All the Terriers - need info

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by FG167, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    Pros/cons/differences for Jagdterriers, Border Terriers, Jack Russell Terriers, Patterdale Terriers, any others...any and all info. Would be for performance (agility, dock jumping, flyball, perhaps Terrier Races if possible) primarily and definitely a house pet to live with other dogs and cats. I've lived with a few, but rescues that did not meet any standard. I do want a dog that can settle in the house but we are a very active family and with a small dog they can be packed up with the big ones and brought anywhere :) Just researching pretty much any breed that catches my eye right now.
     
  2. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Out of those, for a dog to live with other pets, I'd go with the Border Terrier.
     
  3. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I can only speak of my breed (jrts) and my experiences. I am not in the camp of don't have a jrt and cats/small animals. I firmly believe that it depends on the dog and the prospective home. We had a couple of cats for years and never had a problem. Then my old cats died, I didn't get another one and my dogs changed their attitudes where cats were concerned.

    If I had a cat, I would purchase from a breeder (regardless of terrier breed) that had cats. Puppies exposed to cats and kittens or other small animals needs to happen no later than 4 wks of age. Even then it isn't a guarantee and it has nothing to do with prey drives. I have seen jrts that wouldn't hunt, that have killed cats. And I know proven working terriers that don't even give a cat a sideways glance or they play with them and are buddies.

    I think that you have to ask yourself, what the worst case scenario could be and how you would manage it. Could you keep a cat safe if the terrier you purchased decided that the kitty must die? The dog that watches and waits for the perfect opportunity. Will you see the interest, see the drives turn on?

    I have had a lot of jrts over the years and I have had two pups right from the get go that would attempt to kill the cat as wee pups. One of them is Punky, yet two of her littermates live with cats and no issues (so far).

    Good luck and if you have any questions give me a shout and I'll try to help.
     
  4. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    Would be for performance (agility, dock jumping, flyball, perhaps Terrier Races if possible) primarily and definitely a house pet to live with other dogs and cats. I've lived with a few, but rescues that did not meet any standard. I do want a dog that can settle in the house but we are a very active family and with a small dog they can be packed up with the big ones and brought anywhere

    A JRT could do all of those sports easily and eagerly...the pups need to be taught how to settle and it can be tough for them, but they're fast learners and most experienced dog people shouldn't have a problem with that.

    Many of them do have DA/prey drive. You can certainly find lines where it's less prevalent, or tell by adulthood if they're going to have the issues (with an adult breeder dog or adult rescue), but if you want a 100% guarantee of peaceful coexistence, I would say don't consider a JRT puppy and be careful about choosing an adult.

    The border terriers I've known have been really good with other dogs as far as terriers go, same with westies. The cairns, scotties, JRTs are scrappier IME. Unfortunately, the border terriers I've known have also been a lot less drive-y than the JRTs. Definitely trainable in agility, and would love to do terrier trials, but not up to competing at the level a JRT is. One from working lines might be more your speed, and from what I've heard, even working borders are usually dog/other pet friendly.
     
  5. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    How do I go about finding a breeder that does all necessary health testing (which is?), has cats, and has dogs that compete or place dogs in agility? I have a friend with an AKC dog and he's slower/lower drive than I want but he also kills things in their backyard. However, my Corgis have caught and eaten squirrels and rabbits and are totally fine with the cats. We do have a cat room so the cats can be shut away but I would greatly prefer to not have to rotate the dog away from the cats just for ease and because I prefer my pets to be all around me whenever I'm home :) I'm pretty good at recognizing drives now and when/what they are triggered by. I work with Mals (loads of DA ones), working-line GSDs and myself own those breeds among others. Not to say I'm fail proof by any means but I am pretty good at tapping into or encouraging drives to be placed elsewhere.

    Prey drive I can deal with (love it), DA I would prefer to not if possible. I'm wanting a female and we only have the two spayed Corgis and they get along with everyone we've ever fostered, owned, and almost all of the work dogs that we've brought home. SSA I am hoping to avoid.

    I didn't know there were working Borders vs not working...I don't know where to look for breeders?
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    A good border terrier will have a perfect balance of on like a Malinois and off like a pit bull. They're dog friendly, human friendly, driven, and active. They are carry sized but not yappy. They're very smart but they can be hard to redirect when they have that terrier focus. They're supposedly cat friendly if raised carefully but all terriers should have exceedingly high prey drive, the kind that says who cares that your leg is broken, go go go. I love the breed and I plan to have one some day.

    Jacks are very similar in many regards but from what I see they're even more over the top in energy, drive, and crazy. I think of them as Backup style Malinois where the border terrier is Sloan. When I posted a very similar thread (maybe we can find it?) I was reminded that JRT, dog tolerant but not labs per say, don't always have patience for what they consider annoying behavior, my Malinois are very annoying sometimes and it's something to be aware of.

    For an all around HAPPY dog who'll love other dogs you may consider a wheaten. A well bred wheaten is a jack of all trades, literally because the Irish farmers needed them to do everything, and they should be comical and happy dogs. My groomers at work sigh and roll their eyes at wheaten a because is so annoying grooming a dog that is always so happy, the dog just wants to love on them and won't hold still for clipping. Also, they're energizer bunnies but they have an in-home off switch. My wheaten could out run/swim my game dog pit bull and hunt bred rat terrier some days. The cons are because of this joy, it's rather lab like, they can be hard to focus and find a higher value reward than ZOMG peoples & puppies! lol Mine was hard as heck to motivate by food and play but I've trained several since that renewed my faith in their drives. They're also notoriously good at being animal friendly when taught but retaining pest control ability (another trade of a farm dog, when well bred).

    My Deckers rat terriers were amazing dogs. Tons of energy, stamina, amazing biddability, and a fantastic off switch. I have met a lot of undesirable dogs in show or pet bred but you can almost always pick out a hunting rat amongst the crowd. They're quiet, calm, and confident. At home they're silly, reserved with strangers (plenty of real guarding potential, Hannah was a monster if she read a threat), but controlled and it shouldn't be a fear driven awareness. They're very smart and attached but confident and shouldn't be neurotic about separation. My girls had death fights and I had to return one to the breeder but both were awesome(Hannah still doesn't like females but she tolerates them) with other dogs outside of each other. Again, pack terriers so they shouldn't have unmanageable aggression. Hannah was a fluke of health issues which lead to some behavioral issues and that's why she's with my mom now but generally speaking they're a healthy breed.

    Have you considered a small GSP, vizsla, or Brittany?
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Not a terrier but I seriously wonder if a nice poodle would fit your desires. Can you handle a dog needing grooming (most terriers need it, too)?
     
  8. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Don't forget that JRTS/PRTS have a far amount of same sex aggression, esp the females. Doesn't mean they can't get alone with other females (all of them spayed as well) but it can be a problem and something to consider.

    For health testing: Eyes for sure (CERF) for Cataracts and PRA. There is now a DNA test for PPL. They can be prone to patella problems, don't by the 'the jack skip is normal' crap that so many people say. Legg-Perthes can also be a problem, although I have never seen it. But it is a known problem in many breeds including most terriers.

    Another question you have to ask yourself, if you plan on competing in AKC/CKC you have to get a Parsons or a Russell Terrier, unless you have a spay/neutered dog.
    You could consider the new Russell Terrier, from what I have been told they are not as edgy as the JRTS/PRTs. Which makes sense because most of them are non working with little or none working lines. Same health testing applies.

    If you get serious about a JRT, PRT or RT, let me know. I can point you in the right direction of good breeders.
     
  9. AmberH

    AmberH Member

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    I'm probably zero help here since I have a mutt but you are seriously describing my Bayleigh with everything you want in a dog. She's a dream!

    I don't know a whole lot about either of her breeds (Yorkshire Terrier and Shih Tzu cross -taking more after the yorkie from what I can tell) or if she's typical for either of them or if she's just a perfect blend. But, she's very driven to work, more so than my APBTs. Although she is more willing to work for a piece of kibble rather than toys and if you bring out anything of higher prize (such as real meat) she will not work at all. And if I had unlimited money and time, I know for a fact that she'd excel in every sport out there. At this time, though, we aren't actively working on anything and she's just a pet. She is very fast and athletic. We do agility stuff and weight pull for fun in the yard. She doesn't hesitate to jump off a dock. Grooming isn't a real big issue as my dog has a naturally short(ish) coat. But if you went purebred, you could shave it down every couple weeks and you'd be good.

    I think most people think of a Yorkie as a dainty, froo-froo breed but Bayleigh is very hardy. I don't worry about her breaking. She doesn't take crap from the big dogs and puts them in their place quickly. With that said, she's dog friendly and cat friendly. She's an insane prey drive. She'll go after other small animals (chipmunks, birds, etc). But it's manageable and she settles easily.

    I've looked into a couple of Yorkshire Terrier breeders and the one thing that is going to stop me from getting one is that they all have an outrageous price. Think $2000+ and as good as the breeder and dogs might be, I cannot justify paying that price. Now, that's just the couple I've found that I like and I haven't done a lot of research at this time as I probably won't be going that route.
     
  10. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    This would be equally true of most terriers that are still mostly working dogs like jagds & pats. Keep in mind that some Brits work ferrets & terriers together on rats and have dogs that'll take mink & polecats but won't look sideways at the family ferrets.
     
  11. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Maybe the Border Terriers around here are just zippier than others, but most of the ones I know don't lack for drive. And just for entertaining fun, here's a BT puppy being introduced to the rat in a tube, for Barn Hunt:

    [YOUTUBE]Ah_X6XL7-6c[/YOUTUBE]
     
  12. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Yeah, Looks like the pup left.........I would not be happy with that on any level.
     
  13. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    She's a baby puppy, she got excited about something new, and went tearing around. Fortunately, it doesn't matter if you like her since her owner of (at that time) about a week is very happy with her.
     
  14. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Is that the baby I met at the last trial? Man she was cute.
     
  15. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Here's what I consider a fairly typical Border Terrier, completing his MACH. They bark a lot on course. It's part of their charm.

    [YOUTUBE]uN1JuvVHVnA[/YOUTUBE]

    Most of the agility Borders I know run somewhat like this, maybe a little slower or faster, depending mostly on handler. They're a pretty handler responsive breed (I know a lot that do well at obedience, too).
     
  16. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Probably, and yes, she's super cute!
     
  17. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Well first of all, thought it was some random vid off youtube and had no idea you had any connection to the dog.
    Glad the owner is happy and I didn't say I didn't like her, just that for testing drives I wouldn't be happy with that response. I test my litters this way, as do many breeders that plan to work the pup they intend to keep. However, I don't use a barn hunt tube but a live trap cage, I trap wild rats in my barn. The wild rats are aggressive, they scream, hiss and throw themselves at the cage etc. I've had wee baby pups that have killed rats in my barn by the time they're 3 months of age. Younger than that, they don't take off in excitement and race around but turn on. The ones that don't 'turn on', I don't keep (learned that one the hard way once). Just gives a breeder another piece of the puzzle when having to decide on who to run on, esp when they are trying to figure that out before 9 wks of age. That said, those same breeders will take the pup out hunting if they can. Throw a Deben on the pup and watch it for responses on the hunt. Is the pup interested in what the adults are doing when casting out? Do they have tail the pup and stop it from entering? Is it really interested when a dog is in the earth baying and working or taking that time to chase butterflies or take a nap?
     
  18. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    I was actually going to suggest considering a yorkie, but thought they might be too small for you.
     
  19. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    I imagine that a dog actually faced for the first time with a rat would respond somewhat different than a dog faced for the first time with a tube with a rat inside. There are visual cues. And I can flatly tell you that my dogs, who have been shown a rat in a cage (not close enough to touch), to drum up interest for the rat in the tube, will still leave the rat in a tube after awhile, because they can't get to it. I don't know about Pirate, but I know for a fact that the Honey Badger (Tess), if she can actually get at prey, will kill it even if it leaves her looking like she ran through a barbwire fence. (not proud of this, just stating a fact) Still not that interested in staying with the tube for an indefinite time, the rat is out of her reach.

    Dix' pup, when I videoed it, wasn't being tested for drive, Dix just wanted to see if she'd show interest in the rat tube for later Barn Hunt events. She showed tons of interest. Barking and charging the tube is turning on. She'll undoubtedly get to actually see a rat at some later date, since I'm assuming he'll do earthdog with her as well as agility and Barn Hunt.
     
  20. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    Something I will also have to consider. Both Eden and Limit can be super annoying. In general, Eden backs off immediately but Limit can be a bit of a handful until he understands the rules (he understands not to badger Kastle now).

    Wheaten/Deckers Rat Terriers are both I have not looked into at all. I appreciate the pointer and will look around. :)

    No. I have fostered for a GSP rescue, my parents have two, and I grew up with a Vizsla - the nice, fast, drivey, hunting-line ones they have drool this weird silvery drool that sticks to everything and dries in shiny crust. Yuck. Nice dogs, not for me :)

    Brittany was something I also deeply considered (grandpa used to breed/raise/hunt them WAY back in the day) but I'm not sure about finding the type that I would want (aka old style small drivey hunting dogs that were excellent family companions).

    I think I would be willing to learn how to handstrip a terrier, although if I got a smooth JRT, not a problem...I'm not sure about clippering a dog. I also am fond of PWD but they can be a little...crazy for me (some neurosis etc). I do really like the temperaments of the poodles (of all sizes) that I know in agility, I don't find them aesthetically pleasing though for myself.

    I'm not willing to sacrifice the drive I want for the AKC. AKC would be nice, but not mandatory. I am not really into the AKC style JRT from the ones I know.

    Thank you, really appreciate it and will definitely let you know!

    Jason LOVES Yorkies, love love loves them. He would be ecstatic if I got a Yorkie. I'm not sure about one in my household of big, drivey, sometimes clumsy dogs though. And I had no idea they were so expensive. That's pricier than importing a nice GSD from Belgium...

    I find that really interesting.

    I'm going to take a peak around and see what I find in the breed. I have a friend with a mix dog and he's pretty freaking awesome, pretty much what was said about Bayleigh applies to Benny. He's a really neat dog and not too small or fine boned, quite sturdy.
     

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