"_____" breed is not like other dogs!

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by JacksonsMom, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    We have some great goldens here. By great I include the fact they're pretty chill and easy to live with dogs as well as great to train and compete with.
     
  2. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    This is kind of unrelated (I just went on a golden retriever agility video spree) and found this and thought it was a cool video: http://youtu.be/7qiQrLvTRJ4

    I love her dogs.
     
  3. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    Well the only thing I have to add is ACDs are part dingo. So there...they aren't like any other breed :p.
     
  4. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Ok...... I've read nearly every post.

    I'm still waiting for this "average dog" breed.....

    Which breed is "average"??? There are no doubt many easy to care for examples in ALL breeds, but there is no average breed.
     
  5. Tahla9999

    Tahla9999 Active Member

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    There still isn't a clear "average" breed of dog that is being deing define here. You know why? Because there isn't! Dogs are way too complex. Dog breeds have so many individual traits that you will have to start by pointing out which traits are easier and which traits aren't. Even then, dogs have many traits that would be consider both "easy" and "difficult." For example, take a gameline APBT. They are known to have a large will to please their owner. Many say that these dogs would do anything to please them, and this would be consider an "easy" trait for a dog to have. They would be waay easier to train than a husky. Yet dog aggression would be put under "difficult" so does that make them a difficult breed, or are they still under easy? Huskys tend to be harder to train, have high prey drive, and very active. Are they classified as "difficult." Does high energy make a dog difficult? Than wouldn't Labradors be classified under difficult too since many of them are high energy? But they are very nice so are they under easy? Does a breed being adaptable make them easy or difficult? There are Dobes, Filas ( aka Karma), pit bulls, GSDs that are adaptable so does that make them average? Are all toy breeds consider easy? Just way too many variables to put any breed under a "average" or "easy" umbrella. ETA A breed considered difficult to one person may not be so difficult to the other.

    IMO, being near a lot of different breeds and owning them are two different things. You can't truly know a dog and all of its glory and downfalls until you own it. And what exactly is an average dog owner? I get the impression that people think the average dog owner owns couch potatoes. It varies from neighborhood to neighborhood in my experience. In my old neighborhood I use to live in, the average dog owner kept their dogs outside. The dogs varied from pit bulls, german shepherds, labradors, chows, etc, far from couch potatoes. The neighborhood I live in now is very dog centric. Most of the dogs live in the house. The average dog owner here do no more with their dogs than most people on here do. They take their dogs on walks, take them to parks to get some good running time, bring their dogs to fun events, teach them some basic tricks, etc. Sure, most may not be as dog obsess as we are like they go on dog forums and try to learn everything about dogs like we do, but they still try their best to make sure their dog is well adjusted. If someone ask me what breed would be best for them, I would have no breed that is off limits. Why? Because it depends on the person! There are people that would do well with a Malinois, GSD, or a Fila. There are people who would be best with labs, goldens, or a yorkie. Honestly, if a person ask you for an opinion like that, more than likely you know them and their lifestyle so you should be able to tell what breed would be good for them. I can honestly say that I can fit a breed for each one of my friends. There are people who I would tell them NOT to get a dog. It just varies.

    I also take offense to the idea that it is only people with so call difficult breeds who put WORK, RESEARCH, and are PASSIONATE about their dogs. There are soo many owners of all breeds who try to learn all there is to know about there breed, whether it is their breed's lines and history to find the perfect match. So many people who use their breed in all areas of performance. I'm impress when I see anyone with the time, money, and patience to put their dog in sports or work. Whether it be someone training their Golden Retriever in agililty, a Chihuahua or Chinese Crested in weight pull, a Jack Russel Terrier in schutzhund, a guild Labrador for the blind, or a Malinois for police work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  6. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I do think there's an average but it's not a narrow definition. For me it's asking 'if I gave this dog to a typical pet owner what would happen?' If Summer was raised by a typical person (which she was) with a few walks and other things here and there she grew up fine. Very stable temperament, easy to have around the house, biddable, just all around easy. She does better with more, she's not a calm dog, but she's fine without it. The only issue with her was her SA, which I can agree is a pain in the butt. Bernard was the same way, grew up with a walk a few times a week and some play time and was just fine and well rounded. Same with Beau and Nikki and Shack and Rosie. Bernard especially had very little in the way of socializing and structured exercise and he has grown up into a solid little bombproof dog. Even with all the work I put in Mia, she will never even come close to being as bombproof in all situations as Bernard.

    Trey and Mia are two that I've had that I do not think fit in this 'average dog' mold for very different reasons. Trey was incredibly fearful and reactive despite having had a lot of attention and work as a youngster. Mia is a busybody (to put it lightly), very prone to obsessive behavior, loudmouth, reactive, and destructive still at three years old. Both have taken a lot more work than the other dogs. I feel badly about Trey sometimes because I could do him much better now that I am more dog savvy. He should absolutely never have been placed into a family pet type of situation.
     
  7. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    No, that's not what I meant. I meant that unlike your average Golden, your average Border Collie is not going to be happy or functional in a pet home.

    I know lots of Goldens are still bred to work, but I am talking about your average show bred Golden. They are perfect for a lot of families, and that is why Golden is so often regarded as the best family dog out there.

    Don't get me wrong, I ADORE Goldens. I still want one some day. I grew up with one. I love them. However, the reason most Border Collies are so difficult for most people to handle is the sheer intensity of them (at least in most lines). Show bred BCs, on average, are pretty similar to Show bred Goldens, in structure and in temperament, but I don't really consider them to be much of Border Collies anyways.

    Like someone else pointed out- when I say Border Collies are not Goldens, that is not an insult at all. Maybe even a compliment. LOL.
     
  8. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    I don't know if there is a really specific average breed, but there is an average dog that the American family who buys a pet is expecting- it is loyal, sweet, protective of the house (to some degree), good with kids, and well behaved without much training.

    Yeah, ok, they're expecting that dog out of Norman Rockwell's paintings, but still, there are breeds out there that better fit that than others.
     
  9. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    "Happy" is a relative term. I can walk around my block and run into 10 border collies with average owners that are very happy.
     
  10. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Anyone who warns against the traditional family getting involved in a breed or line bred for stamina, energy, obsessive tendencies, bite inhibition, independence, velcro behaviors, and beyond is just doing it wrong! I'll let my clients know.

    I crack myself up. Dear mom and dad, go get that mal you've been wanting, it'll surely be a breeze!

    Like I told my class today, my mal is much easier to train than a terrier or a shiba but I give up some of that benefit when it comes to the day in and day out living with him.

    Different dogs suit different homes but most people use "average family dog" to refer to a dog, or breed, that is beneficially easier to own as a pet. Great for walks, play, cuddle, etc but lacking in obsessiveness, potential for bites, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  11. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    :hail::hail: Exactly! Great post!
     
  12. misfitz

    misfitz Ruddy Buttinski

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    Totally agree - a lot of what makes certain breeds 'harder' or 'easier' is the owner's personality. I happen to love herding dogs. They might be considered 'difficult' for the 'average dog owner' - and for someone who is used to gundog breeds (Labs, pointers, spaniels etc.) they would be difficult. OTOH, I would find it difficult to own a Lab or a bully breed, because our personalities clash.

    A person who has grown up with terriers might find a spitz type difficult. A person who has grown up with bully breeds might not like herders, etc. ,etc. I think a lot of it is owner and breed personality, and what you're familiar with.

    As far as an 'average family home', I'm not sure how to define that. There are so many individual variables to each situation, average is kind of a moving target IMO.
     
  13. Tahla9999

    Tahla9999 Active Member

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    Right. I hope to dear God that if a family approach you and ask you to recommend a breed for the family, you don't tell them "go for a lab or golden" but rather "tell me about your family". I assume your directing this post at me and if so I don't see where you got that from my post saying that I would recommend a Mali to everyone.

    This is the post your probably misunderstanding me. I said that no breed was off limits because different breeds fit different people. There are people who would fit with a GSD. There are people who would fit with a Papillion. There are people who would fit with a Malinois. You fit a Malinois.

    I volunteer at my humane society almost once every week and the dogs I've seen there weren't hard working dogs that were too much for a person. Most of these dogs were lab or golden mixes, mutts, pit bulls, small dogs of various breeds, etc. Good majority of them were laid back! Most of them were what you would call "easy"! I remember the red doberman we got who had little drive what so ever, very laid back, with a good personailty. Or the 6 month old pup who resembled a long leg brittany spaniel who had little play drive who just wanted to snuggle. Honestly, my favorite dogs there were typically the dogs who were active with a good play drive and believe me, they were rare. Sometimes, I use to think these dogs were given away because they offer no challenge to the people!

    This. In my neighborgood there are a people who own a Vizsla, another owns a goldendoodle, another owns two Rodesian Ridgebacks and a Jack Russel, another own a DA cocker spaniel, there are a couple of mixes, another owns two shetland sheepdogs, there is a person with a german shepherd, another owns a VERY DA border collie, another owns a nice Akita mix, another owns a beagle, another has what looks like a blue color border collie, another has a shepherd type dog who once attack mine, another owns a Weimaraner, another have pit bulls, another has a spaniel, another has Pembroke Welsh Corgi, and another has a couple of labradors. Now tell me what is the average dog owner?
     
  14. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Nope, my post wasn't directed at you.

    I have, repeatedly, told you my loose gathering of the average family and the suitable average dog for such a family. There will always be flukes and always be flawed families that even the easiest dog is not suited for. That said, a generally chill, active for fun but calm for down time, able to alert but not bite first ask later, able to play but not obsessive, attentive but not upyourbutt, etc.

    I work with both the dogs and their owners. I don't have the dumped dogs I have the average person asking for the average dog. I can encourage sports but most of them say "I just want the average (normal by some) dog. Sits when I ask, waits, doesn't bite, walks nicely and plays ball." So, I get paid daily to try and encourage this average idea on these dogs, I can say with confidence some breeds are far easier to mold into this "type" than others.

    We'll eventually have to agree to disagree, our positions in the dog community are bound to skew our take on this discussion.
     
  15. DISCLAIMER: I did not read anything other than the first couple of posts.

    Different breeds will exhibit different traits, which will sometimes require completely different training methods and create a completely different living experience. A dog is not a dog is not a dog, not if you want the potential owner to maintain their happiness and sanity. However, that being said, I do have to roll my eyes when certain breeds are made out to be mythical creatures.
     
  16. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    That was much clearer and more concise than my post, but what I meant to say.

    Of course all breeds aren't for anyone. "Making it work" doesn't mean it is ideal.
     
  17. StillandSilent

    StillandSilent New Member

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    When I hear this (and I do hear it all the time at the daycare) it usually doesn't mean 'this dogs breed traits can make them difficult for some people to own'. It usually means 'I don't have the time/inclination to train my dog to be a good companion, so I'm just going to blame it on the breed'. Some gems

    Chihuahuas/Dachsunds/Bostons can't be housetrained. Ever. They aren't like other dogs
    Pugs can not run, even in cool weather. They aren't like other dogs
    You can not clip a Dachsunds nails without getting bitten. They have sensitive feet and aren't like other dogs.
    A Basset hound can not live in the house due to it's odor. They aren't like other dogs.
    A Pit bull has locking jaws/will turn on you/eats babies for fun. They aren't like other dogs.
    Sighthounds will break their legs if you let them play with the other dogs. They aren't like other dogs.
    English Bulldogs will all but vaporize the minute the sun hits them, even if it's only 55 degrees out. They aren't like other dogs.
    You can't live with a coydog, they will climb on the fridge/dance on top of 10ft kennels/snatch birds from midair and start randomly singing with the ambulances at work. Oh, wait.....;)
     
  18. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    The only problem here is you are going off of the 'average' home in your area. In my area the average home is a working/active farm or ranch. Where I live there isn't very many neighborhoods. Sure there are some houses kinda close together, and by close together I mean you can see them from some parts of your property. Neighborhood here means 'people who live on the same county road and on quite a few of them you can got pretty far without seeing another house.

    Most of my friends when looking for a dog are looking for ones that are going to be with them all day out and about on the property, they will never see other dogs aside from visits to the vets, and because of the liability it's turned into for farmers and ranchers will probably only be around family and close friends who are regular visitors.

    So yes most of them DO need/want intelligent dogs that are go go go all day. I think most of my friends are able to provide a perfect home to BC. Of course there are some that can't so I wouldn't advise it. But for the majority of my friends who are living the life that you yourself described as what BC are breed for I don't have any doubt most of them could handle and live happily with a BC.


    Well obviously they aren't really BC. Those aren't happy living with 'norms'.
     
  19. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    This, so much!!!

    I feel like training & spending time in dog sports/with working dogs really makes the difference GLARINGLY obvious. I breathe a sigh of relief when I'm grooming or training a nice, average type of dog... it is amazing, the difference in working with them. But that doesn't mean "beyond average" dogs are a pain, I admire them so much, but they definitely take special care and a lot more effort to work with. Which MOST people are not willing to put fourth. Chazhound is not most people! Most people want to walk their dogs once a week and let them out in the yard a few times a day and have a happy, calm dog from no more than that.


    Umm... did I say that I ONLY have respect for people with difficult breeds? Nope not even. I love seeing a healthy, well trained, athletic, happy dog of any breed. But people with an easy going, friendly, average breed generally don't NEED to pure fourth immense amounts of effort and work to raise a balanced dog. Some one who buys a Fila puppy absolutely NEEDS to live & breathe that breed to raise a correct, balanced dog. And don't be offended, I wasn't addressing you with that comment whatsoever.

    I feel like people get too offended by the word "average". We're still talking about DOGS. They are great, diverse, amazing companions. There's just an extreme that some breeds take which isn't normal for most breeds. Like there are "eccentric" people.
     
  20. JacksonsMom

    JacksonsMom Active Member

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    THIS!

    This is what I was personally getting at.
     

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