Last spring I was camping up by Brainerd in May or June and they were climbing ALL OVER my stuff. Like... the tent, my camp chair, the firewood, my extra pair of shoes, me, the dogs. Every time I turned around, everything was covered in ticks. I just really didn't want to spend my whole trip picking ticks off of everything.
Am I worrying too much about ticks?
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Get a tick tool, check your dogs and move on with life.
Not sure where you are in Ontario, but we play multiple venues of dog sports, trial mainly outside, and spent the last 4 days camping and trail riding in the woods with our horses.. no ticks. Haven't seen any in Ontario. That said, we traveled to the states last year and there were days I pulled 30 of my black american cocker. If you are skeazed about them.. get preventative and check your dog over once a day.
Not sure where you are in Ontario, but we play multiple venues of dog sports, trial mainly outside, and spent the last 4 days camping and trail riding in the woods with our horses.. no ticks. Haven't seen any in Ontario. That said, we traveled to the states last year and there were days I pulled 30 of my black american cocker. If you are skeazed about them.. get preventative and check your dog over once a day.
Oh wow, I'm glad I don't live where you guys live! I live in Mississippi, and we go walking through the woods all the time, and I have never had a tick on me before. My (male) friend, however, does get ticks, and we both wear shorts when we go walking, so maybe they just like leg hair? 
Maggie always comes with us, and she has gotten, at most, three ticks on her, and that's walking through the tall grass and trees and everything.
Maggie always comes with us, and she has gotten, at most, three ticks on her, and that's walking through the tall grass and trees and everything.
well I LIVE in Lyme CT, so am in the tick capital
I used to vac for Lyme, stopped about 7-8 years ago. I have never had a dog come up positive for Lyme.
Just to add, the Lyme vac only covers (if it covers) Lyme disease, it does not cover any of the other tick borne diseases which in my opinion can be much worse.
My dogs are constantly positive for anaplasmosis equii erhlichia. One of my male shepherds passed because of complications FROM anaplasmosis. My 4 year old gsd, has NEVER been negative!
Ticks are a way of life around here, the ones that cause disease are so 'minute' you'll probably never find them..
Tick disease is nothing to fool around with, some don't see any clinical signs until it's to late. Antibiotic dosage by most vets are to low and to short term to do anything. Long term and high dose sometimes won't knock back.
Once you or a dog has had lyme disease, it never leaves the body, you/dog are always subject to 'boughts' of the disease
Ticks suck, they can cause such misery for dogs/people but I'm not going to keep my dogs in glass houses either..
I used to vac for Lyme, stopped about 7-8 years ago. I have never had a dog come up positive for Lyme.
Just to add, the Lyme vac only covers (if it covers) Lyme disease, it does not cover any of the other tick borne diseases which in my opinion can be much worse.
My dogs are constantly positive for anaplasmosis
equii erhlichia. One of my male shepherds passed because of complications FROM anaplasmosis. My 4 year old gsd, has NEVER been negative! Ticks are a way of life around here, the ones that cause disease are so 'minute' you'll probably never find them..
Tick disease is nothing to fool around with, some don't see any clinical signs until it's to late. Antibiotic dosage by most vets are to low and to short term to do anything. Long term and high dose sometimes won't knock back.
Once you or a dog has had lyme disease, it never leaves the body, you/dog are always subject to 'boughts' of the disease
Ticks suck, they can cause such misery for dogs/people but I'm not going to keep my dogs in glass houses either..
Oh wow, I'm glad I don't live where you guys live! I live in Mississippi, and we go walking through the woods all the time, and I have never had a tick on me before. My (male) friend, however, does get ticks, and we both wear shorts when we go walking, so maybe they just like leg hair?
Maggie always comes with us, and she has gotten, at most, three ticks on her, and that's walking through the tall grass and trees and everything.
Maggie always comes with us, and she has gotten, at most, three ticks on her, and that's walking through the tall grass and trees and everything.
I know this is a losing battle for me, but a positive test doesn't mean the dog HAS clinical anaplasmosis (or Lyme or erlichiosis), it just tests for antibodies and means that the dog was exposed to it at some point. It doesn't matter how long a dog is on antibiotics or how high of a dose, treating a dog is not going to make the test convert to negative if that's what you mean by "knock it back".
There is a lot that isn't known about tick borne diseases in dogs and there is a LOT of misinformation out there, but in general they do NOT act like they do in people and the level of anxiety over them is generally out of proportion. I could go stand on a street corner and test the first 100 dogs that walk by, and a very high percentage of them would likely test positive without ever having had, or without ever having, any clinical signs. Not to say that tick borne diseases can't be serious, but serious complications seem to be an individual thing and the vast majority of dogs don't have problems from being exposed to these diseases.
There is a lot that isn't known about tick borne diseases in dogs and there is a LOT of misinformation out there, but in general they do NOT act like they do in people and the level of anxiety over them is generally out of proportion. I could go stand on a street corner and test the first 100 dogs that walk by, and a very high percentage of them would likely test positive without ever having had, or without ever having, any clinical signs. Not to say that tick borne diseases can't be serious, but serious complications seem to be an individual thing and the vast majority of dogs don't have problems from being exposed to these diseases.
sassafrass, I guess you may be not in an area where tick diseases are prevailant?
Here, there are many dogs that show no clinical signs and go straight into kidney/liver failure and die from tick disease.
My aussies who test positive constantly, no I don't see any clinical signs, one is a weak positive the other in the middle range.
My shepherd now, was 'sick as a dog', (no pun intended) a couple months ago, liver values elevated, I did every test under the sun on her, and it all came back to her chronic anaplasmosis.
No, treating will not get 'rid' of the disease, once they have it, it's always there, whether dogs have clinical signs or not.
One can choose what they wish as for treatment or taking the tick diseases seriously.
I only know what i see/hear from my vet's and that is, to many dogs around here die from untreated tick disease that doesn't necessarily have to be clinical.
Here, there are many dogs that show no clinical signs and go straight into kidney/liver failure and die from tick disease.
My aussies who test positive constantly, no I don't see any clinical signs, one is a weak positive the other in the middle range.
My shepherd now, was 'sick as a dog', (no pun intended) a couple months ago, liver values elevated, I did every test under the sun on her, and it all came back to her chronic anaplasmosis.
No, treating will not get 'rid' of the disease, once they have it, it's always there, whether dogs have clinical signs or not.
One can choose what they wish as for treatment or taking the tick diseases seriously.
I only know what i see/hear from my vet's and that is, to many dogs around here die from untreated tick disease that doesn't necessarily have to be clinical.
Actually, I do.
It is theorized that there is a complication of Lyme called "Lyme nephritis" - but this has never actually been proven. Empirically it seems to be true of many dogs, but it happens in a very, very small percentage of dogs who are exposed to Lyme. I've honestly never heard of liver disease being associated with Lyme or other tick borne diseases, nor have I been able to find any credible information about it. I'd be looking for another cause such as Leptospirosis, myself.
I'm actually curious how this was determined. Personally I think that a lot of times correlation is mistaken for causation when it comes to tick borne diseases - that is, "because we couldn't find another reason" isn't good enough for me.
The disease is not always there, the antibodies are always there.
Ahehe, the choice isn't either/or. I take tick borne diseases very seriously but I am not a big believer in chemoprophylaxis or treating blue test dots in a normal dog. Veterinary infectious disease specialists say and over and over again that asymptomatic dogs do not need to be treated, for some reason a lot of people don't listen. I have yet to see a dog who I've taken this approach with subsequently get sick, and we have a lot of dogs who test positive in this area.
Again, how is it determined that these dogs actually died from the tick borne diseases?
It is theorized that there is a complication of Lyme called "Lyme nephritis" - but this has never actually been proven. Empirically it seems to be true of many dogs, but it happens in a very, very small percentage of dogs who are exposed to Lyme. I've honestly never heard of liver disease being associated with Lyme or other tick borne diseases, nor have I been able to find any credible information about it. I'd be looking for another cause such as Leptospirosis, myself.
I'm actually curious how this was determined. Personally I think that a lot of times correlation is mistaken for causation when it comes to tick borne diseases - that is, "because we couldn't find another reason" isn't good enough for me.
The disease is not always there, the antibodies are always there.
Ahehe, the choice isn't either/or. I take tick borne diseases very seriously but I am not a big believer in chemoprophylaxis or treating blue test dots in a normal dog. Veterinary infectious disease specialists say and over and over again that asymptomatic dogs do not need to be treated, for some reason a lot of people don't listen. I have yet to see a dog who I've taken this approach with subsequently get sick, and we have a lot of dogs who test positive in this area.
Again, how is it determined that these dogs actually died from the tick borne diseases?
If you read up on tick disease, it can cause all kinds of organ problems/failure if left untreated / chronic in humans and animals.
The dog could not walk, stiff as a board, high fever, showing clinical signs came on overnite. Bloodwork showed elevated liver enzymes, low blood count which indicates infection, Snap positive for anaplasmosis. All other testing (including xrays/ultrasound) showed 'nothing', put her on a course of doxy, retested in 2 months all bloodwork back in normal range. Granted this could have been a "phantom" thing, (I tend to have dogs who 'get' phantom illnesses on occasion) but all points to anaplasmosis.
As for the liver issues being lepto, no it wasn't.
And your right, alot of dogs will test positive and never show a problem. But I'm not willing to take the chance of them developing a problem.
I suppose we can go back and forth on this till the cows come home..I trust my vet's knowledge and when they tell me they see dogs going straight into liver failure and dying with no clinical signs of tick disease tho the dogs are testing positive for it, I tend to believe them.
The dog could not walk, stiff as a board, high fever, showing clinical signs came on overnite. Bloodwork showed elevated liver enzymes, low blood count which indicates infection, Snap positive for anaplasmosis. All other testing (including xrays/ultrasound) showed 'nothing', put her on a course of doxy, retested in 2 months all bloodwork back in normal range. Granted this could have been a "phantom" thing, (I tend to have dogs who 'get' phantom illnesses on occasion) but all points to anaplasmosis.
As for the liver issues being lepto, no it wasn't.
And your right, alot of dogs will test positive and never show a problem. But I'm not willing to take the chance of them developing a problem.
I suppose we can go back and forth on this till the cows come home..I trust my vet's knowledge and when they tell me they see dogs going straight into liver failure and dying with no clinical signs of tick disease tho the dogs are testing positive for it, I tend to believe them.
I have read up on tick disease, and I've consulted with veterinary infectious disease experts, including a veterinary nephrologist. Although they are not 100% understood, these diseases are NOT thought to generally act chronically in dogs as they do in people, and Lyme nephritis, if it exists, is thought to be an individual, idiosyncratic reaction that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or how long the animal was treated at an asymptomatic stage. That is, in an individual dog, either it's going to happen or it's not no matter what you do. And it happens in a fraction of those 5% of dogs who even show any clinical signs of tick borne disease at all.
To expound, it is thought to be the an individual animal's immune response that "clogs up" the filtering mechanism of the kidney with excessive numbers of antibody-antigen(Lyme organism) complexes, which are too large to be filtered. This starts a cascade of effects that ultimately damages the kidney.
No, all does not point to anaplasmosis. All points to a dog with liver disease that also tested positive for anaplasmosis, which is extremely likely in a tick-borne disease endemic area. Just because the dog tested positive for anaplasmosis, it doesn't mean the anaplasmosis caused the symptoms.
Was the liver biopsied? There are many, many things that can cause acute hepatitis. There has never been a reported case of tick borne disease causing liver disease in a dog to my knowledge, maybe your vet should write that case up and submit it to a journal.
Did you have negative paired titers?
I trust my vet's knowledge, too, since she's me. Unfortunately, there are a lot of vets out there who mis-use the 4DX test. It is NOT an appropriate screening test. That is, it is NOT meant to be used to test every dog, every year and then put the dogs who test positive on antibiotics. It is meant to be used to look for antibodies in a dog showing appropriate clinical signs. I have spoken to multiple infectious disease experts who hold this opinion and they uniformly, across the board recommend NOT treating a dog who tests positive without clinical signs (ie "don't treat a blue dot").
For awhile several years ago we were using the 4DX tests for our heartworm tests, and I can't even tell you how many dogs tested positive for one of the three tick borne diseases without having any signs. We did not routinely put those dogs on antibiotics (although we always gave the owners the option) and several years out I can tell you that not ONE of those dogs has ever developed any problems.
This particular issue makes me peevey because 1. I hate, hate, hate correlation being confused with causation and 2. I don't care for large scale misuse of antibiotics when there is no real evidence to do so 3. There is so much misunderstanding of these diseases floating around.
/rant
To expound, it is thought to be the an individual animal's immune response that "clogs up" the filtering mechanism of the kidney with excessive numbers of antibody-antigen(Lyme organism) complexes, which are too large to be filtered. This starts a cascade of effects that ultimately damages the kidney.
No, all does not point to anaplasmosis. All points to a dog with liver disease that also tested positive for anaplasmosis, which is extremely likely in a tick-borne disease endemic area. Just because the dog tested positive for anaplasmosis, it doesn't mean the anaplasmosis caused the symptoms.
Was the liver biopsied? There are many, many things that can cause acute hepatitis. There has never been a reported case of tick borne disease causing liver disease in a dog to my knowledge, maybe your vet should write that case up and submit it to a journal.
Did you have negative paired titers?
I trust my vet's knowledge, too, since she's me. Unfortunately, there are a lot of vets out there who mis-use the 4DX test. It is NOT an appropriate screening test. That is, it is NOT meant to be used to test every dog, every year and then put the dogs who test positive on antibiotics. It is meant to be used to look for antibodies in a dog showing appropriate clinical signs. I have spoken to multiple infectious disease experts who hold this opinion and they uniformly, across the board recommend NOT treating a dog who tests positive without clinical signs (ie "don't treat a blue dot").
For awhile several years ago we were using the 4DX tests for our heartworm tests, and I can't even tell you how many dogs tested positive for one of the three tick borne diseases without having any signs. We did not routinely put those dogs on antibiotics (although we always gave the owners the option) and several years out I can tell you that not ONE of those dogs has ever developed any problems.
This particular issue makes me peevey because 1. I hate, hate, hate correlation being confused with causation and 2. I don't care for large scale misuse of antibiotics when there is no real evidence to do so 3. There is so much misunderstanding of these diseases floating around.
/rant
I have to agree with sassafras..it is usually not recommended around here to treat unless the dog is clinical...and I'm in your area. The lyme test shows antibodies..which is NOT the disease itself. Your dog can pick up antibodies from being exposed to a dog vaccinated for lyme.
I know my clinical dog flares up when her immune system is stressed, it occurs after vaccinating. She appears fine otherwise, same activity level, though she does have luxating patellas. Is your shepherd not considered clinical with those symptoms? She certainly didn't 'drop dead' from the elevated liver problems.
I know my clinical dog flares up when her immune system is stressed, it occurs after vaccinating. She appears fine otherwise, same activity level, though she does have luxating patellas. Is your shepherd not considered clinical with those symptoms? She certainly didn't 'drop dead' from the elevated liver problems.
I definitely avoid going into wooded areas when ticks are prevalent. I have a long haired, thick coated black dog. It's nearly impossible to find/remove ticks from her. She gets advantix religiously each month and Zach and I rub her down constantly searching for them. Most years we pull 10-15 off of her at some point, even when we're being cautious about where we go.