Bad Breeders - What can you do?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by BostonBanker, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I'm not really sure there IS an answer to this, but it's something that has come up in the past couple days with a friend, and I figured it was worth asking.

    This friend acquired a dog about seven months ago. He was, at the time, 10 months old. Turned in to rescue because, after three months, he started biting (no punctures) the owner. Friend was looking for a potential sports dog for herself, and decided to try him. The dog's aggression has gotten worse. In doing some research and trying to make a decision about what to do with him, she discovered that over FIFTY dogs from the breeder have been turned in to breed rescue, and every single one had to be euthanized for aggression. One dog put a child in ICU.

    And to make it harder, as she is trying to make a decision about the dog, the breeder once again has puppies for sale in the paper:(.

    How in the world do you go about changing something like this? Can you? I feel awful for the dogs, and for the people who get attached to them just to have to deal with the ultimate problems.
     
  2. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    Wow, what a difficult situation. Fifty dogs??? Ugh.

    I don't know what can be done, I hope someone here does, I'll be interested to read some suggestions. The only thing I can think of is to shut down the breeder based on unsanitary/unhealthy conditions where the dogs are being kept, or possibly animal abuse depending on where she keeps the parents. I think there's a good chance you could get her on something like that, because apparently she doesn't care where the puppies go, so maybe she doesn't care where they come from either, you know?

    My other thought would be, is the dog registered? Maybe you could go through the breed club and get something done that way, I don't know.

    Keep us posted if anything happens with this breeder!

    What breed is the dog? If anyone's thinking about getting this breed from your area, maybe they should PM you and ask who the breeder is so they will know to stay away! (Course, I'm sure no one reading this forum would buy a puppy from an ad in the paper, anyway, right?)
     
  3. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I'm guessing if puppy mills can't be shut down, a smaller breeder would be equally tough. I don't know the conditions they are kept in at all; the friend is trying to figure out for herself if she wants to see the facility (pretending to be interested in the new puppies) or not.

    Hmm, not sure. I'll have to ask.

    I hesitate to get too specific here. It is a herding breed. I think you are right that most people reading this forum would know enough to stay away from newspaper ads!
     
  4. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    The only thing that makes a difference is education . Educate buyers NOT to buy from these bad breeders. Support good breeders and maybe one day rigth the wrongs by becoming a good breeder.

    I have put many millers and out many back yard breeders.
    This in turn has me hated , stalked and threatened by their followers and themselves.

    When you CLOSE a miller u are taking MONEY their ability to work - as if you took money from their pocket.

    You need a thick skin and ability to withstand huge pressure put on you.

    I have a miller convicted that openly admits to breeding even thou suspended by AKC and UKC...

    So their is NOT real way to stop a bad breeder they just recreat a new name a new breed and move out of state.

    If you do go after bad breeders - make sure you HIDE your home address and tel #.

    Best of luck and power to the new generation of good breeders.
     
  5. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Point AC in their direction, with your research pointing out the deliberate breeding of aggressive dogs in their hand.
     
  6. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    Do you think the media would be interested in the story, that is a lot of dogs, so maybe it's big enough for the media to take notice, at least it will keep people away from that breeder.
     
  7. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

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    I would stay away from that route. All dogs need is more publicity for the AR's. It just makes the dogs look bad IMO. News reporters never tell the correct story anyway, they tell what will make them money.
     
  8. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    It sure has to be looked into !!!! There must be a lot of in breeding .
     
  9. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

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    Just because someone is breeding dogs with aggressive tendencies doesn't mean they are inbreeding. Most BYB's don't inbreed because they have a fear of it. They think they will end up with 'retarded' or 'deformed' puppies if they inbreed. It's most likely just someone who is out for the almighty dollar and doesn't care what kind of puppies they crank out.

    Inbreeding does not equal aggression.
     
  10. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Thanks for the ideas. At this point, I'm really leaving it up to my friend as to what she is comfortable with. I think once the emotions settle a bit, she will be able to decide more clearly what sort of action might bring a bit of closure for her.

    Apparently there is someone involved with the breed rescue who is researching the lines bred there or something like that; my friend has contacted them just to see what they know.
     
  11. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Warning about media attention - it will backfire any breeder that is breeding aggressive breeds or dogs that gets any form of attention can and will make sales to the lowest of the dog world. Who want aggressive dogs and whom believe all dogs should act insane in public.

    Any attention is better than none for bad breeders.

    And it will only add fuel to the ever growing fire of BSL.
    BEcause the morans writing them are NOT dog people and will use it to close down all breeders.

    1. Make a complaint to the reg? AKC UKC?
    2. Make a complaint to her local ASPCA.
    3. If you she breeding 25 + dogs a year she needs a lic in many states.
    EX NY 25 or more in one year you need a Pet Dealer lic and subject to inspection.
    4. Print out the laws on dog bites and liability especially CA.
    Ever since the Whipple case breeders owners and yes even rescues can and will be held responsible for dogs that bite _____ when the aggressive nature is known.
    This can inlude jail time.

    5. Send a certified letter from a lawyer if u can afford it stating we have evidence of such and such amount of dogs coming from your lines with aggressive tendancies, and
    "when not if one of these dogs doges serious damage to a "buyer" you did not inform or warn about their nature ., we will testify in court that you knew and withheld information that was vital tot he training and care of this dog. This will leave you open to civil and
    state action.

    Please note the above paragraph in essense works. I got contacted by a backyard breeder who got a pair of CASD from a auction . OF course had a litter no one wanted, and when buyers came the male was trying to EAT them.

    I called him and said when not if these pups dog damage I will testify that I warned you that some lines of CASD are not suitable for family life, and that they need massive socialization form BIRTH to 2 years to make them adaptable to US family life.

    He stopped breeding after the 2nd litter he got stuck with. The 1st litter went to the Hunt corp and was sold at Pet Stores in MAss. Where many got sick and later died.

    2nd Litter rescue took and 2 of them attacked the rescue person and were put down.

    And he says to all " I wanted one of his pups and i dont like him because he turned me down" yep I want a pup from unproven parents so I can ignore my 4 generations of tested stable dogs.. " Either way my threat worked and I would travel any where in the country to testify to save my breed"

    Sorry for the rant hit kinda home for me.
     
  12. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Tyr came from an ad in the local newspaper. He is my best - healthiest and most stable temperament - dog. He is everything a malinois should be.
     
  13. Good for you, and definitely good for Tyr!

    However, re: buying from a newspaper ad, I would say you got lucky, and in general do not recommend that people search for a responsible breeder in the newpaper ads.

    JMO as always.

    :)
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I agree and I've been there before. Wouldn't go that route again.
     
  15. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    It's hard, really hard, which is why they'll always be a problem. I really believe in the education part. Educate the buyers, but you HAVE to educate before they're even thinking of buying and hope some of it sticks. Even after that, good luck.

    I just had another friend, and trust me, they've heard me before about bad breeders. They even knew the story of another mutual friend that bought a puppy from an questionable breeder turned out to be broker and has a few grand into a genetically diseased dog.

    Anyway, his wife already put down a deposit to a rat of a breeder. There are so many red flags, and of course bringing them up now only offends her.
     
  16. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Luck really had nothing to do with it. I called him, got a lot of info over the phone, went out there, met him, met the mom, talked with him for a long time, met the pups, saw where the pups were kept, we took the pups outside and I watched them and I played with them, and I gave him a small deposit. I went home and I researched the bloodlines and I looked up the sire (he didn't own the sire). I then - a few days later - called him to set up a time when I would pick up the pup.

    Point is that just because someone advertises in the newspaper doesn't make them a bad breeder. I have nothing against buying or selling pups through ads in newspapers. Buyers need to do their homework regardless of where they buy a pup.

    Morgan came from a well known breeder and competitor who didn't advertise in the paper. Morgan's breeder was recommended by my trainer and by my handler. I trusted both of them and I took their word that she was reliable. I didn't do my homework and I ended up with a dog who has a list of health problems, not to mention I didn't get her papers until she was a year old.

    So it really isn't an issue of where or how the pups are advertised. It's an issue of researching the breeder, finding out as much as you can about the ancestry, the conditions the pup is raised in, references, etc.

    ^I agree!^
     
  17. Scuse me.

    You are right.

    I am wrong.

    ;)
     
  18. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    Generally directed...on the subject of ads:

    I have advertised in the newspaper and gotten wonderful homes out of it.

    It's not about the ad....it's about what happens after contact is made between the two parties. I have ads in sometimes just to give information.

    Geez "newspapers", or puppyfind.com, are only bad BECAUSE good breeders don't think they "should" or are worried about how their peers might judge them.

    Get over it...you cannot educate those most in need of education from your Ivory Tower. You have to be willing to "associate" with JQP in order to educate...JQP. :rolleyes:

    People don't always want to do the wrong thing...you can make a small difference. Even if that difference is directing them to RESCUE when you don't personally have something for them.

    Two of the current owners of the BIS WKC hound have ads on one of "those" sites...you know why? So people can FIND them...and ask them questions and talk with someone reputable and see the differences.
    /rant

    Personally IF they have actual factual information and pedigrees on the dogs...and a document trail then the rescues should pool their resources and place an ad right in that same paper stating...

    "SOMEONE who advertises here has had over 50 of their puppies end up in rescue for aggression...call us and do your homework before buying!"

    No names mentioned in the paper...so no libel worries. If someone calls they get FACTS which can be documented and backed up on paper....no slander.
     
  19. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Corgi pet owners need to stop using exceptions to the rule as proof thier dog is good or great.

    Most breeders who advertise in papers BRED a litter without getting buyers BEFORE they bred. That alone make them a backyard breeder.

    If pet owners stopped taking everything so personal because they tie their ego and love of their dog from millers adds rescue into their own acceptance as humans-Education would start.

    Most breeders who advertise in the paper result in rescue , and horrors.

    And yes you were lucky that a breeder who may not fit the mold of bad breeders advertised in your paper.

    I can cut and past hundreds of thousands of bad cases, I personally had dealed with hundreds in rescue from adds before the net existed.

    Here are legit excuses for adds:
    A. Pet owner had accidental litter spays bitch but needs homes for pups.
    B Good breeder wants to find LOCAL homes and is willing to cut deals for dogs they wish to see develop.
    C. Good people finding rescues or pregnant dogs.
    D. Good breeder has accidental litter and needs to find homes ASAP.
    E. Dog laws change how many dogs you can have u are a good breeder and need to find good homes.

    All above requiring the buyer to submit a application process.
     
  20. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    WHOA.. The breed club needs to be notified. They will know how to proceed.. (ie which agencies to contact etc..)
     

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