Bad Breeders - What can you do?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by BostonBanker, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Im sorry if you are showing working and proving your dogs and are active in the breed and do not breed allot.

    THe pups sell themselves.. Many of the top breeders with long standing in the dog community dont even had adds or some not even sites.
    Word of mouth, and a website , a active dog community does it.

    Winning Best in SHow does not equate come buy my dogs.
    Unless all you breeding is for show and that is another topic/

    Networking , return sales, good PR and a good work ethic makes for sales.
    Health testing , temperament testing showcasing stable dogs correct to the standard even at PET events generates sales..

    And the best part is your happy buyers make for sales online by saying heh look who I got a dog from. Same way unhappy buyers can hurt you.
     
  2. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs, 2 cats
    Location:
    N Texas, USA
    Home Page:
    LOL riiight. Sorry...ads do not a bad breeder make any more than lack of make a good one. One dimesional catch all's for something as complicated as placing puppies...where breed makes a whole lot of difference seems a bit of an exercise in stereotyping to me.
     
  3. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Stero typing is not the same = example I come from Brooklyn not all race people are this or that is NOT the same as the BUSINESS of breeding DOGS.

    FACTS PROVE IT.

    I am going to do a survey on the Buffalo News Sunday Pet Adds.
    I am going to go thru EVERY add and post the results .

    And when I do I have not doubt I will find more than 1-2 breeders out of 100 with OFA results = show title and or working titles. Let alone temperament understanding of guardian breeds.

    I will be doing the guard dogs first molosser fci group 2 working dogs since I am a expert on them and not little dogs.

    I will post the results on another thread.

    And the point is my first CAS came from a backyard breeder later turned miller who took out adds as well. Difference is I dont put my love of my dog into the facts that most dogs from adds are from backyard breeders.

    She is a Best in Show = Canadian USA Champion GDC Hips and elbow dog.
    Dont make up for her breeder being a bad breeder..
     
  4. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs, 2 cats
    Location:
    N Texas, USA
    Home Page:
    If that floats your little, red boat go right ahead...

    BTW...I actually never said "most" breeders who do ads or not...are anything. That would be you...;)

    I said I had found good homes thru an ad...and actually...all the survey'ing in the world...doesn't change that at all or make it untrue. So have at it ;)

    BTW...placing an ad...and responding to one...are IMO very different. One gives you a ton of control while the other might end you up in a situation where your heart makes a decision your head would not. So for the record...on this thread...I am addressing the idea of breeders PLACING ads.
     
  5. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    All power too you point is these forums are read by active puppy buyers.
    And they are kept forever.
    They are also read by newbie novice breeders who need advice.

    And the FACT is most should NEVER buy from a Newspaper Add.

    And the fact that you may be a great breeder is the exceptions to the rule NOT the rule itself.

    And for the record I am thinking out of the box and in regards to this THREAD which was about " bad breeders" not good breeders or you or anyone who got a ODD good pup from the newspaper.

    I think of all the sad cases and not focus on the few good.
    Because this will deter some from buying from a add.

    Personally think all that breed should be required by law to take back every dog they bred if need be. That would dry up 95% of all adds and leave the few good ones.
     
  6. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Malcolm, Kaylee, Rittie, Lizzie & Indy
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Home Page:
    Actually, it seems like locally- I'm in Gina's area- we *do* have good breeders who advertise in the papers. They're outnumbered by the bad, but they ARE out there. Mal's breeder advertised his litter in the paper in addition to in the local collie club news because she got more smooths than anticipated- had a LONG waiting list for roughs, but only (I think?) two homes wanting smooths.
     
  7. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Perfect post :hail:

    I may take a UKC add if I get more pups than expected next year.
    Or even take out adds in the same paper that has more bad breeders.
    But the add will cost me a ton cause I dont want the average buyer who reads those papers wasting my time.

    Also some great breeders take time off from breeding but still keep a add going in magazines and they sometimes take out adds online to say okay this year we have a litter due such and such.

    My add would start with " fencing required no exceptions".

    And after reading all those threads I did get educated and I do feel better one day If I need to take out a newspaper add it wont be that bad.

    But when I do work at the aspca I still would always tell the average joe DO not buy from a news paper.
     
  8. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Well I agree w/ HBH. Just because a breeder advertises does not make it a bad breeder. If everything else is on par, who cares if they took out a newspaper ad?
     
  9. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Well advertising has many levels and I think we learned any good breeder can do anything they want mags- even local trade sheets.

    Newpaper adds typically have the worse of the worse.

    With few exceptions.

    So HBH advertising was not the topic of the thread or the issue.
    It was many of these pls help me posts with things that go wrong come from uneducated people buying from these adds or worse yet pet stores ) who also advertise in newspapers.

    News papers do not have limits or rules about advertising.
    One add today had over 20 breeds.
    Magazines are a tad bit better since they limit the breeds and will suspend thouse convicted .

    Some multi breed website are better than others.
    Even Chaz had a convicted dog figther r listed does NOt make the website a bad one..

    I guess im OLD I was taugth you are judged by the company you keep.
    So I prefer to take adds out about me in Catalogs like UKC Premier, Rare breed issues.
    UKC bloodlines requires you to provide PROOF of anything you write.

    I wont even advertise in Puppies USA cause it promotes implulse buying on cute pup pics.
    And I dont want the type of custumers who would buy from a newspaper my breed.
    We get tons of rescues in rare breeds from these 'rare adds" .
    Maybe that is not so for other breeds I will reserve my opinion.
    2 Lines in add is simply not enough.

    So point is advertising on a bathroom wall would NOt make you a bad breeder.
    Bad breeders make bad breeders.
    But they seem to prefer newspaper adds .Thus the chance of finding a good dog from a good breeder is far less in a newspaper _than starting with the breed club for referrals and education.

    And informing the novice public that they can find good dogs or good breeders that easy in newspapers is wrong and is doing a injustice.
    The odds are stacked againest them and they need to know that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  10. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    here
    By simply telling people not to buy puppies from newspaper ads, you actually do a disservice to both JQP and to good breeders. JQP isn't going to the dog shows to meet the people who are breeding, JQP isn't involved in the clubs to find out who has puppies, JQP is searching the internet and reading ads in the paper.

    As Gina pointed out, a good breeder advertising on the web sites and in the paper puts that good breeder within reach of JQP.

    It also would be far better to tell buyers what to look for and what questions to ask and what red flags to be aware of regardless of where the breeder advertised. It would be better to educate newbie breeders on what to screen for when talking with prospective buyers.

    There are bad breeders everywhere. There are bad breeders who don't advertise and who are active in the clubs and the shows. A buyer who thinks that someone who is recommended by a breed club must be good, a buyer who thinks that just because they didn't advertise they must be good is at a huge disadvantage.
     
  11. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    No sorry im not, I spent 3 hrs on the tel yesterday and these con artists i found had great sales pitches and to the novice dog owner they sound like experts.

    Most dogs for sale in adds are bred for money not for temperanent working ability of health - Thus BUYERS Beware.
    If you see a add that reas Champion Mr Smith OFA Good TT bred to same - select pups available for application. HELL apply.

    If you find one add like that it will be one in a thousand.

    When the tides TURNS and most are good breeders with a few bad.
    Then I will change my mind.

    And I told you one day who knows I may need to take a add out.
    And I will still tell all DONT buy from newspapers.
    Because I have enough confidence in myself knowing add or not I will always have sales.
    And I dont care what others think of me cause I only do what is best for my breeding.

    IF one is confident in thier decesions and abilities one does NOT care what others think.

    Odds are that the chance of higher chance of finding a great dog is simply PROVEN not be a Newspaper.
    Want to gamble go to the SHELTER save a LIFE that came from backyard breeders, dont put cash in the pocket of a bad breeder.

    And if u hear that someone got a great dog from a newspaper add by golly go directly to that breeder BYPASS the newspaper process.
     
  12. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Environmental Science
    Location:
    Vermont
    I'm sorry my one little comment derailed this entire thread, but perhaps the conversation could move over to the other topic that is actually about newspaper ads? I'm not usually one to care if a thread of mine gets off-track, but this has been a gut-wretching situation for everyone involved, and right now I personally couldn't care less if this year's Westminster BIS came from a newpaper ad and also saved a dying kitten on his way to the NY. But I'm stuck reading this argument just in case something related to my question comes up.

    Thanks to those who had ideas for my original question. As I said, I have no idea how my friend will choose to approach the problem once she is ready to deal with it. It sounds from her research that people involved with the breed rescue are already trying to do something about this breeder.
     
  13. VonLahrheim

    VonLahrheim Since 1950

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4
    Location:
    California
    Home Page:
    Not much you can do. There is a gsp breeder who has had some aggressive dogs, nothing can stop them from breeding.
     
  14. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Verizon Wireless Retail Store Manager
    Location:
    New York State
    Home Page:
    In response to the original "Bad Breeders - What can you do?" question/topic...

    If they have a website, go to http://www.whois.net to get their offline information, if you don't already have it.

    If they have a website, contact the agency which hosts/provides the domain name and report the unethical breeder - there's a good chance you could get their website pulled.

    Using the information you already have, or the information gained from the previously mentioned website...
    - Contact the Better Business Bureau in their area to report them.

    - Report them to their local SPCA/HSUS or other cruelty investigation organization.

    - Contact their kennel club of choice and report them.

    - Contact the National Breed Club (whether or not they are members) and report them.

    - Search out and organize with other puppy buyers who have had difficult/negative experiences with said breeder and work on a lawsuit or other common goal.

    - Write editorial letters to their local newspaper (or any other major newspaper) or even attempt to have a full story done.

    - If you have their home number, call them with your questions and concerns (repeatedly until you start getting answers or they start owning up to what they've done).

    - If you have veterinary bills that are the result of their unethical breeding, start forwarding them to the breeder.

    - Contact a lawyer and really start to take action.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2008
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    Anyone who decides to follow the advice of that last post needs to be damnsure that they're armed with more than their own opinion.
     
  16. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Ditto and be prepared for these people to HUNT you like a DOG online and maybe in person -- If they find out you helped close them down they may just decide to cross the line of criminal behavior..
     

Share This Page