Barkbusters is coming...woooo (not)

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Dreeza, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, wonderful.

    BB is coming to "train" Camden tomorrow. I hope he bites her. (ok not really, but kinda...)


    What is so great is that I have SOOOO much sh*t to do tomorrow, so I was gonna stay in the library after class...but they are coming SMACK in the middle of my friggin ONLY study time, and I absolutely do NOT want that woman using any of her little methods with Oakley. Half the reason she is coming is apparently to see the interaction btwn Oakley & Camden since Oakley causes all the problems :rolleyes:

    This is just NOT what I needed...

    Luckily my click to calm book came in the mail today, so if she tries to tell me ANYTHING, i'll just politely shove it in her face & tell her to read it & then consult back with me, lol.

    anyways...just needed to vent
     
  2. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    Eww - that sucks! ((hugs)) You could always do what I do for methods I don't like used on my dogs - desensitize the dogs to certain cues and/or make them mean a cue for the opposite; I did that with the Cesar psssst thing (it now means go wild and jump all over lol) so you could easily do the same to the "bah!" that BB is known for...
     
  3. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Wow...Doesn't your room mate get it yet....that BB is the reason her dog's problems have escalated? The definition of insanity is continuing to use punishment on an aggressive dog and expecting it to become less aggressive. Or something like that....
    I just can't believe she won't try methods recommended by real live behaviorists, like from your book, CTC. I don't think I'd want someone from BB to come within 50 yards of my dog. I sure hope you make it clear to your room mate that they are NOT to use their methods on your dog. (not that that is any sure-fire solution)
     
  4. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    Me being here is the sure fire solution in my mind....just sucks cause it is really ruining my plans for today...but obviously worth it.

    Yeah, I;ve told her about CTC & showed her again yesterday when I got it in the mail...she goes "Oh cool, lemme know if it works, maybe I should try that..." I offered it to her right then & there, telling her it DOES work...but she refused since BB is coming...

    ughhhhhhhhhhhh. Usually when you observe mistakes people make, you try NOT to repeat them,...but for some reason she is insisting on trying my own mistakes with Oakley, despite the MANY times I have told her that negative reinforcement is WHY he is the way he is now...
     
  5. lisabobisa

    lisabobisa New Member

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    Hmm I'm lost here, what/who is Barkbusters?
     
  6. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    barkbusters? I bet they try to convince her to throw bean bags at the dog. Save the time and money, tell them not to come. Read the book, seperate who needs to be seperated till you done reading. you'll be better off.
     
  7. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    a really bad chain/nationwide training co.

    They use only negative reinforcement (well, other than saying "good boy")


    For instance, Camden sits by my door staring at Oakley....the trainer's solution to the problem was to walk into my room, squirt him with a water bottle & yell BAH at him.

    very effective :rolleyes:
     
  8. MicksMom

    MicksMom Active Member

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  9. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Dreeza, I expect you mean positive punishment, rather than negative reinforcement. (?) Thowing things at dogs, spraying things in their faces etc (pos. Punishment) can make them aggressive. BB's methods tend to put dogs on the defensive...never ever a good place to put a dog with big, sharp teeth and powerful jaws. I know one or maybe even two people on this forum don't think so, but to be on the safe side, I hope your roomy will soon realize the well documented facts.

    I just went on a house call this morning for a dog who is getting increasingly aggressive after his owners have punished him for not "minding." If he wouldn't do what they told him or wouldn't do it quickly enough, he'd get scolded verbally as well as smacked, yanked and scruffed. They need to learn HOW to teach the dog to do what they want and how to understand that dogs do not understand things the way we do. And how it isn't fair or logical to punish them. And they're conceding that it is indeed dangerous to push their dog like this because you never know at what threshold any given dog will break and it can vary from moment to moment or day to day. They scruffed him one too many times and he snapped at them. Now he's snapping even when they don't scruff him...just when they reach to put a collar on or reach to pat him.

    People forget, I think that dogs are a different species from us. The human race, in general, gets so bonded to dogs and seem to see a reflection of themselves in their dogs. What they see then, is some little furry thing that is almost like a human...should think like a human, have our morals and should value the same things we do for the same reasons.

    Fortuanately, these people seem receptive to changing the way they think about their dog and their relationship with him. Time will tell.
     
  10. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    Ugh Bark Busters... this BI@TCH, who proudly wears her BB trainer shirt and brags about being associated with them, is always at one of the local dog parks. She brings her poor, reactive Belgian Sheepdog and I always leave when I spot her. She'll be scruffing dogs left and right and pinning excited jumpy puppies, and lecturing people, non-stop. She actually screamed at Fozzie once for appropriately growling at a dog who literally bowled him over; while her own dog is a nervous, flighty wreck who goes off on other dogs without warning.

    A little mixed dog named Gus who used to always come to the hotel snapped at one of my seniors (who is a moron, btw) when she ran over to him and picked him up in the parking lot. He was very sweet, just insecure. His owner took him to BB and upon his return he was unrecognizable. He would cower in a corner in his room, and tense up if you touched him. He doesn't come any more, and I'm pretty sure he ended up biting some one. :(

    Just a couple of awesome BB stories! It's unreal that they are paid as much as a certified behaviorist to squirt dogs in the face and yell at them. Their methods might be effective for, say, 10 seconds... but who knows the reprecussions of creating constant negative associations? The best outcome would be a shut down dog.
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Did they come? How'd it go?
     
  12. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    ^^^Ditto
     
  13. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    Ughh, not as bad as I had imagined honestly.

    She encouraged my roomie to yell at him even more though when she is trying to take his food bowl....riiiight.

    The thing that I REALLY liked that she said though (since my roomie has it stuck in her head that Oakley causes all the problems) is that Camden is in fact the trouble maker, hehe.

    She said him sitting outside of my room all the time & him pestering all the time (she saw a very typical interaction btwn them) is flat out annoying to Oakley & Oakley gives him multiple chances to stop...which Camden ignores...and then Oakley lashes out. SHe also said that Oakley bounding out of my room and barking at the other Camden & Leo when they are playing is just him being nervous about their rough play & trying to be a moderator.

    I dunno, sounded pretty believable to me honestly...Oakley always does look so freaking anxious when he is around them playing (hair up, very rigid, tail straight up slightly wagging)

    What I don't get is how everything she says about dog behavior seems pretty right on in terms of what they need in you as a leader & etc etc...but their training methods are just so BAD!!!

    Oh well, I'm just glad she said what she did cause it my roomie seems to have now realized its her dog thats the problem, not my perfect, sweet lil Oakley (hehe...ok not completely true, but still!!)
     
  14. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    So she can turn him into a major resource guarder and dangerous biter? That's the dummest thing I ever heard. It's just a shame these kind of people exist....going around telling people things that can ruin their dogs. There ought to be a law!:eek:
     
  15. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    he already IS a resource guarder and a dangerous biter!!!!!!!

    Her reasoning was that he wasn't backing up when she would take his bowl away (cause he has been doing very well with that)...she said he needs to fully submit it to her or something.

    and btw, yeah i did mean pos punishment...oops. Clearly that HUGE convo about it didn't sink in yet!!! thanks!!
     
  16. lisabobisa

    lisabobisa New Member

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    I looked up videos on YouTube to try and get an idea of what they do. Most of what I found was "look how great the dog is now!" but didn't really show the methods used. I did see one where they threw a bean bag at the dog... I thought y'all were joking when you mentioned that. If I threw a bean bag at Domino she'd just be ecstatic about her new toy.
     
  17. Dreeza

    Dreeza Active Member

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    rofl, yeah...i've accidentally hit Oakley with enough toys to know he wouldn't care about that... but apparently they use chains too?? Luckily this lady hasn't brought out those methods yet
     
  18. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    a bean bag would be a fun new toy....
    a chain however...any trainer sugesting that...would find that chain somewhere they REALY dont want it!

    what they see and say about behaviours sounds good...but their methods are just plain bad. its strange i agree.
    but at least your roomie got a second person saying "look its not that dog its yours" and mabe thatll at least ease some of that tension.
     
  19. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Yup...he already is a scary resource guarder. The thing is, most trainers worth their weight know that yelling or otherwise frightening the dog in association with the human around the food bowl will escalate the problem. The dog can be rehabilitated by making the associations good between human and the food bowl. What a shame that this dog is going to continue to think people around his food bowl equal danger and that the food is even more at risk of being taken....so, he'll just get worse. OR....he's supress the behavior for a time and then one day out of the blue... he'll explode.

    Throwing a bean bag or other toy at a dog who is not sensitive, in play is one thing and like you said, can be reinforcing because it's play. So, in that case, they're reinforcing an unwanted behavior. (dumb) Throwing something at a dog who is frightened or startled by it or if it's done in anger can be quite punishing and can put the dog on the defensive. These BB people don't know what the hell they're doing IMO.
     
  20. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Ask them or ask your roomy WHY they think he should fully submit it to her. What evolutionary advantage would an animal have if they submitted and made no objection to someone else taking away their food? How would an animal survive long enough to reproduce and pass on their genetic material if they didn't protect their food? Ask them that. It is completely 180 degrees going against any animal's nature to expect them to submit in order to have their food taken away. THAT is why there have been ways developed by people who truly do understand dogs, to change a dog's way of viewing having a human come near their food...ways that make the dog happy as a lark to have someone come near or even pick up their food.
     

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