Can I get your feedback on this site

Toolalla Kennels

I've started looking around for a coolie breeder, now this isn't an ANKC registered breed so there is no standard really. Though these breeders have chosen thier own "standard" to work towards over the last few decades. They say they have been working towards dark merle colourign to avoid blindness/deafness in pups. Also a short coat and long legs to avoid grass seeds stuck in fur and allow them to travel further easier.
Also, they are working lines.
I can't see anything on health testing but it seems they choose to breed for ability to work more than anything.

You guys are much better at sussing these things out than me lol.
But ofcourse I will be contacting them, viewing parents etc etc before making any decisions.

I also like that on their site they encourage you to look around at different breeders and have a page specially dedicated to whether or not the coolie is right for you.

They kill puppies that are born white......."We’ve worked diligently and successfully to eliminate this problem from our coolies. Any pup that presented too much white was promptly destroyed.

Not surprisingly, we’ve copped a lot of flack for destroying puppies that weren’t up to standard. Some people believe that no coolie should ever be killed. But because of our tough stance and strict set of requirements, we can proudly say we haven’t bred a white pup (or one with any abnormalities) in over 6 years."

And no where can I find any health testing, guarantees, etc

i know, that kinda irked me about killing the white pups.
I suppose this is mainly to provide to the working dog community.

This is hard.

That right there would be enough for me to stay away from them :yikes:

beginning to look into the coolie community, this appears pretty commonplace. which in my eyes, I still don't see as aceptable.

Its also seems like the coolie is a breed lacking a lot of standard due to breeders not agreeing with each other or downright bagging each other out. This IS harder than i thought it would be, bloody hell.

I have another couple fo breeders i will look into aswell

They cull the old way, that's hardcore. Now I don't think it is morally right...but what is the market for this breed for "pets" and do they make suitable housepets? If they were kept grown out and s/n who'd be there to take them...if there's a legitimate demand and the breed is actually suitable...then they IMO are going much too far.

Now having said that I will also say this...today...breeders spend thousands trying to save neonatal puppies...some of those puppies may even grown to the best and shown and bred....but the question is...is that lack of vitality right at birth....hinting at some other flaw that is then passed along? Is saving them all at every expense...good for the breed? Hard questions!

IMO breeding is a constant dance between doing what is right for you...what is right for the breed...and what is right in the eyes of the judgemental public.

a agree HbH, i love your posts. I understand them doing it, but its hard for me to comprehend myself.
Not a lot of people know this breed exists, and a lot of the people that do know little about this. I feel a coolie in the wrong hands could find itself in a much worse place than if destroyed young.
even as i write that, like i said, its hard to comprehend. I'm still trying to work all this out

I gotta admit -- I don't think I could buy from a breeder that did that. One thing I appreciate in breeders is a basic love of their dogs, and a willingness to provide a home for any of them which, for whatever reason (1) aren't breed standard, (2) don't sell, and (3) don't fit well with their new homes. Killing them because of physical characteristics just doesn't seem quite right.

It may be that white pups are also deaf and blind, because that's common in merle breeds. But they said they kill pups that presented "too much white." Oy.

I have a major problem with much coolie breeding for this reason. The ONLY reason this happens is merle x merle breedings. If the fanciers would stop turning their noses at solid coolies (which do happen but are considered 'throwbacks' which is genetically ridiculous) they could completely avoid these problems.

Why is the merle COLOR so important in a WORKING breed?

There was a thread I started on this a while back, lemme see if I can come up with it.

ETA: here's what I got from another Coolie breeder about that site. Bold is her answers. Others are my questions:

Anyways, not saying this is the end all be all, but this is what I have heard after the whole incident at the Coolie forum. Apparently people thought I was another poster on a Coolie forum which I have NO clue where they got that idea. LOL

I can PM you who said this if you want the link, etc, but I don't want to bring in names... again. xD

Bottom line is, it's IMPOSSIBLE to breed 100% merles as merles are heterozygous. Any breeder that claims that is not telling the complete truth. You can get homozygous double merles with little white markings which are fine, but there is always that risk of producing a lethal white when crossing two merles. It seems too risky for my tastes and I know most people in other merle breeds do not agree with taking the risk. (though double dapples seem to be gaining popularity in dachshunds and I know of a few double merle shelties)

Great post Laurelin.. That never even crossed my mind. I quit reading as soon as I heard they killed all white pups at birth. If you can't find homes for deaf dogs..don't breed where there is a chance of deaf dogs!

That's my thoughts too. If you're going to risk breeding where you know the potential to produce deaf or blind (or both!) pups is there then you had better be sure you can take care of those pups and find them proper homes or keep them yourself. There is no need to make a cross like that as there are other alternatives available. If you decide to undergo it, then you should take full responsibility for your actions.

Koolie Rescue:

http://www.koolie-tjukurpa-kennels.0catch.com/Koolie Rescue.htm

http://www.koolie-tjukurpa-kennels.0catch.com/



KOOLIE ADOPTION
Ken & Trudy Dive
Springwood NSW 2777
Ph: 02 47511007 Email:[email protected]

Laurelin posted everything I was going to say. I did some looking into Coolies for a while myself. There is a US breeder who has posted on this board a few times before (Yata Hae, who is quoted in the earlier post), and who was very nice in responding to my emails about their dogs.

I don't think there is every any justification for breeding merle to merle, as they do. I would never stand by a breeder who culled 25% of their puppies for a problem that they produced.

I agree, it's horrible

Also, just to come back to your first post about health testing and dogs being bred to work... well, I think it's even more important that health testing is done when a dog is going to have to work.

I found the link!

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46295&page=2

see, this is why i come to you guys. I need your grouding before i go "but its pretty" because I know what I'm like

The double merle thing also worried me, all the stuff I've read about not putting merle over merle makes sense and I'd rather go with a breeder that puts extra care on not allowing deaf/blind pups to be born.

i am definetly looking into a rescue, but at one stage I would love a dog that I know its lines and see its parents. And knowing me there is always the possibility of being sucked in by a deaf pup. As long as i could change my training technique slightly and have the dog focus a lot, it is still capable or anything.

so thats that breeder crossed off.

:lol-sign: I have a couple of friends whose job it is to beat me over the head when I get like that. It's hard not to just fall in love right away.

I have a question about the breed, why do some people spell it koolie and other times it is coolie?