Agility training

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Panzerotti, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I don't find a running contact always works best at least not with AAC courses. A friend just sent me a vid (its private or I would link to it) from a masters standard course. The dog ends up flying straight down a line to the teeter. RIGHT after the teeter is a jump.. then the finish line. But your dog cant' take the jump going towards the 'crowd' it has to go around the jump and jump it back towards the teeter. Now a fast dog with an early commitment point is likely going to commit to that jump, now if you call off you risk a fly off the teeter or maybe a redirect to another jump that would be between the handler and the dog at that point.

    Now I am sure it is possible with a running contact. But it takes way more other skills for the dog to be profficient in. You can release as soon as the dog collects so the dog doesn't have to fully stop or you can ask them to hold it.. depending on what is requried. Kaiden has running contacts, but he's not all that fast so its no biggie. Dekka is VERY fast and low on impulse control. I will stick to my 2o/2o :D

    Panzerotti....Sadly I don't get to barrie much (though I am driving to Sudbury next month lol) I might hit a muskoka trial (if they are still having them.. not sure)
     
  2. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    So today's RC training was awesome! And of course I didn't get video.

    I was able to pack the board into the snow a bit (bit more like a carpet that way, flatter on the ground), I put up a few sticks to make a little channel, and I moved it all to a large area so that I could really whip her ball and get her running. It was way more fun than last time, and by the end I was able to start her further back and send her while throwing her ball. Fun stuff! :D
     
  3. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Dekka you make a good point regarding different challenges in different venues re: RCs vs. Stopped, etc. Not that it can't be done but that certain things have to be taken into account. In CPE for instance RCs would definitely be very doable...same with NADAC. With AKC you start running into interesting hallenges...doable yes definitely but you better either be fast as a handler or have taught a lot of verbal skills to compensate. Sounds like you guys incorporate even more of the FCI type course elements which would be even more complicating.

    Not saying one is better than the other...that's a decision to be made on a team-by-team basis...just saying that while RCs are definitely flashier they may or may not be faster, depending on the team and the course in question.
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Sloan and I had a lot of fun in our handling skills class last night. We're really getting in sync with one another for our rear-crosses and our teeter settling. :)
     
  5. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Agreed. AAC Master's courses can be very challenging and involve a lot of tight turns. And Silvia Trkman has mentioned that with the increasing popularity of running contacts, judges have been throwing tight turns and traps after contacts a lot.

    That reminds me, I have to start training directionals soon! :p
     
  6. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    those are some fast dogs in those videos, nice
     
  7. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    That sounds perfect and I could see how that would make a big difference. From what I've seen/read, the reason for the carpet and/or wider flatter plank is that you're way more likely to get actual running when there's little to no difference between the object and the ground. So having the board in snow would help accomplish the same thing.

    And next time - video! :D

    FWIW The teeter is generally not trained as a RC, as there is some degree of pausing needed to correctly perform it. When people talk about RCs, they are generally talking about a-frame and dogwalk. Plenty of people use running contacts in Europe, where challenges like you mention are pretty common on courses. But yeah, you need to teach the dog turns off the contacts or you can have issues with off courses.

    An early release is a happy enough compromise between the two for a lot of people. Polona Bona─Ź trained her dog to do both a RC and a 2o2o which is pretty cool! So I guess that is an option too :)
    http://youtu.be/H9pJFYIEECU

    I wish I had known more about RC training when Ziggy was young. He has HopeNPray style contacts. Well I'm not sure that's even entirely accurate...he has Race'em to the End and Try to Slow 'em Down or Distract 'em style contacts :rofl1: He's so fast, frantic, easily frustrated and has such little impulse control that I have a feeling maintaining 2o2o contacts would have been an ongoing battle. Being a Corgi 2o2o may have been a bit awkward for him anyway. Trained RCs would have been ideal and I may still play around with that, although he's 8 1/2 now (where does the time go?).

    Whim's 2o2o contacts are pretty good, although it's hard to continue to maintain speed all the way down and the stop at the end. I do early release sometimes with her, mostly to encourage the speed. I think she's only missed a contact once at a trial and it was her first trial and a UKC trial with a tiny a-frame. She's getting better and better now with sticking her contacts while I run past and with distance work. Next I'll have to work on her going ahead of me and holding 2o2o. Jagger has a 4on contact that has degraded a lot over the years, not in the missed contact way but in the sliding down the a-frame anticipating a release way. The creeping/sliding/anticipation issues seem to be a pretty common problem with 2o2o for a lot of dogs/people.

    I think the basics of 2o2o can be much easier to train than a RC. However, to get a solid no matter where the handler is or what is going on 2o2o while maintaining good speed and no creeping probably takes at least as much work as a trained RC. Although I'm not sure it requires as much space. To teach RCs you really do need to have access to at least a dogwalk 2-3x a week at a point. The early work can all be down with a plank but at a point, you need the DW. 2o2o training can be practiced a bit more creatively.
     
  8. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I always like agility threads! I need to get some video of Gusto and the work he's doing right now. He just blows my mind (in such a good way!) with how quickly he picks stuff up and how much drive he puts into everything. He saw his first (lowered) dog walk last week in class, and we were just having them jump on a table next to it, then run down the plank to their contact behavior (2o2o for Gusto - not messing with that!). We are in session three of a Performance Puppy class with the same trainer I use for Meg, and I love it. Lots of work on balancing control and drive (crate games, zen, restrained recalls), flatwork stuff (flip, wraps around jump standards, front crosses) and just getting into the actual equipment. This puppy makes me so excited for the day he gets to start trialling!

    Meg is sort of on maintenance at this point, with some sessions focused on distance work whenever we can make it happen. She got Masters Gamble #4 this past weekend, and we now just need the last one for her ADCH. I'm hoping to get that and her Tournament Masters title (she just needs one more team Q for that) in February/March, and I probably won't trial her a ton after that. A few favorite events only. I had thought about going for her MACH, as I think AKC will be far more her speed than USDAA, but I'm not sure I want to put the money into it right now. I've promised her she never has to run Gamblers or Pairs again once she gets that ADCH, so we will just play around with things like Snooker, Standard, Jumpers and Steeplechase, all of which she loves. She's given me more than I ever had a right to expect, and I suspect she will be thrilled to let Gusto take her place on the start line!
     
  9. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    Steve's doing stopped contacts for my sake. He is so fast and I am so green and I need those stopped contacts in order to mentally catch up. I figure I can always use an early release when it's appropriate. Stopped contacts also seem infinitely easier to teach, and that's good for me! :p
     
  10. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    We've gone to training almost exclusively running contacts at my facility. With the exception of a few dogs for whom a stop is a necessity (body type or REALLY slow handler), all the newbies are learning RC's.

    I love runnings. My dog is a crazy speed demon, but I've yet to find a running contact to be a hindrance. It just means I handle certain things differently. (To clarify though, I'm really only talking about the frame/dog walk. The teeter I guess is a running (she doesn't wait at the bottom once it's hit the ground), but it's kind of a stop by default since she has to wait for it to lower).

    We've just signed up for a distance class starting next month. It's something that's going to be a big challenge for me, but I think it will be fun!
     
  11. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    How do you guys teach the teeter? I've been starting to think about it, though I think I'll wait a while to start the training.

    Are you taking a Silvia course?
     
  12. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    It wouldn't really matter they would do that off a dog walk or frame too, just happened to be the teeter.

    As I mentioned (and someone else did) its venue specific to a point. I would have no issue what so ever doing running with CPE. Courses just aren't that trappy and there is more space between things. To a point you need to train to what you are going to run. My fave is AAC, and the AAC courses seem to be being more and more trappy so either you need crazy directionals, or a stop. I dont' know what it is you run.

    With JRTs a stop is the easiest :D

    Also its a matter of know your dog. Fast dogs who take wide corners actually take longer on course than slower dogs who take better lines. So if stop contacts aids in control and saves you from having to call your dog back it can help you save time. (a stop doesn't have to be long at all either)
     
  13. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I suspect that there are people successful with RCs in all venues. Certainly a number of people in Europe with RCs and those courses are very twisty, turny, trappy.


    No doubt! It just wasn't the best specific example of a specific course where a RC wouldn't work because the teeter is by nature not going to be a RC.
     
  14. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    For the teeter, I'm a big fan of The Bang Game. I recently retrained Whim with the Bang Game and her teeter performance is so much more confident and solid now! Pre-teeter foundation work is useful too though and involves tricks and play that makes the dog confident with things moving/making noise when touched. You can teach your dog to push a skateboard around with his front feet, close cupboard doors and/or drawers with their feet or nose, shape interacting with strange objects (first easy ones like a box, then harder ones like a wobble board or even a lid from a trash can) and filling up a kiddie pool with plastic bottles and throwing toys into it (just a few bottles at first and work towards filling it all the way up). You can easily make a wobble board out of a piece of wood large enough to hold your dog and a towel or pillow under it.
     
  15. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    I don't know what it is I run either :p I've done USDAA and NADAC trials, and AKC run throughs (though never an AKC trial). My trainer is an AKC judge, so our class courses are all prior courses she's set for AKC.

    I think the main reason we've switched to almost all runnings is because it is SO easy to demotivate your dog with a stop if it's not really carefully monitored. We've all seen the pathetic "creep" down the back side of the frame when it's not trained incredibly carefully. With a running, you'll never have that issue (you just have to balance the leaping instead--but I'd rather have an over-excited leaper than a timid crawler)

    I dunno. Neither is wrong--I just haven't yet seen a situation where I've needed a stop. It's not really that big of a deal in the scheme of things. I have no desire to compete at a national level, so I don't think it will ever make a difference.
     
  16. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Another thing to start! I did this sort of stuff a lot when she was young and she was cool with it. I'll rig up a wobble board of some sort to play with again though, that's a good idea.

    It really is amazing how many things there are to teach in agility.
     
  17. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    WOBBLE BOARDS! I didn't use them when I learned the teeter with Lucy, but we do it with all our level 1 students now. The results are awesome.
     
  18. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Well yes and they train all those myriad of other crazy skills so they can do it too lol.

    Cali>> None of my dogs do the creep. I have seen it but I have never seen anyone train who ended up with the creep so I don't know if its lack of specific criteria. Dekka drives into that position (well we have issues in trials with the stop not happening.. :rolleyes:) and sits there hair trigger ready to go again. So I can see it being an issue with a really soft dog or people who don't train specifically (you know the 'good enough') sorts. That said Kaiden has a running contact. Its ok, he sometimes misses the contact if he is really enthusiastic. His stride is different when he is really 'up' than when he is normal. I know I could work on it, but really I just pull him out to play in masters gamblers as thats our class :D
     
  19. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    For those who train running contacts, how often do your dogs see equipment?
     
  20. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    Frame 3-4 times a month. Dog walk 2-3 times a month.
     

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