All About Pyr Sheps

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by FG167, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    I'm interested in these dogs - mainly due to their trainability and size although I also think they are stinkin' cute! I know nothing about them, know none - anyone have info? Breeder reference? Pictures? :)
     
  2. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I talked with Patricia from La Brise a bit several months ago because I was planning to add one as an agility prospect. There is that trains at our facility and 2 others in the state. Here's what I gathered about the breed, but there are more informed people on the board (aleron).

    -Very, very devoted to their person.
    -Very high energy
    -Flighty, in need of a lot of socialization
    -Not outgoing in terms of meeting other people (the one I've had as a student is the exception to this rule)
    -Bouncy
    -Loves to train
    -Needs more relationship work than typical herding breeds, meaning your one on one time with them needs to include other things other than just training. A lot of the top competitors that have them in agility will take month long breaks from training and just do fun things like hikes with their dogs.
    -Does not like a lot of repetition, drills will demotivate them.
    -They never forget. One bad experience will take months of desensitization to overcome.

    Over all they seem to be very fun small dogs. If I had more time to devote to socialization than I do now, I would've stayed on that puppy list. However, I already have one nutball dog and didn't want to risk adding another to our household.
     
  3. golden&hovawart

    golden&hovawart New Member

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    I've had 5!.
    Amazing breed,fast,loyal stubborn and will excel,in anything you try!.
    My females were ball crazy but not my males.They,all,loved water and running along the bike.
    In Fr,they are nicknamed the 100 000 volts dogs cos they,just,never stop.
    They are very agile and can pretty much climb,anything you want.
    They are used in Fr,for,herding,schutzhund and ring work!.
    Beware of certain lines that are very shy.I've met a couple from La Brise and they were very shy but this can be due to a lack of socialization and not the breeder.
    They need major socialization and training or they become unbearable.
    If no trained or exercised enough,they can be yappy and nippy.They can easily outrun a BC or a GSD and I've taken mine on 40 miles bike run,without them,breaking a sweat.
    Mine were cropped and docked which I like it,better!.
    Here are some pixs:
    Daisy:
    [​IMG]
    Daisy & Ego:
    [​IMG]
    Daisy jumping the palissade:
    [​IMG]


    Some breeders will undersize them so that the dog can become a height dog(flyball) and for me,this is a big NO,NO.
    My last Pyrshep could jump a 6ft palissade and make it,look easy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  4. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    Thanks for the info! They sure are cute but thank goodness I asked about them because I really don't think they'd suit me!
     
  5. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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  6. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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  7. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I had a big reply typed out then..it disappeared!

    My PyrShep Savvy just turned a year old and he's a lot of fun. And a lot of work. The biggest challenge with him is keeping him entertained and supervised. He is extremely high energy and needs to run, needs to have his brain engaged more than any other dog I have had (including Belgians, GSDs and a Cardi). He probably won't be trustworthy loose in the house for at least another year or longer. He can't be left loose in the yard unsupervised because he will jump the fence (and chase the running neighbor kids...). He is actually a really good dog and once he knows something, he tries very hard to do it even if it's difficult. But his energy level and athletic ability make him a lot more high maintenance than my other dogs. He is a nutball, although in a funny way not in a "needs to be kept locked at home and away from all strangers way". I did have a GSD like that. He's ok with strangers for the most part. He occasionally is distrustful about certain people or situations but he is still pretty immature and I could say the same about some of my other herding breed dogs as adolescents. More often than not he either doesn't pay attention to strangers or is over friendly. I have met every sort of PyrShep from ones that were super friendly to ones who were aloof to ones that were "no touch" dogs and everything in between. I have met probably more PyrSheps than a lot of people who own them have because of where I live and because I have been able to go to several of their National Specialties. How they are with strangers can vary from dog to dog but they aren't a breed to get if having a gregarious dog is important to you because that is not how the breed is supposed to be.

    Savvy is definitely quite attached to me, however he's independent in a way too. On walks he is way more easily distracted by environmental things than my Belgians, GSDs or Cardi have been. When he is in drive though, he's pretty single minded. He can be easily frustrated and overstimulated in some situations. He is not a soft dog by any means, which may have been my biggest surprise about PyrSheps. They are tougher than you might have the impression of them being. I don't know how he'd hold up to continued use of harsh corrections because I don't use them. But he is not easily put off of something he wants to do and bad experiences do not seem to stick with him very long. He does hate the force dryer at work though and nail trimming makes him sad.

    I always refer people interested in PyrSheps to Silvia Trkman's sites. From a training standpoint, I think she's probably the most well versed person in the breed because she not only has PyrSheps but many PyrShep owners go out of their way to attend her classes, seminars, etc.
    Her PyrShep specific articles:

    FearShep
    http://silvia.trkman.net/fearshep.htm

    PyrShep Vs BC
    http://www.lolabuland.com/2010/06/25/bc-vs-ps/

    Choosing An Agility Dog (actually quite a bit of PyrShep info too): http://silvia.trkman.net/steps.htm
     
  8. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Darn... making me covet pyr sheps again. I really do need to meet some.
     
  9. golden&hovawart

    golden&hovawart New Member

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    BTW,now that I am back,in Fr,I am thinking of getting another one.I like the breeders,here, better as they stay truer to the standard.
    Also there is a difference of character in bet the Face Rase and the rough coated one.The face rase are calmer,a bit taller,a lot less hair and considered easier,for the 1st time owner.
    A good breeder will help you choose the right one but the general rule,is to go for the bolder one.The one that comes to you and bites yr shoes cos he will be less shy.
    Also,a person that is hyper(in the negative sense) will not be a good fit with them.
    Many people wanted one,after meeting Daisy cos she was a very secure,loving and intelligent dog.She was also a bit of a circus dog & confortable in any situation.She could do anything you wanted.For an idear of height,my females were 17in and my males 19in which is within the standard but on the tall side.
    I preferthe look of the rough coated over the Face Rase.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  10. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    It's totally silly and aesthetic but I really wish they came smooth faced more often...probably 90% of the ones I've met have been rough and the few smooths are just so much more my style.

    Do the U.S. breeders dock/crop their dogs?

    Personality-wise I'd say 50% of the ones I've met are dogs I'd love to own (if they weren't rough! lol). Bright, funny, climbing the walls, very intense, athletic...just my kind of livewire. But about a quarter were just weird or semi nonfunctional...totally overwhelmed by their environment, excessively shy, etc. And they nearly all came from the same single breeder.
     
  11. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    LOL This reminds me of being told "they're too hyper to do anything with" and thinking "sounds fun!".

    LOL Someone forgot to tell Silvia Trkman's "Crazy Little La" that she is supposed to be calm :)

    [​IMG]

    I have heard the SF are supposed to be friendlier, better for performance, etc. I'm not sure if there is much truth to it or not though. I've known a few Sf and they are friendly (one of Savvy's mom) but I've known RF who were equally friendly. I would have taken either variety but a SF puppy was the one who seemed perfect for me (although by no means calm LOL). He gre up to not be a SF though, so I don't know what that would mean! The SF in AKC are allowed to be a bit taller, although that doesn't make a lot of sense to me since they can come from the same litters as RF.

    This seems to for sure be the case if by hyper you mean uptight, nervous and easily freaked out by the "what if's" of their dog's behavior. I find this to be true of Belgians as well, although probably to an even greater degree in PyrSheps.

    Best I can tell by the FCI standard is that males should be roughly 16.5" - 18.5" and females should be 15.5" to 18". With the 1/2" tolerance each direction for "perfectly typed specimens", you get an allowance for 15" - 18.5" for girls and 16" - 19" for males. The AKC standard isn't quite the same but it's still pretty close: "Rough-Faced: males: 15 ½ to 18 ½ inches at the withers, females: 15 to 18 inches. Smooth-Faced: males 15 ½ to 21 inches at the withers, females 15 ½ to 20 ½ inches at the withers." http://www.akc.org/breeds/pyrenean_shepherd/

    The thing with PyrSheps are they are within that medium size range that can be hard to main the Just Right size. The natural tendency seems to want to go either smaller or larger. Look at the size issues in Shelties (roughly in the same medium size range) - in one litter you can have undersized, just right and oversized out of just right parents. It's the same with PyrShps, although probably not quite as bad because they have a wider acceptable range. The variance in size is actually not a bad thing in a lower number breed. Many people won't breed dogs who are over or undersized enough to be DQ'd, so having a wider range allows more dogs to potentially remain in the gene pool. And truth be told, in a working situation I don't think the shepherds really cared if their dogs were within the "ideal size" or not. They cared the dog could get the job done. Some may have preferred smaller, some larger but I doubt they were measuring their working dogs and saying "nope too small/big to breed".

    I don't know anyone in the US breeding smaller PyrSheps for Flyball, as they just aren't that popular in the sport. Maybe they are in Europe though? In the US, the dogs being bred for height dogs in Flyball are mixed breeds.


    Not silly at all! RF would have never appealed to me 10 years ago, as I didn't like scruffy looking dogs. My tastes changed though because I met Laekenois and thought they were pretty neat. Now I really like the scruffy look in dogs LOL I like SF and RF both now :)

    90% sounds just about right, as I have been told only about 10% of the breed is SF. There are some breedings done now for SF puppies, so if you want one you have a good chance if you buy from a SF x SF breeding. Historically, SF just occasionally popped up in RF litters. Some surprise you though, as they start off SF and get scruffy. Like Savvy!

    SF baby Savvy 10 weeks
    [​IMG]

    Getting scruffy... 5 months
    [​IMG]

    Scruffy! 9 months

    [​IMG]

    Savvy seems like he'll probably stay "Demi- rough", so a RF but without the full coat, full face. IOWs...he'll stay scruffy but not super hairy.

    Savvy's mom is definitely a SF
    [​IMG]

    And his dad is RF
    [​IMG]



    Yes and no. Cropped/docked, Cropped/natural, natural/docked and all natural are all equally allowable per the AKC standard. Savvy is obviously all natural but his brother was cropped/docked. His breeder does some and leaves some natural, some breeders dock all puppies and want all cropped, some leave them all natural and some do any combination. There is also a possibility for natural bobtails. Depending on when you get your puppy and how picky you are on ears, it can be up to you if you want to crop or not. Some people dock them late too. Some people glue natural ears to get them set right, some just leave them do what they'll do. In the show ring, you see all variety of looks for sure. I definitely had a preference of all natural but would have taken a cropped and/or docked puppy if it was the right puppy.

    Personality-wise I'd say 50% of the ones I've met are dogs I'd love to own (if they weren't rough! lol). Bright, funny, climbing the walls, very intense, athletic...just my kind of livewire. But about a quarter were just weird or semi nonfunctional...totally overwhelmed by their environment, excessively shy, etc. And they nearly all came from the same single breeder.[/QUOTE]

    You and I like the same things in them :)

    I've definitely seen PyrSheps I wouldn't want too. There is definitely a tendency in them towards being weird, reactive, etc and certainly in some more than others. They absolutely need the right sort of socialization and training from an early age and GoldenHovawart gave great advice on choosing a puppy I think. Most in the US/Canada come from one of two big breeders or people who got their dogs from those breeders, so there is definitely a wide range even from the same lines. Although saying "lines" may not be entirely accurate. The breed as a whole is pretty inbred, so they're mostly all related anyway at least, that is my understanding.
     
  12. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yeah it's probably a bad sign that every time I hear about them I just think they sound fun. I think I will definitely end up with one one day.
     
  13. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Gosh the smooth faces are cute. Love the pic of Savvy's mom.

    And yeah I very much so prefer natural ears/tail. But with me that preference is so strong that if there were two pups, one natural and one dock/cropped...and the dock/cropped one fit me a lot better...I would probably pass on them both and wait. Just my personal preference though :)

    And to clarify on the last part because I'm not sure I was clear -- all the PyrSheps I know are essentially from the same breeder, not just the weird ones. I believe I phrased that rather awkwardly earlier.
     
  14. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    She is cute and somewhat undomesticated looking LOL

    I felt the same way initially about docked PyrSheps but the more I was around them, the less I cared. I actually like the look of cropped RF quite a bit but less so with the SFs, it's just not something I'd choose to do. I find myself being very glad that Savvy has all his parts - his ears are adorable and change several times throughout the day from rose to flopped to one rose, one flopped to nearly standing.

    Yes that is what I thought you were saying! My response was more along the lines of "you'll have that" but maybe I was the one who wasn't all together clear in that.
     
  15. vandog

    vandog Merlie Girlie!

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    I've seen many lovely examples (especially now that they are gaining popularity in agility) but buyer beware - certain lines have a reputation for producing dogs that are not sound mentally. Really a breed that I suggest you get plenty of "hands on" time before you decide.
    ... I'd love to own one someday.
     

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