Adopting children

[PWCorgi]

Private adoptions I believe are different. If you find someone you know through the grapevine that is pregnant.. It's not really THAT expensive a process.
but yea, the whole domestic adoption through agencies/government and all is very expensive. Which sucks. I think the whole process needs a re-vamp.

Chances are MUCH HIGHER in this hypothetical that "you"/the birth mother would be the one to back out. It happens all the time. Which is why people tend to shy away from private adoptions (especially after those people have paid your rent, med care, prepared for this baby etc..)

The healthy babies from healthy pregnant educated (no drug/alcohol history) women looking to find adoptive parents from their unborn child (commonly young students.Juno style) ...those, in comparison to kids in foster care for example, go like hotcakes. You can basically take your pick of families. If you go to an agency while still pregnant you can search through a bunch of waiting potential families and take your pick. As well as perks like medical expenses covered etc..

Oh and if you are white? Winner winner chicken dinner.
Sad but true.

So do the potential adoptive parents pay rent, food, medical care as a type of wine and dining? Or is that kinda just...what they're supposed to do?

That seems weird to me. Unless the mom is financially strapped, why couldn't they pay their own rent? Obviously they were somehow managing before... I can see where medical coverage would be useful, because you want future baby of yours to be as healthy as possible.

This is all very...foreign, to me. Interesting, but...odd.

 

[Fran101]

I'm "white" (Danish/Scottish/Cherokee Indian), but I don't care one iota what "color" (race/ethnicity) a child is. A child is a child is a child. They all need parents. They all need acceptance. And they all need love.

Oh, I meant in term of women putting their babies up for adoption..the truth is that white babies have a much easier time at getting adopted/longer waiting lists. Not that they are somehow "better" or anything of course lol I think either way, as you said, a child is a child.

If faced with the decision, I probably would go the private adoption route. I was once told by a fertility hospital (I was there to get my eggs checked) that if I DID get pregnant, my babies would be highly adoptable and my eggs were in high demand... weird I know.
Turns out mixed race tan babies are the new thing I suppose
I think it's just such a ridiculous concept. She went as far as to BEG me to come back for a consultation.. why? She knew nothing about me. But hey caramel colored skin!! It's so odd.

 

[Fran101]

So do the potential adoptive parents pay rent, food, medical care as a type of wine and dining? Or is that kinda just...what they're supposed to do?

That seems weird to me. Unless the mom is financially strapped, why couldn't they pay their own rent? Obviously they were somehow managing before... I can see where medical coverage would be useful, because you want future baby of yours to be as healthy as possible.

This is all very...foreign, to me. Interesting, but...odd.

I'm not that familiar with it honestly. I know it isn't required. It's just one of those..things that hopeful parents can do to sweeten the deal I guess.
trouble is, there is no legal way to deal with it/get all that spent money back if the mother backs out. Which is an issue that happens a lot.

I think paying medical expenses is more of a standard. The other stuff I think is just..grey area.

 

[Miakoda]

Oh, I meant in term of women putting their babies up for adoption..the truth is that white babies have a much easier time at getting adopted/longer waiting lists. Not that they are somehow "better" or anything of course lol I think either way, as you said, a child is a child.

I knew what you meant. I think I was responding to something else. ??

But, regardless, you are correct. We were even told it would be easier and faster to get a child of another race, which I do find sad. I don't get how anyone can look at a baby's or young child's face (or, let's face it, anyone's face) and see something different depending on the color of the skin. I thank God my parents raised us to recognize people by their names and not their skin color (I was so naive, I knew people had different color skin, but I didn't understand the issue behind it all until I was in middle school. I had friends of all races/ethnicities, and none of us girls ever got the memo we were supposed to know we were all "different". lol)

If faced with the decision, I probably would go the private adoption route. I was once told by a fertility hospital (I was there to get my eggs checked) that if I DID get pregnant, my babies would be highly adoptable and my eggs were in high demand... weird I know.
Turns out mixed race tan babies are the new thing I suppose
I think it's just such a ridiculous concept. She went as far as to BEG me to come back for a consultation.. why? She knew nothing about me. But hey caramel colored skin!! It's so odd.

My reply in red.

 

[Fran27]

So do the potential adoptive parents pay rent, food, medical care as a type of wine and dining? Or is that kinda just...what they're supposed to do?

That seems weird to me. Unless the mom is financially strapped, why couldn't they pay their own rent? Obviously they were somehow managing before... I can see where medical coverage would be useful, because you want future baby of yours to be as healthy as possible.

This is all very...foreign, to me. Interesting, but...odd.

It depends. A lot of states allow the potential adoptive parents to pay for a lot of stuff It's awful. We purposely went with an agency that didn't allow a lot at all, just rent for 2 months if really needed. But I mean if they place their baby for adoption, they're usually financially strapped, you know? But I don't think the potential adoptive parents should pay the bill... just seems too close to baby buying for comfort for me.

The reasons adoptions are so expensive is that it's sadly pretty much a business. Even for 'non profit' agencies, they have to pay rent, their employees, they do some advertising, they do help expectant mothers with lodging, transport and things like that... legal fees are not cheap either (it was $2500 for finalization alone). It adds up. Plus $1500 for the homestudy. If you find someone on your own (which a lot of people do), you just pay attorney fees pretty much (some states require an agency though), and it can be as low as $8k.

Mia, there's a lot of factors to consider about race honestly. It's not about us, it's about the kind of life you can give to your child. Some people don't want everyone to look at them in the street and want a child that 'looks like them'. Some people don't want their kid to be the only black kid in school. Some people have family members who are not that open minded and don't want the child to be judged or treated differently because of that. For us it was a bit of everything. If we were to adopt now, with hubby's parents mostly gone and now that we live in a more diverse area, I wouldn't think twice about being open to race.

 

[Miakoda]

Fran, I wasn't judging anyone by any means.

 

[milos_mommy]

As horrific I think it is that skin color is even still a factor in adoptions, I would absolutely understand why white parents might want to adopt only a white child...just because someone isn't racist doesn't mean they're ready or able to help a child cope with all the racism around in the world...especially if the parents have never dealt with it directly themselves.

 

[Dizzy]

I can't speak how other places work in terms of adoption.

Here in the UK the child's identity is VERY important, and is used in the matching process. Matching families for adoption is a very tricky process. As much as they can, they look to find a family that meets all the child's needs, and that includes understanding their own culture and heritage. They do place children of different heritages in say a white family, but culture and heritage is HUGELY important. A family of a different heritage must demonstrate that they have the ability to manage that child's feelings and questions as they grow up.

If I was placing a Chinese child, and there was a Chinese family and a white family, with equal footing in terms of what they could offer, I'd choose the Chinese family over the white family.

Here we have (what some call forced) adoptions - were children are adopted without the parents consent (in child protection cases for example, where parents can't make the changes needs in the timescales for that child).

They try to match the child to the family as adoption breakdowns are horrible (and DO happen). People have to be ready to accept that there is a reason that the child is not with the family, and may have issues because of that. If children are babies, and have spent all their life in foster care, then they might have a better start in terms of attachment, but they could have organic issues which won't arise till they're older (nature/nurture).

The parents could have been long-term drug or alcohol misusers, or have mental health problems, or have been exposed to harms when pregnant which no one knows about.

Attachments difficulties are the main reason these things breakdown (I am working with a girl at the moment who was adopted at 6, and it has broken down - she never attached to her parents as mum and dad - just people who looked after her).

Children aren't always grateful that they have been adopted. And people can't forget that. It's not a fairytale...

But, when it works, it's wonderful

 

[Fran101]

I live in a city where adoption and mixed race kids and "non traditional" families etc.. aren't uncommon.. so I guess it's a different view for me.
I can go to the park right now and probably see two men and an african american baby, a aa woman and her white husband and their mixed child, a white mother and her asian mixed baby etc..etc.

but I can certainly understand a family that doesn't live somewhere as open.. not wanting to put a child in that position.
Even if THEY would love the child regardless (which I like to think, any loving person who wants kids would).. it's fair to not want to bring a kid into an environment where he/she would have to face people at school/family members/general public that isn't kind.

It doesn't necessarily mean they are racist. It means they are where they are for whatever reason and want their future child to have the best childhood possible. And that means a life without being bullied, given the cold shoulder from family members, and having to face racism every day.

Being adopted and joining a family is hard enough without having to go to school and face that kind of stuff or have your grandma/grandpa saying things like "That black child is not my grandchild" (which yes, I have heard)

For nearly all of my life, my family has been my safety blanket. We are a huge, loving, loud, supportive, protective bubble that shields the kids from most unpleasantness. We went to small private schools, never really knew bullying or violence, our family dotes on children like they are all small nobel prize winners, we live in a melting pot city with people of all kinds and everyone in this crazy household of crazies is affectionate to the point of being over-bearing lol as in, my high school graduation was attended by over 100 people that flew from over 9 countries to be there. A HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION..... not being loved or wanted is not an option.
and I think that's why it all just..works.

That said, I think, even with the same parents my little cousins have now, how it would be like for them without the support, living in a small town where people were hateful instead of curious, going to schools where they were bullied or lost in the shuffle, with a family that didn't love them as we do..

and think that no, even with loving parents.. things would not have turned out so great for them home wise and behaviorally.

 

[Dizzy]

People want adoptions to WORK. They are often tricky enough without throwing in a whole load of unnecessary stuff in to deal with.

 

[Barbara!]

As horrific I think it is that skin color is even still a factor in adoptions, I would absolutely understand why white parents might want to adopt only a white child...just because someone isn't racist doesn't mean they're ready or able to help a child cope with all the racism around in the world...especially if the parents have never dealt with it directly themselves.

This. In all honesty, I plan to adopt one day. But I don't think I, personally, could adopt a black baby. It's not about being racist, I just don't think I would be able to represent that culture well or help the baby with those sorts of issues. Just not something I'm comfortable with.

 

[yoko]

OK I quit reading half way through partially because I'm lazy and partially because I just woke up XD so excuse me if it rambles.

Also Fran I quoted you the most, not because I think you are wrong just you seem to have some of the best posts here that I can comment on.

First off I'm an adopted Korean. I've always known I was adopted and it would have been pretty dumb for my white parents to try and lie about it. So all the comments on my part are based not on adopting kids internationally but on being adopted internationally so I probably do have quite a few different view points.

3) transracial adoption - most people need to be educated about it. Kids need role models of their race, parents who will know how to deal with racism and prepare their kids for it etc... it's not as easy as saying 'race doesn't matter'.

It isn't as easy as saying race doesn't matter but I disagree with NEEDING role models of their own race. I do think parents should know how to deal with racism but I find the idea that you have to find someone who was a great person and the same race as the child to be kind of wrong. An example would be if you are white and found a role model who is white and presented it to your child as 'they did all these great things AND they're white!' it would be offensive then why would you not think it would be offensive to a minority? A great person is a great person regardless of race and to teach someone that they should look up to someone because they are the same race just seems wrong.

Of course race matters, and yes, children do need to have role models of their own race and parents who are able to help them through the issues that come from growing up as a minority or in a transracial family.

But it's absolutely ridiculous to say that parents of another race aren't capable of helping a child through those issues. Kids need ROLE MODELS they can relate to, of their own race...that doesn't mean the need parents of the same race. And just because someone can't understand racial issues from the point of view of a minority child does not mean that they can't help the child to find ways to cope with it and support that can understand them.

Plus all of the studies that show children in stable, long term, transracial homes are more successful, happier and healthier than children in foster homes or orphanages or unstable homes with parents of the same race.

Aside from my feelings on same race role models I agree with this post.

Actually it's that kind of thinking that bothers me... I know it's meant the best way, but I don't want my kids growing up feeling grateful that we adopted them, like they owe us or something, or even worse, that we saved them. I'm the one who is grateful that we adopted them. They were the greatest gift for ME. They could have ended in any family, but we are the lucky ones because we got chosen.

For me, adoption should be selfish. It should be about wanting a child, not wanting to 'save' them.

For that just don't raise them to be that way. My parents were incredibly open about me and my two brothers *also adopted*. But never did they say things like 'we saved you from a horrible situation', 'if we hadn't come along to help you who knows how long you'd have been in the orphanage'. You may think that of course people wouldn't say that but people do. Don't act like it was a heroic thing act like it was an act of love, like it should be, and I don't see too many problems arising. And alone side of those feelings I see a LOT of children with birthparents who claim their mom or dad are their hero and they are eternally grateful for what they did for them. So gratefulness shouldn't be considered a bad thing. Hero and worship are.

Just to speak up on inter-racial adoptions. Since we are a mixed race family that adopted kids from quite a few cultures...

3. Let them learn about their birth culture, but don't force it upon them. Some may want to learn the language, partake in traditional coming of age stuff, etc.. but some are just fine with your traditions It's very personal and not mandatory.

Agree 100% with this. My parents meant well but I went to Heritage Camp during the summer for a few years. It was fun as a kid being around all asians who had also been adopted. But as I got older it wasn't as fun. You saw how people messed up with some of them and just felt like 'your heritage' was being shoved down your throat. I made great friends there I still talk to but I have NEVER been interested in learning about Korea and felt like I was having school forced upon me by adoptive parents that felt that I may be missing out on something by not learning it. I also say 'your heritage' because I came over as a baby. I never knew Korea and never considered it mine. Forcing me to go to this was insanely confusing for a LOT of us as we got older. When we weren't young children and it wasn't just fun camp any more it really did come off to a lot of us as our parents forcing a 'ours' and 'yours' thing onto us. NONE of us including some who were adopted at an older age 3/5 remembered Korea and saying things like 'no this is your heritage' after being raised in America was just awkward and hard to deal with.

That being said I do have friends who were interested in Korea and they pursued it but they are a VERY VERY small minority. If you adopt a young child I definitely see the reason for allowing them to learn about where they are from. But at the same time if we don't remember it, it isn't 'our' country any more.


4. Please don't over-romanticize these kids. They are kids.. they are not angels sent from above full of grace and gratitude. I love my little cousins, I really do. but holy hell are some of them spoiled ROTTEN. lol they can be naughty, boisterous, test their limits..they are KIDS.
Don't hold adopted kids to a higher standard like they should be thankful for being adopted any more than you would hold your birth child to that standard because you had them

Totally agree with this. THEY ARE KIDS. They aren't all going to be quiet easy to deal with children. My older brother was pretty easy. He was sarcastic but friendly and very active in school. I was smart/clever. Most of the time I was the ringleader. My younger brother was super talkative and in trouble all the time for talking in class or pulling pranks. It was not easy for my parents.

8. Role models of their race. It's important. Not as important as a well informed, loving family of course. but it does help to know others that look more like them.. to know they aren't weird or odd, just different from their immediate family.
Even for just the physical differences.. things like eyes, hair, skin tone, etc.. I think it's nice that they can have someone to ask these questions and see themselves in.

I already addressed this in above. For me, my brothers, and all the kids I went to Heritage camp for it just wasn't important. If a child asks about people who look like them I don't see a problem. But to go out of your way, after establishing that race doesn't matter in your home, and say 'the look like you!!!' seems really forced and hypocritical imo


9. Teach your kids to take it in stride, in humor and in honesty.

This. The child is going to be asked where they are from, what languages they speak, if they miss their 'real parents', how well they understand english and a ton of stupid questions that really aren't anyone else's business so might as well teach them how to respond young.

I think the one thing that most people don't realize before they adopt internationally is the problems they are going to run into are probably about 95% adults. I had my occasionally run in with a student at school. But everyone had known me there for so long even though I was the only nonwhite kid at school it was never really pointed out and if it was it was shut down pretty quick by my friends/other students.

But adults.. omg. You have to be VERY vigilant around other adults. For some reason they don't think they have to pull any punches with kids. They are the ones that constantly asked if I missed my real family and other super personal questions.

Also I missed about a week of school after 9/11. Not because any students bugged me, my brother, or the principals daughter who was also an adopted korean. But because the parents started throwing fits asking where we three were from and why they should trust their kids around us. It got to the point where some parents surrounded my friend *principals daughter* screamed at her to leave and to never be around their kids so all three of us were pulled from school until it was safe for us to come back.

9/11 was horrible. I was lucky my parents stayed on top of the news and what was going on. But it was a difficult time. I was refused service at so many places. I was a sophomore at the time and that was the first time I really had to deal with full on hate filled racism. So many minorities were being beat up and shot in 'retaliation' that year just kind of sucked for me since I couldn't go a lot of places. And again all the issues stemmed from adults and not people my own age.


Disclaimer: All my comments are based off of me, my brothers and the herd of other adopted asian kids I've had to hang out with year after year. These are kids who were adopted 5 years or younger. The majority of us were raised in the 'country' so were use to being the only minority in our school.

Also if you made it through all this you deserve a prize XD

 

[Fran27]

I'm not surprised that adults are the problem unfortunately. I like to believe that things improve with each generation.

I see your point about the role model thing. I think it's more about growing up around people of the same race really - did you know any other Koreans when you were growing up? Was it important?

About the adoption thing shoved down your throat... seriously I see it a ton in adoption forums, even if the kids is the same race... They make adoption lifebooks, read them to them, read them book about adoption, celebrate gotcha day and whatnot... It's just too much. I don't know how the kids can feel normal if their parents remind them all the time that they're adopted. For my kids we just mention their birthparents occasionally, and whenever they ask the 'where do babies come from' question we'll definitely mention that they were not born from us, but I don't think they 'get it' yet anyway...

 

[yoko]

I'm not surprised that adults are the problem unfortunately. I like to believe that things improve with each generation.

I see your point about the role model thing. I think it's more about growing up around people of the same race really - did you know any other Koreans when you were growing up? Was it important?

I knew quite a few. Most were around my age but I did know a couple adults who I kept in touch with and visited often. To me when I went to hang out with them it wasn't really set up as 'hanging out with my adopted korean friends or korean adults' it was just hanging out with friends. I never really saw it as more important/less important than my nonkorean friends.


About the adoption thing shoved down your throat... seriously I see it a ton in adoption forums, even if the kids is the same race... They make adoption lifebooks, read them to them, read them book about adoption, celebrate gotcha day and whatnot... It's just too much. I don't know how the kids can feel normal if their parents remind them all the time that they're adopted. For my kids we just mention their birthparents occasionally, and whenever they ask the 'where do babies come from' question we'll definitely mention that they were not born from us, but I don't think they 'get it' yet anyway...
I think stuff that's really in your face like a lot of this causes a lot more problems than it resolves.

Also to anyone thinking about international adoption I can say that the BIGGEST annoyance I have is not being born in America. If you don't know where the paper work is you NEED to stay on top of it. You'll need it for drivers license, school, jobs pretty much everything. And for me because of the extra hoops it takes since I have to check 'born outside US' it took me a year and a half just to get a replacement SS card. Luckily I had a job that worked with me. But a LOT of jobs won't be that nice.

 

[milos_mommy]

Yoko, do you think you might feel differently about wanting to know about your heritage or having important Korean role models if those weren't available? For example, if you grew up in a predominantly white area and didn't know ANY other people in minority groups or have the opportunity to meet other children adopted from Korea, or if you were the only adopted child in your family, do you think you would have felt more uncomfortable with your heritage?

 

[yoko]

Yoko, do you think you might feel differently about wanting to know about your heritage or having important Korean role models if those weren't available? For example, if you grew up in a predominantly white area and didn't know ANY other people in minority groups or have the opportunity to meet other children adopted from Korea, or if you were the only adopted child in your family, do you think you would have felt more uncomfortable with your heritage?

I did grow up in a predominantly white area. I was the only minority in school until I was a sophomore in high school. My Asian friends where the ones that I met when I had to go to heritage camp each summer. And even though they were asian they were all raised by white families as well. So even there the 'culture' we were exposed to was during classes. When we wrote and talked it was NEVER about being korean/difficulties with being a minority/being adopted. It was always normal kid/teen stuff. Movies, music, friends, activities stuff like that. My actual interaction with my actual Korean heritage in a normal setting was almost nonexistant.

I honestly don't think I would feel that different. Even when I was younger and enjoyed heritage camp it was just fun because I was hanging out with kids my age. They talked about culture/traditions/language/food but I mean the fact of the matter is, is that stuff isn't mine.

I mean it's kind of hard to explain. I guess technically it is mine, being that I'm Korean, but really it isn't MINE if that makes sense.

I was raised knowing I was adopted and from where. My parents always had an open door approach if I had questions. But really I didn't have any.

I don't really know how to make it clear but I see a lot of people who assume that we are missing things, feel left out, desperately want answers and knowledge about where we were from and some do but so do same race adopted children. A LOT of these questions/feelings are pushed on to us even by well meaning people/family.

I can say the biggest issue most I have talked to have faced is they really weren't interested in where they were from. But because of movies and strangers saying we should care it does make you stop and question if you should find out these answers. You can't just say 'no I never really had any interest in Korea or my birth parents' because that always leads to 'why not? I would want to know. Don't you feel you are missing something?'

Growing up I had more questions about if I really should care about this culture that I have no emotional attachment to at all than I did the actual culture.

 

[yoko]

Also wanted to add:

Sorry if that makes no sense XD

It really is hard to explain to people. I can try to clarify if I need to.

 

[Fran27]

I get it Yoko lol. So it never bothered you not to have other Asian kids around? That's kinda cool.

 

[yoko]

I get it Yoko lol. So it never bothered you not to have other Asian kids around? That's kinda cool.

lol not really there was never any emphasis on the fact that I wasn't the same race as my parents or on race in general so I never really noticed anything was different. I still pay so little attention to race I have trouble remembering if someone I met was black, white, asian or whatever after meeting them.

Besides have you ever seen a bunch of asian kids together?

Here:

Sorry for the bad pic the only pic I have is a normal pic so I had to take a picture with my cell but it's a pic of Heritage camp. I'll be the first to laughingly admit most parents couldn't find their kids in the pic. Trying to find your asian kid in a giant group of asian kids wearing the same thing is like a weird race based where's waldo XD

 

[Fran27]

LOL. I admit I don't know many Asian people but all the ones I've met were quite different looking.