An idea came to me...

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by nedim, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    There have always been dog fights in Albany, but lately its been getting heavy. Talk of the two stolen pits the other day makes me want to do something about the problem. I don't think it will be too long before we get slapped with BSL. So, heres what I'm thinking: I want to start breeding/showing pitbulls around my area and providing responsible owners with well tempered, healthy, and all around ideal pit pups. I want to show those who are opposed to bully breeds and those who are on the fence that a pit bull is no more aggressive (when properly raised) then say, a lab. The way I see it, the less people that are scared of or opposed to pits and other bully breeds, the less chance we have of BSL banning the bullys. I know that this will most likely be a life-long dedication and that it requires an investment of time, money, and love but its something that I want to pursue. Of course, I can't do this anytime soon due to a lack of resources, but its never to early to start getting experience with dog breeding.

    My questions to the breeders are:

    - What is a good way to get involved with breeding at my age. How can I gain some experience for later on?

    - What kind of health checks are necessary to be passed before breeding?

    - Roughly, how much money should be expected to be invested in a period of one year?

    - I heard that in a good year, the breeder will break even. True or False?

    - Whats a decent price to sell the pups at? What factors should determine the price?

    - Is it wise to use a stud service?


    Thanks for reading, if anyone has any input, please feel free to post. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon.
     
  2. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I'll have to do some heavy thinking on this one.....think you should too..........Don't count on making any money !!
     
  3. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    Honestly, I'm not in it for the money.
     
  4. rottiegirl

    rottiegirl Guest

    I think that the prices vary depending on the bloodline you use. Other factors go into it also. Are you going to register the dogs and puppies?
     
  5. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    I want to get them registered, yes.
     
  6. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

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    i dont think that there is really a need to breed pit bulls, not in this area of the country. there are some really good breeders, but there are TONS of pits in rescues and shelters -- unless you have the time, money and experience to do it WELL (have you even owned a pit before?) - and doing it will involves complete health testing, titling the dogs, working them, showing them - then just focus on rescue and education.

    have you spoken to pit rescuers, or been to pit bull boards?
    you may want to check out www.pitbullforum.com
     
  7. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

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    - What is a good way to get involved with breeding at my age. How can I gain some experience for later on?- What kind of health checks are necessary to be passed before breeding?

    personally at this time you havent even owned the breed or shown a dog - before you get anywhere near breeding, you need a lot more years of experience just being a DOG owner - find out what its like to own a pit, the issues associated with it, and the problems and such. find out what it takes to show and train a dog - find out what life is like with a bully breed. after you have lived this for a few years, THEN consider what it takes to breed (if you even want to do that)

    - Roughly, how much money should be expected to be invested in a period of one year?
    depends on the number of dogs you have, and what you do. showing your dog in breed ring and actually in ANYTHING - is expensive. every time i went to a show, it cost me about 300 each weekend, more if i was travelling far or staying in hotels.

    some links:
    http://www.dpca.org/before.you.breed.html
    http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/7244/costs.html

    in short - thousands. even if you arent breeding. showing and owning show dogs (be they obedience, breed ring, agility, etc) costs you a TON.


    - I heard that in a good year, the breeder will break even. True or False?


    false, IMO and IME with other breeders. unless you are breeding an insane amount of litters (which is in and of itself wrong), theres no way to break even or get ahead.

    - Whats a decent price to sell the pups at? What factors should determine the price?
    this really depends on the dog. would i pay 1200 bucks for the pup from muffy and fluffy, because they were cute? nope. would i pay 1800 for a pup from titled on both ends parents, who have complete health testing, from a breeer with a reputation that shows she is working towards breeding a total dog? of course.


    - Is it wise to use a stud service?
    no reason not to - its very rare that the BEST DOG for your bitch is the one in your own household - breeding is about bettering the breed, not just making puppies. you need to find the right dog that matches the bitch - this involves pedigree evaluation, checking health clearances, finding out what the faults are and how you can improve BOTH dogs, etc.
     
  8. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    I personally would get a Pit as a pet before you decide to breed. Really decide if this is the breed for you and if you want to dedicate yourself to breeding.
    Best thing I can suggest as far as gaining experience and "getting your feet wet" in breeding, showing and training is to talk to as many people as possible. Learn the standard, and go to some shows. Look at the dogs and judge them yourself, get to know the breed. Get to know what a good temperament is, then go to trials and watch the dogs at work. In just being there you will learn so much about the breed, and will most likely get a chance to get your hands on some nice dogs. If you get to talking to someone and you like them, give them your phone number or email address, or get theirs. It's good to have those contacts, and you can meet up at shows if they're going to be in the area. Some of the people you meet will be breeders who may be able to help you along the way.
    As far as money goes, don't expect to break even or make money. I expect to lose a few thousand dollars on a litter, and that's only if everything goes perfectly as planned. (never does.)
    I have a dog that I'm going to be showing in agility and in preparing for it I've found that it is NOT cheap to title your dogs. If you only go to local shows, it's less expensive but entry fees will add up, as can the costs of equipment, training, medical care and not to mention a LOT of your time. By the time Dakota is ready to compete I'll probably be out a couple thousand dollars. If you're showing in the breed ring and don't want to handle your dog yourself, you'd pay for a professional handler which can run you about $100/day. (Some charge less, some charge more)

    I'd definitely recommend getting involved with the breed before making any decisions to breed. If you decide you really love the breed and want to get one, I would personally get a pet quality dog first and title it in weight-pull, agility, obedience etc. and prove yourself as a dedicated owner. If you have a neutered pet you can still learn to handle, and junior handling is a great way to prepare yourself for the breed ring.. Being active in competition with your pets will be a huge push in the right direction when you decide you want a foundation stud/bitch and make inquiries with breeders. A good breeder is far more likely to place a show quality dog/bitch in a home that is experienced with the breed and dogs in general, rather than somebody who is very new to it all.
     
  9. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    Thanks for all the input.

    This is definately a plan for the distant future. I just want to know how I can gain experience and prepare myself for whatever may face me. I think its a good idea, what with the byb's ruining what responsible breeders have gained. I'm not going to rush into it, I know the risks and I understand the shelter issue. I just dont want to see this breed banned. I like the idea of adopting a pit, I always wanted to own one. Im going to see if there are any shows around I can attend to get a better feel for the breed.
     
  10. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    Gempress posted a similar question here recently.

    Not to repeat myself, but in my opinion, the best way to go about this is to find a mentor who is willing to take on an "apprentice" so to speak and teach you all they know. You might be required to put in your share of work (clean kennels, run errands, help feeding, grooming and exercising dogs etc.), but I don't have the slightest doubt that you'd have fun doing it. I know i did. :)
     
  11. amymarley

    amymarley New Member

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    Again, I am not bashing breeders, which a lot of people think or thought I did.....I don't. I love good breeders and I want to keep good bloodlines out there too. I don't want to see a breed gone... but i am for rescue.
    As for pits, I love them. I went to the Neveda (northern, Reno) Human Society website the other day, just to check it out... there ARE SOOOOOO many pits in there. Really nice looking pits. More than anyother breed.

    I think that if I wanted to breed a dog, I would do a give and take..... Take in a few pits as foster, find good homes and then if and when you have the heart and knowledge, it is your right to breed if you want. And then do it again. Again, I am not taking away from breeders or bashing, I just want the Human Societies to go out of business...(you know what I mean.) Good luck.
     
  12. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    I appreciate all the replies.


    Mordy, what kind of people should I turn to if Im looking to be an apprentice? It'll be tough to find a real breeder in or around Albany. i think I want to start off slow, working in a shelter. The shelter i got Peanut from has mostly pits and pit mixes, so maybe that could give me a chance to work a bit closer with the breed.
     
  13. Mordy

    Mordy Quigleyfied

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    Well, I did mean a breeder, but if that's a problem locally where you are, working at a shelter/humane society would definitely be great as well. Also look into breed-specific rescues, and see if you can make friends with any responsible pit owners in your area, even if they don't breed. Mybe look into members of weight pulling organizations etc. :)
     
  14. nedim

    nedim New Member

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    Thats a great idea. There are bound to be plenty of pit rescues. Thanks.
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    You might even find that specializing in rehabilitating Pits and other Bully breeds is a great outlet . . .
     
  16. Serena

    Serena New Member

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    You have already been given some excellent advice on how to get started as a breeder and what to expect and I am sure that your heart is in the right place, there is something I want you to honestly ask yourself before you decide that you definately want to breed...Please understand it is not my desire or intention to bash you or make you feel bad...it is however my intention and desire to make you honestly look within yourself for answers only you can give....

    I almost wonder if you only want to breed because of BSL happening and the fear it will one day affect you...would you still have a desire to breed Pits if the public viewed them in the same light as say a Lab?

    If your only reason for breeding is to stop BSL then I am going to be honest with you then breeding is not the right path for you...if you want to make a difference for the breeds effected by BSL...then be an embassador for that breed by educating the public about it and clearing up stereotypes...You may want to volunteer with a rescue group, give lectures, perhaps write an article on the breed for your local paper...There are many ways to shed positive light on this wonderful breed without actually breeding them yourself.

    It is not BSL or stereotypes on a breed that should fuel your desire to breed, rather your desire to breed should be fueled by a passion and love for the breed so deep it hurts at times...Breeding is about improving the breed, doing your chosen breed justice and making a commitment to the ensure that tommorow holds a brighter future not just for your dogs in general but the breed as a whole..Are you really ready to take on this level of responsibility?

    Breeding is such a difficult path, It takes years of hard work and dedication in study alone..It is mentally, emotionally, and finacially exhausting at times, it means accepting that no matter how much effort you put into breeding and how much you learn there are no guarantees and heartache can happen in an instant...

    Is this a path you are really ready to walk? Walk it only if you are ready to take on the highest level of commitment and ethics...Walk it only if you will do this breed justice...If there is even the slightest doubt or hesitation in your mind that you can not commit properly to this path then please turn away..



    This really concerns me, I know for myself if I am looking at breed X I want to hear the positives and negatives of breed X...I don't want to hear how it has the same temperament, trainability, ect...as Breed Y. Comparing a Pit to the Lab is just setting the Pit up for failure because it is not a Lab, and should be respected for its own individual breed qualities...
     
  17. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

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    especially when the whole thing IS - that pits can be and ARE dog aggressive. its in the breed. they are NOT labs.

    i agree - breeding is done because you want to better the breed - not show others that you dont like BSL. BSL and education can be done with any well mannered pit bull.
     
  18. champagne

    champagne New Member

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    I totally agree with Serena and the other posters. There are so many pit and pit mixes out there without homes that breeding these dogs at this time will not help the breed out. There are responsible breeders out there looking to better the breed, but what is needed IMO is the education to the public and BYB as to what is happening with these dogs by not being responsible owners and breeders.

    You might find it very rewarding to just be helping out the breed by fostering and working with pits in need. I agree with this
     

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