Agility DVD suggestions and BowWowFlix Question

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by xpaeanx, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    So, I really wanted to sign up for Silvia Trkman's foundation class in Sept/Oct... But, I'm not going to have the proper setup at home and the class cost plus agility ring rental plus travel makes that fairly prohibitive.

    So, my new plan is to rent DVDs from BowWowFlix and practice (ring rental plus as I get my equipment) until I have a sufficient setup at home and then sign up for her class. And since I'm going this way($ isn't completely tied up), I am thinking about signing up at an audit spot for Fenzi's Aug Intro to Nosework for fun. :) I might also do heeling games if it shows up on their course list any time soon.

    Anyway, right now I'm signed up for 1 DVD at a time... But Trkman's foundation DVDs are all rented. I also added her heeling DVD, which is available, so I know they'll send that out... But I really REALLY want the foundations DVD. Those who have BowWowFlix, how do you handle these situations? Should I get 2 DVDs at a time and let one wait until that one comes in? Should I take heeling games off my list so as soon as foundations comes in they send it out? How long do you find it takes to get a DVD if they are all rented?

    And, since I'm signed up... Please suggest away for agility primarily but other suggestions are welcome: rally, disc, dock, nosework, herding or just instructors you absolutely love.
     
  2. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    For Trkman's class you really just need some jumps and a tunnel, though she recommends two tunnels. She does talk about contacts but only very briefly - being that it's foundations you really only start teaching the dog your contact behaviour (a 2o2o or running) and there is a short video about the bang game on a teeter, but it's not necessary. Weave poles are mentioned twice, but IMO she doesn't teach you how to teach weaves (which is fine because I have no lack of other ways I've been taught to teach weaves.) Is that doable?

    If you sign up as a participant, or at least this time around, part of our class fee was that we got to download her foundations DVD.

    Not sure if that helps but having just been in the class I thought I would share!


    As far as other DVDs go, my favourites are Dave Munning's Q-Me, and he has another one he just came out with a few months ago but I don't have it. (It's helped by the fact that Munnings is rather attractive and his accent, holy moly hot stuff.) But anyway I really like how he explains things, I think there's a LOT of good foundations stuff in there, and it's pretty much Greg Derrett handling which makes sense to me. The only downside is that the DVD was not produced the best, so you often have to turn up and down the volume to hear things.

    I have Greg Derrett's foundations DVD also, I don't think I made it all the way through it because there's a lot of info. But I think if I had to pick just one (they were Christmas gifts) I would go with Q-Me. Q-Me is also quite cheaper if you're buying!

    Clean Run has a Foundation Fundamentals DVD set, it's six discs and I'm maybe halfway through. It's really a great puppy training DVD, not just for agility foundations. I like it from the perspective of a dog trainer because it shows her helping people through problems they are having, so I'm learning how to troubleshoot issues that I may not have with my dogs but other people might have.

    Also Susan Garrett's One Jump DVD... but I will say that there are some things on that DVD that Trkman teaches in a way that is a lot more intuitive and makes more sense to me. Specifically threadles and serps, Trkman's method is superior IMO. But I like the One Jump exercises and I think it's worth having.
     
  3. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Thank you for your response Beanie. :)

    I had a few things come up all at the same time, making $ really tight right now. I want to take the video level, bc since I'll be training my first competition dog I want to make sure I'm understanding an applying things correctly so I really want the critique from my videos. Since I'm spending the money on the video level I want to have what she recommends which is 6 jumps and 2 tunnels... So with the class I'm looking at a min of $500(I can't find any of my old jumps!). I'd also like to buy quality pieces over cheaper things just to have something.

    But, she says the class can be sort of tailored to any level and it looks like she does 1 takes 1-2 month break and then does another. So, I was thinking I'd take he next one and start working with Speckles now using the DVD. That gives me time to get everything set up with quality equipment instead of just things I bought in a hurry to take the class and keep costs down.

    Since you took her class recently, did you feel it was more beginner, beginner or flexible for dogs with more practice?

    And thank you for the video suggestions. I'll add them if they are on the rental site.
     
  4. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Or should I just cough up the money and take it now? LOL.
     
  5. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Well, the class just ended (or rather Sunday is the last day.) So the next time to take it is Sept/Oct. I have not decided if I'm going to pay to do it again or not. My experience has not been entirely positive. Partly because I paid for the video level expecting to be in my house and here we are with the class ending and I'm still not. So I am frustrated by that external factor. But I also did not post a lot of videos I DID have, because I saw a lot of comments that seemed harsh and I did not feel were especially helpful either (amounting to "watch the video again.") I didn't feel like I could easily post a video where it was clear we were still learning. So I didn't post a lot of videos.
    I want to be clear I don't believe she's trying to be harsh, I think it's a language barrier issue, that's just how it seemed to me. I saw comments I thought "If she said that to me I would be hurt." Maybe my dog training ego is just fragile. I don't know.


    If you start now with the DVD you will probably not experience that though, because you'll have already taught stuff rather than be trying to squeeze it all in during the way-too-short course. She is upfront that the course is jam-packed and many people take it repeatedly because of the glut of information. So getting a head start is not a bad idea.

    I don't want to tell you not to take it because there's a lot of good information, and the DVD is great. I'm just not sure how I would rate my experience at this point in time. Like I said it's entirely possible my dog training ego is fragile and I just really don't want to be told I'm failing with my dog because I already think that so I don't need to hear other people say it...
     
  6. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Ok, based on your response I think I am going to wait.

    I need positive training too. LOL. I don't do well with negative training... For instance, "that was a good start but we need to get you here. I think if we try x, y, z it might help" works much better with me than "No, that was completely wrong. You need to go do it again and do it this way."

    I'm sorry you felt frustrated, and I'm sure the house situation completely didn't help at all. I know I find it hard to train when I'm not happy about something(ie something with the area was supposed to be done and it's not), it just give me that bit of overall frustration that dogs pick up on.

    I'm going to sit out the Sep/Oct one and take the class after if you decide you want to take it later. I'll try that one at video level and see how it goes. If I find her too mean I might do the other classes but at a lower level. But, maybe the extra time and the head start on her DVDs will help us out a bit? Idk, we'll see I guess.
     
  7. k9krazee

    k9krazee Active Member

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    I had never heard of BowWowFlix! Sometimes I think I live under a rock ;)

    But now I'm all signed up with a queue full of DVDs! Thanks!!!!!
     
  8. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    I'm glad I could be of assistance. :)

    I have a full Queue now too. LOL. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of the ones I was really looking forward to are "temporarily all rented out." Heeling was shipped yesterday, I am excited to get it but it was slightly lower on my list. Of course, getting to rent all these DVDs without the high cost is a awesome... So I guess I can't be too crabby about it. LOL.
     
  9. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Just for what it is worth...there was a big to do about the service a while ago, because it basically screws the trainers out of the money they should be making off the DVDs. Most of the trainers I know (and yes, there are a few notable exceptions, or at least one) aren't getting rich off what they do, and that money probably does matter to them. I think the service is part of why the online classes got so big suddenly, and why the prices are so high. Trainers are going to stop putting out DVDs if they can't make money off of them, and will keep charging hundreds or thousands of dollars for online classes instead.

    Take it for what you will.
     
  10. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    Well, the otherside to this is that if I had to spend $70 per DVD I wouldn't be able to afford to take their online classes. In this case I fully intend to take Trman's classes at video level. I want to rent the DVD now and get a head start on it so when I take the class, I can get the most out of it. I'm also on the list for Susan Garrett's Recallers, I'm waiting for the email that says when that class starts up and enrollment begins. And I will be taking classes at Fenzi's. I also own several books by various instructors that I plan renting DVDs from. Bottom line is that they are getting money from me, and they should be getting royalties from BowWowFlix... If not they have an easy case to win.

    I am not making a profit on any of this either. My dogs are pets only, and if we get where I hope we can, they'll still only be pets(albeit super awesome ones). The most "profit" I may get out of any of this is when I go back to fostering dogs, the adopter will have the benefit of a dog trained using positive training methods.

    Basically, it all comes down to I have a very limited amount of $ to work with and I need to spend it the way that benefits my dogs the most. The DVDs cost a lot of money, and while they contain great information, there is no room for questions. The online classes allow for that, even if you audit only chances are very high that someone will ask your question. The extra premium for a class is therefore worth it. With the video level, I can get actual critique on me and my dog, so that is very much worth the premium. So when I am supporting the trainers in other ways, I don't feel bad about renting their DVDs instead of buying them. The DVDs I end up really liking will be bought(I am also leary of buying them incase I seriously dislike the DVD) and the incidence for me getting turned on to new trainers and start supporting them increases.
     
  11. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I certainly didn't expect to change many opinions on the service, but I figured I'd throw that out because it is something I wouldn't have thought about, and it did change my willingness to use BowWowFlix. My friends laugh at me because I still buy my music off iTunes instead of recording it off YouTube. We all have limited money to spend on our dogs and sports (some more than others!) and we each are free to use it as we see fit. The online classes are such a crap shoot for me (hated Recallers, love my Agility University class), I hate to see any one medium for sharing training information start to disappear. It's so individual as to what works for each person, the more ways to get information out, the better!
     
  12. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    The YouTube video downloads will go the way of limewire, the music industry has more money to fight with than dog trainers.


    I never really thought about the issue though, fwiw I appreciate it.
     
  13. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    I don't think it's fair to compare this to youTube downloads(which I don't do either FYI).

    I'm paying to rent a video. The maker of the video was commissioned when the video was bought and they absolutely should get royalty every time it gets rented. I also pay them when I take their classes, buy their books and encourage other to do the same. Plus if I decided I want to have the DVD on hand all the time and buy it.

    It is kind of unfair for trainers to say they won't make DVDs anymore if they can be rented. Books can be rented, movies can be rented, college text books can be rented, CDs can be rented, cars can be rented, any type of sports equipment can be rented. I shouldn't be forced into only being able to see a DVD if I buy it. Again, I am PAYING to rent I and I FULLY believe they are entitled to royalties off of that. So again, when I am supporting them in so many other ways and I am not illegally downloading their work why should I feel guilty about renting a DVD title?

    If they are not getting their royalties, then I would support them in a lawsuit to get their royalties but I will not support the idea to completely end renting.
     
  14. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    The way I see it (in my own mind, where things like guilt fester with abandon), it isn't that I'm doing something wrong or illegal by renting the video, but I'm supporting a business that is essentially stealing from the trainers. If there were a service that rented videos and paid royalties to the trainers, as I assume 'regular' movie rental services do, I would have no problem supporting them. *This* company doesn't (or at least didn't; to be fair I haven't paid attention to it lately) do that. So I won't support them.

    I like a lot of the trainers I've met and worked with as people. I've watched them drive off in beat up cars with ridiculously high mileage, watched them try to (again) patch up their RV to get through another season. Their jobs require them to keep trialing and traveling and training so that they can stay current and relevant. Most of the ones I know aren't getting rich. And I doubt many of them have the knowledge or money to initiate a lawsuit, so they find other ways to generate income.

    I know this comes across as "you should feel guilty!", and I can't figure out how to make it not sound that way. I'm sharing my thoughts because, like I said before, it never would have occurred to me until I heard trainers saying how much it was affecting their income, and how it made them not want to put out more DVDs. So, I share my thoughts in case others aren't aware of the issue. Like I said, I'm not expecting to change everyone's minds, but for those to whom it matters, I feel like they should be aware.
     
  15. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    AFAIK Bow Wow Flix doesn't give any royalties to trainers. They pay for however many copies of the DVDs they buy and that's as much as the trainers see.


    I know Denise Fenzi has said she is not interested in making DVDs because people rent/copy them so freely that it just isn't worthwhile. Competition dog training DVDs are a small niche market, so it's hard to really compare them to the likes of major motion pictures or cars or what not.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't rent the DVDs, just that it is what it is. I signed up for Bow Wow Flix once mostly because I wanted to watch SG's DVDs while I was in Recallers and I really didn't have the money after paying for Recallers to also buy the DVDs. But I promptly cancelled my subscription because it became obvious that I might pay have to make many monthly payments before any of the DVDs I wanted to watch became available. I don't really have time or attention span to sit around and watch a bunch of random training DVDs that might be interesting while waiting for the handful of DVDs I actually wanted to see. IOWs for me, it wasn't really much of a bargain - those popular titles by popular trainers are often rented out with really long waiting periods.
     
  16. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Just wanted to add that I bought Dave Munnings second DVD yesterday and it shipped from Clean Run this morning. I liked his first DVD so much, and his attitude in general from his posts and videos on YouTube and such, that I decided to buy the second DVD too. So I will post my thoughts on that one too as soon as I get it and watch through it (early next week maybe.)


    Often the DVDs are expensive, but if you look at it from the perspective of how much does it cost for these instructors to hire a company to film, create, produce the DVDs, then actually manufacture them and get them distributed... and the fact that they are distributed to a pretty small audience... I don't really think they're price gouging or anything. Excepting the above and one more DVD (I bought Success with One Jump off Amazon using some gift cards) I always ask for them for Christmas, because I can't really afford them either. By forking over the cash for Turn-Me, I'm accepting that I might not be able to buy groceries next week, as it happens. I've got quite a little collection now and they are all from people buying me the DVDs for Christmas over the last several years. Clean Run also offers some DVDs as a watch on-demand type of thing for a cheaper price, and I did that once and would consider it with other DVDs too... but they don't have the option on anything I want to watch now. =P
     
  17. chelsey

    chelsey New Member

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    I had excellent experiences with Silvia's class. I find her comments to be to the point, and very observant. I also find her to be supportive and encouraging. I was enrolled as a repeater in the last set but didn't submit too much because I've been busy with other trainings and classes, which is my loss, but out of all the online classes I have taken, Silvia's are by far, the best.

    I own most of Silvia's DVDs, I like watching her train more than listening to her explanations. The timing, energy and placement of rewards, her set ups (teaching cik/cap inches in front of a tunnel entrance, for example), etc, I found very useful.

    I find the key thing to succeeding in Silvia's foundations course is to not rush and let your dog get very confident with each step before moving on. For most dogs that doesn't happen in the 3 week per lesson time unless you are training every second day and you have a motivated and mature enough dog. Her repeater rates are very fair and you can get a lot out of her coaching if you just post a lot. I find she is tougher on her repeaters and people she develops a relationship with, and I appreciate that because I don't like paying $$ to be told that something looks good/ok/whatever.

    What I like about her, too, is that she will answer and watch whatever you are working on, even if it is outside the lesson plan. You can video other set ups, things from your other classes, or courses when you are competing and she will watch them and comment. You can also pick what you want to focus on - you can use the class to focus on contacts and weaves for example, or just cik and cap and baby sequencing, or motivation and forward drive, whatever you are working on. At least, that has been my experience with her :) What I also do with all the classes I take is keep a word document of all the bits of advice she gives to me and other people that I think could be useful to me or students, etc. There's LOTS of brilliance in the comments but you have to do your reading, and when the classes are pretty full, there is a LOT of reading.

    I am a fan of the DVD because, well, she used some of my footage of male malinois Wiley :) (who she calls Willy). Even in the DVD she mentions in her commentary while my clips play the stuff that I am doing wrong, and a couple years ago I would of been mortified that this is forever going to be in peoples homes, lol, but now I can smile, be proud of the compliments, learn from the tips and hope that it helps others :)
     

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