy off of her, unlike you!
    I don't agree with the way you raise your dogs, I wouldn't buy a puppy from you if someone paid me to. but, Im trying to stay open minded to the way you breed/own dogs, at first I judged you harshly, but im trying to be open to different ways of doing things, but why should i?! why should I respect you and the way you keep your dogs, If you can't even respect the way I keep mine?

    With you, its like hunting dogs are worth something and the rest are just trash.
    lol so what your dogs kill animals? My dog does that 2! lol she killed a squirrel this afternoon, BIG WHOOP.

    What about service dogs? Police dogs? Search and Rescue? do you think they are worth nothing also? if so, you need a WAKE UP CALL

    Sure, my dog doesn't hunt or w/e it is your dogs go. and she doesn't live outside and she may not be imported or have the perfect pedigree.
    but shes MY BEST FRIEND, and im sure that more than you can say about your dogs.
     
  20. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Some of the more unfortunately expressed opinions aside, there are, in fairness, some good points in this post, even though they aren't, perhaps, presented as tactfully as they might be.

    If we look at too many breeds in recent decades, objectively, there IS a definite drop-off in working ability -- as well as health and structural soundness! Part of that IS in our fascination with looks and conformation and shunting what dogs DO to the wayside.

    Do our sled dogs absolutely have to run the Iditarod? Do our Australian Shepherds need to spend their days running across the backs of sheep? Dachshunds chase badgers through underground tunnels? English Mastiffs run down poachers? Bulldogs harry bulls? Of course not, but, for the sake of their health and the health of the breed, they NEED to be physically and mentally capable.

    There are good alternative activities that utilize and develop our dogs' innate abilities -- the ones that are an integral part of who they ARE.

    On our own forum, look at the difference in, say Laurelin's Papillons, who, although they're "spoiled house dogs" spend a great deal of time being DOGS, running, exercising, exploring outdoors, taking part in activities like agility . . . Or Foxy's Little Nekkid Dogs :D -- now, how many people would ever imagine that Chinese Cresteds are capable vermin hunters? Well, if we (the human dog owning population in general ;) ) paid half as much attention to "sound and capable" as we do to "pretty," dogs would be, overall, much healthier, sounder, and have longer and better lives.

    While the OP may be a bit over the top and less than adept at effective verbal communications, he's got some points that most of us here can agree with, and have expressed ourselves.
     

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