Am I just heartless?

stardogs

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#61
Well and it's not just "animals with expensive care needs" really, but also the concern that some of the animals being "saved" are having to endure horrific pain and discomfort in the process, and perhaps even for the rest of their lives, making euthanasia perhaps more humane from some POVs.
 

crazedACD

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#62
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4048541355.161733.327265306355&type=1&theater This is the non graphic pic, but the story is written there. Beaten with a baseball bat and then shot right down the throat.

Well I tell ya what. IF I had anything to spare I would be sending to this dog. Any dog that is tail thumping to all those that are helping her, after what has been done to her, she should get all the help she needs. If you can't see the link I apologize in advance.
I saw that dog, and the graphic picture. I see no problem with them working on that dog..I do think the damage is repairable without too much trouble for the dog.
 

sillysally

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#63
I think it's very, very, very different to spend your own money on your own dog... rather than a rescue spending thousands of donated dollars to one VERY special needs dog. I don't see the comparison at all in those two situations, one dog is owned, the other is homeless!

No one is saying it's not nice that some one has a bleeding heart for suffering dogs who need serious medical help, surgery and care. That is a nice thing to do. But a rescue spending all of those resources on one dog who may or may not survive, who may or may not be adoptable once they recover, is not realistic when millions of healthy adoptable dogs are dying and I don't think that's deniable. I've fostered many dogs and put fourth a lot of my own money, but I wouldn't spend the money I could use towards a dozen dogs on one dog that isn't even a guarantee. I think what bothers me is seeing rescues who always have super sick dogs who require thousands of dollars in donations, not just a few special cases here and there, but constantly? I don't think it's fair to be biased towards special needs cases, when so many healthy dogs die for no reason.
But if they are honest about their mission and what they are doing with the donations and take the dogs' quality if life into account, why do you care what they specialize in? You don't have to donate if you don't want to. The major role of private rescues is to do what shelters often can't--give dogs time in foster care, give them basic training, work with behavioral issues, and often deal with medical issues that require time and money to treat.

I have a dog that has a major health issue, and frankly the idea that dogs like him simply "aren't worth the resources" is insulting. As long as rescues are behaving ethically, let them so what they do, and you do what you do, and at the end of the day dogs will be still be saved.
 

Paige

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#64
And if that dog is in a rescue it is not homeless. it is in someone's care to give it all they have the means to. If that means asking for donations to help that dog so be it.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#65
I believe it's just frustrating. It's the save one or save one thousand, an epic question of morality.

Yes it is over bearing and nosey to presume those of us not hands on can choose what a private organization can do and yes it is their choice but I believe the hypothetical question would be is it right?

I suppose that is up to only the rescue and yes, it's our choice to donate or not, but sometimes I find it a painful affront to see even some of the more respected rescues spending resources on less adoptable dogs while I see easy adoption dogs killed for lack of room. Sometimes I wonder why not them? Are they not flashy enough? Do they not pull at enough heart strings?

Once again it's not just that side that gets questioned but both. The lab rescue here I now donate to when I have money to do so only takes reasonable and adoptable cases, they get flack for it from other rescues (I was told to avoid them for not being true rescue) but if you ask me they are doing their job, especially in the most populated breed in America.
 

Paige

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#66
Once again it's not just that side that gets questioned but both. The lab rescue here I now donate to when I have money to do so only takes reasonable and adoptable cases, they get flack for it from other rescues (I was told to avoid them for not being true rescue) but if you ask me they are doing their job, especially in the most populated breed in America.
That is the kind of rescue that appeals to me. It's unforunate they get any kind of negative attention for that.
 

MandyPug

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#67
There's a large Pug rescue in Ontario that is having to close their intake yet again due to three dogs needing surgeries that add up to around $10,000 total. They rarely have healthy adoptable dogs it seems and do a lot of heroics for some of the really bad cases. Not as bad as some other Pug rescues but still. I think there needs to be a balance. You can't save them all and those unhealthy dogs that need work need rescue too, but it's those healthy easily adoptable dogs that can help bring in some money to use toward the harder cases.
 

sillysally

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#68
I believe it's just frustrating. It's the save one or save one thousand, an epic question of morality.

Yes it is over bearing and nosey to presume those of us not hands on can choose what a private organization can do and yes it is their choice but I believe the hypothetical question would be is it right?

I suppose that is up to only the rescue and yes, it's our choice to donate or not, but sometimes I find it a painful affront to see even some of the more respected rescues spending resources on less adoptable dogs while I see easy adoption dogs killed for lack of room. Sometimes I wonder why not them? Are they not flashy enough? Do they not pull at enough heart strings?

Once again it's not just that side that gets questioned but both. The lab rescue here I now donate to when I have money to do so only takes reasonable and adoptable cases, they get flack for it from other rescues (I was told to avoid them for not being true rescue) but if you ask me they are doing their job, especially in the most populated breed in America.
But you could say that about breeds and types as well. Why should any reacues take in in pit bulls or large black mutts? They are hard to adopt out. You could save many labs, goldens, or small dogs with the resources you use on pit bulls or black dogs. For that matter maybe no rescue should take in seniors, because puppies get adopted first. Heck, if it's all about numbers then maybe all rescues should focus most of their resources on puppies. I don't think it's wrong for private rescues to look beyond numbers at times.
 

Paige

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#69
But you could say that about breeds and types as well. Why should any reacues take in in pit bulls or large black mutts? They are hard to adopt out. You could save many labs, goldens, or small dogs with the resources you use on pit bulls or black dogs. For that matter maybe no rescue should take in seniors, because puppies get adopted first. Heck, if it's all about numbers then maybe all rescues should focus most of their resources on puppies. I don't think it's wrong for private rescues to look beyond numbers at times.
A lot of rescues do have that policy. Only easily adoptable dogs like puppies, small dogs and dogs with really amazing temperments. Is their life more deserving because they happen to be cuter, younger, healthier and have better temperments? I don't want to be the one to say.
 

yoko

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#70
but it's those healthy easily adoptable dogs that can help bring in some money to use toward the harder cases.
I've always seen it backwards to that.

Yes the harder cases cost more. But sob stories bring in money like crazy *the ones I have seen*. So while they are spending more they are also getting quite a bit more being donated in.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#71
However, is their life LESS deserving because they are adoptable?

I don't think it transfers to breedism however. I believe there is a difference between saying, "Sorry, we do not prioritize the resources to work with and rehabilitate (when often it is impossible) severely temperamentally disturbed dogs and medically damaged dogs." Do those dogs deserve another chance? Sure, most do, but at the cost of many good dogs that get over looked because their story isn't sad enough? That is only up to the rescue to decide I suppose.

Personally I do support some of the sob story dogs but I feel more emotion, maybe I'm jaded, for those who have been looked over because they have all 4 legs, their health, and a smile no matter their age. They seem to get passed over when being pulled all too frequently because they don't break hearts as easily as the beaten, broken, and needing dogs.

Maybe it's the dramatics, maybe we just want something to protect, whatever it is I am glad for it for those who benefit, I'm just not convinced most rescues out there have any patience for dogs without a "story" behind them.

I do believe in the end it's all about balance and frankly the reality that most rescues do not survive past 2 years shows that the balance is lacking, most see these heart breaking stories, jump in and forget to put their own oxygen masks on first. You can't possibly continue helping dogs if you go bankrupt and permanently fill all of your foster homes with un-adoptable/extremely long term rescue dogs.

Ah, and I should add, the lab rescue I respect and donate to happily took that 10-13 year old lab I had for a day. They walked in, looked, fished out a slip lead and said she's ours. <shrug>
 

sillysally

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#72
Idk, the rescue I am involved in doesn't take in dogs based on a sob story. They often will get calls from shelters saying they have a nice dog (or a dobe in particular) that has not been adopted yet and whose time is running out and will pull the dog. They've taken in dogs at all along the spectrum of age, health, temperament, etc. The ones that I've seen that have the most health issues actually are the dobes. Often they pull the dog not knowing there is a health issue, see symptoms, then decide what to do.

They do have tons of healthy dogs go through too-it just depends on what dog comes to the attention of the rescue at that time and what they have room for. I doubt they are the only rescue to operate that way.

In the end rescues are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Take in healthy, adoptable dogs and get criticized for not being a "real rescue." Take in dogs with health issues and get accused of being a "bleeding heart" trying to make donation money off a sob story. If you screen carefully you are too restrictive and not saving enough dogs, screen more flexibly and you're putting dogs in danger. As long as a rescue is being ethical I think that sometimes it's ok to let them do their thing and be happy that dogs are being saved, even if it's not how *you* (collective) would go about saving them.
 

MandyPug

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#74
I've always seen it backwards to that.

Yes the harder cases cost more. But sob stories bring in money like crazy *the ones I have seen*. So while they are spending more they are also getting quite a bit more being donated in.
I don't mean in donations, I mean in easy dogs that need minimal vetting/work that can be turned over pretty quick. Dogs that show people "hey we actually do get dogs that don't have issues too, so normal families that can't deal with dogs with problems can adopt from us too!"

Not everyone is in the position to take in a rescue dog with a ton of health and behavioural problems. Not everyone wants that and we know there's going to be long term work needed with most of these huge sob story cases. So to keep those "normal" JQP families involved and getting a rescue dog, it's good in my opinion to have some of those easily adoptable dogs too. So you're helping dogs get homes and raising money to be put to the sob story cases.
 

BostonBanker

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#75
In the end rescues are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Take in healthy, adoptable dogs and get criticized for not being a "real rescue." Take in dogs with health issues and get accused of being a "bleeding heart" trying to make donation money off a sob story. If you screen carefully you are too restrictive and not saving enough dogs, screen more flexibly and you're putting dogs in danger. As long as a rescue is being ethical I think that sometimes it's ok to let them do their thing and be happy that dogs are being saved, even if it's not how *you* (collective) would go about saving them.
:hail:
 

crazedACD

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#76
I don't mean in donations, I mean in easy dogs that need minimal vetting/work that can be turned over pretty quick. Dogs that show people "hey we actually do get dogs that don't have issues too, so normal families that can't deal with dogs with problems can adopt from us too!"

Not everyone is in the position to take in a rescue dog with a ton of health and behavioural problems. Not everyone wants that and we know there's going to be long term work needed with most of these huge sob story cases. So to keep those "normal" JQP families involved and getting a rescue dog, it's good in my opinion to have some of those easily adoptable dogs too. So you're helping dogs get homes and raising money to be put to the sob story cases.
Sometimes I think that being dog knowledgeable works against those hard to handle dogs too and dogs end up in opposite homes. I can size up a dog in a matter of minutes and know generally what to expect from the dog. I was looking at some older puppies that were shared on FB and they were all very cute, but all of them huddled in a corner. I couldn't help thinking if those dogs were 'stable', they would have a hard time getting a pic of all of them at once...they should be swarming the person in their kennel. Not that I'm unwilling to work with issues...I just know better than to choose those dogs? So..JQP sees these dogs, thinks they are just 'scared in the shelter', and end up with a genetic fear biter.

I guess I'm trying to figure out if, you are a more experienced dog person, should you obligate yourself to more difficult cases and leave the easier ones to JQP? Is that what some of the rescues do...pulling the ones that are more difficult for JQP to deal with, so when they walk in the shelter from off the street they hopefully go for that healthy and easy but normal dog?
 

yoko

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#77
I guess I'm trying to figure out if, you are a more experienced dog person, should you obligate yourself to more difficult cases and leave the easier ones to JQP? Is that what some of the rescues do...pulling the ones that are more difficult for JQP to deal with, so when they walk in the shelter from off the street they hopefully go for that healthy and easy but normal dog?
I've thought about this before.

I have experience with extremely fearful dogs, hard to train dogs, and dogs with health issues.

But when I think of my next dog I still don't know if I want to get a happy young/puppy or if I should get one that has health or fear issues since I know I could work with them.
 

smkie

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#78
Victor was terrified of everything. I have often found that the really smart and intuitive ones are and the effort put in to them makes the end result worth every second.
 

*blackrose

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#79
I guess I'm trying to figure out if, you are a more experienced dog person, should you obligate yourself to more difficult cases and leave the easier ones to JQP? Is that what some of the rescues do...pulling the ones that are more difficult for JQP to deal with, so when they walk in the shelter from off the street they hopefully go for that healthy and easy but normal dog?
I don't think so, know. I'm fully capable of handling a dog with issues (Chloe), but does that mean I feel obligated to do so? Hell no. My next dog is going to be bombproof that nothing in the world can cause to act out. LOL

But that being said, because I know what issues I can and cannot handle easily...I wouldn't overlook a dog that just needs some guidance, exercise, and training to be a sane, normal dog. The key being that the guidance, exercise, and training actually has to result in a stable dog, not a dog that's just barely hanging in there.

I've looked at some dogs and said, "All they need is some structure and they'd be perfect." (For example, a highly understimulated Labrador that boards with us - she's severely DA, has no manners, and is almost unmanageable at times, but her inherent temperament is very solid and she has a drive to learn and please) But then, I've looked at other dogs with similar issues and not wanted to touch them with a ten foot pole because their issues aren't stemming from being in the wrong environment, but because of bad genetics/basic temperament issues. And I am so over that.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#80
Victor was terrified of everything. I have often found that the really smart and intuitive ones are and the effort put in to them makes the end result worth every second.
I think a lot of the commotion of late (in the wake of spindletop) has a lot to do with unadoptable dogs with dog or human aggression.
 

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