Nancy Grace has gone too far

6. Ignorant Shelter Workers & Rescuers

We give shelter and rescue workers big snaps for the great job they do on a daily basis. That said - they are some bad apples in this bunch. These people are marked by their staggering ignorance, leaving the rest of the dog world stammering in surprise.

Statements from these so-called "professionals" include, "We don't adopt out Pitbulls - they have locking jaws", and "We don't adopt out Rotties or Dobermans - they're aggressive". Better yet, they hide a dog's health or behavioral history, thinking that all dogs can be saved, from adopters who may be in for a big surprise. Someone needs to teach this breed a lesson - and quick.

5. Ignorant Dog Fanciers

Nose and tail always in the air with, "Breed restrictions don't really apply to me - I own a PUREBRED dog". Oh, really ? Maybe you'd like to share you magical powers with the rest of us....or better yet ............

4. Arrogant Dog Fanciers

Not only are nose and tail always in the air, but his type will even dis their fellow dog fanciers with, "it's not my breed". Ain't that special?

Numbers 4 and 5 do a disservice to the many hardworking, ethical home breeders who care deeply about their dogs and the welfare of dogs in general.

3. Irresponsible News Media

They attack -unprovoked, when you least expect it. Out of the blue, and really just when those ratings are starting to take a dive. These media outlets target large working breeds, they thrive on fear.

Yeah - I'm talking to you, Kathryn McIntyre of the Commerce City Journal for your lack of editorial integrity for publishing the street addresses of pitbull owners. Sex offenders have more privacy rights than dog owners.

And yeah - I'm talking to you all you local metro broadcast news outlets, like CBS Channel 2 News in New York that that invariably portray "dangerous" dogs as Pitbulls or Rottweilers. Nor should we visually support dangerous dog news stories with pictures of Pitbulls and Rottweilers, by default - like the one shown here from the CBS News site:

And yeah, I'm talking to you, for any print or web media that shows that same doctored photo of a snarling pitbull with digitally elongated teeth.

This ain't news - it's titillating info-tainment designed to spike fear, ad circ, and ratings at the same time.

It's time to run these out-of-control puppies back thru the basics - you know, fair and balanced reporting, media ethics.

2. Greedy Insurers

These insurers aren't dogs - they're pigs. And who's to stop them when...........

- they can chow down of easy profits on the backs of good dog owners by denying, limiting or eliminating coverage of dog owners in 37 states?
- they stuff so much of their piggy bank bucks into the pockets of politicians?

1. Opportunistic Politicians

These dogs will whine - they beg - they'll do anything for attention - and money - especially from those fat cats in the insurance lobby who ensure obedience with juicy campaign donations. These politicians breed fear, thrive on ignorance and count on apathy. Prime examples are :

Michael Bryant - Ontario's infamous "Puppykiller" for the province's sick and twisted breed ban. One must "prove" that a dog isn't a pitbull and the law requires all pitbull type puppies be shipped out of the province, sent to reseach facilities or euthanized.

Jackie Speier of California, AKA "The Breed Exterminator" , and notable author of SB 861, which is having a chilling effect on dog ownership in California

Paul Wesslehoft of Oklahoma - whose bill to ban certain breeds just went down in flames in the state legislature there.

Molly Markert of Aurora, Colorado's Town Council - that smiling Miss Prim (we hear she smirked to the audience when the breed ban passed) - and noted dog-hater, a leader in passing Aurora's 12 breed dog ban

I've got a message for you - kick these headline grabbing, political opportunists of ANY political persuasian to the curb in the next local or state elections.

I'll tell you the most dangerous breeds - write these down!

#1 All Time Dangerous Breed:

The #1 most dangerous breed are media outlets that deliberately breed fear, spreading myths and lies about dog breeds and canine behavior through irresponsible reporting and reinforcement of undeserved and negative breed stereotypes

What You Can Do About It:

- Call up the paper, the TV station or email the website and complain about the biased dog story
- Ask for the Editor, Sales Manager and/or Program Director
- Tell them you won't read, watch or visit
- Tell then you won't patronize their advertisers until they stop their biased coverage
- Tell them they have the opportunity to spread knowledge, not fear
- Tell them My Dog Votes!

#2 All Time Dangerous Breed:

The #2 most dangerous breeds are the local and state politicians that feed on the fear created by the irresponsible media, and the public's ignorance. They are greedy for the headlines, campaign dough and do the bidding of the private sector instead of truly advocating for the public health, safety and welfare. They pass breed bans , weight or size restrictions, public space bans, and mandatory microchip laws, and other anti-dog legislation limiting the rights of responsible tax-paying citizens rather than deal with their criminal and social problems.

What You Can Do About It:

- Call or write the offending local of state elected official and complain about the breed ban or other anti-dog legislation
- Tell them you want the ban overturned in favor of breed-neutral legislation
- Tell them you want any other anti-dog legislation stopped or overturned
- Tell them you will vote them out in the next election
- Tell them you will vote out any politician that supported the ban
- Tell them you will rally every dog owner in town against them
- Tell them they have the opportunity to educate instead of legislate
- Tell them My Dog Votes!

#3 All Time Dangerous Breed:

The #3 most dangerous breeds are the apathetic dog owners who say nothing, or do nothing because they think they cannot affect change, or fight the sytem, or it doesn't affect them directly. Or maybe they just don't care - or won't care - that is - until they come for their dog.

What You Can Do About It:

- Tell all of your friends, neighbors, relatives and associates, regardless of whether or not they own a dog about the breed ban or other anti-dog legislation
- Tell them they must support their fellow dog owners, friends, and neighbors
- Tell them if we don't stand together now, we all fall
- Tell them they have the opportunity to unite the community, not divide the community
- Tell them to do it for their dog
- Tell them My Dog Votes!

Now get off your butts and go do it."

I will ask the question that I asked before on this thread. When do you punsih the owner, after the dog has already attacked someone?

Travel-The problem is GSDs are already on the list. They are banned but Mr. Bob doesnt seem to want to listen to me and realize that his little pup might be banned soon...Some people just dont get it.

And Bob-At our shelter, a pit bull got it's EAR bitten off by a LAB. Perhaps the guy who looks like he was in a "gang movie" or whatever is actually a nice guy with a nice dog and people just look at them and think what you think. Ever heard you shouldnt judge a book by it's cover. JUST by him taking his dog for a walk in the park I would think he probably cares about his dog. You are awful biased but now I understand it isnt just against a breed of dog.

If you take one thing from what I said dont judge a book by it's cover. I have already told story about a Pom being killed by other small breed dogs (Yorkie, SHih Tzu). The pit bull got it's ear bit off by a lab mix. I posted a story about a pom who attacked a pit bull. There is another story about a mastiff who was killing a child (the child who lived in the home) and guess what? The pit bull attacked the MASTIFF to try to get it off of the child. There is another story about a lab who mauled a pit bull.

Pit bulls get abused something awful. Most of them dont have responsible owners and that is the problem not their breed. Again ban pit bulls and the bad owners will find another breed to ruin...Will it be your breed??

Sorry that other post was so long I found it intersting and suited to the situation.



If you give someone life without parole for letting their aggressive dog attack someone, that sends a message. Sure it may be harsh but I am all for it.

Uh . . . yes. Just like we punish murders after they've happened, or child abuse. We don't say, "Hmm, you were abused as a child . . . That means you're more likely to become a child abuser yourself. Okay, punk, you're going to jail!" Yes, jailing everyone who'd been abused would save some other kids from being abused. It would also be unlawful and unfair.

Wouldn't your theory allow for the bite percentage to correlate exactly against the abuse percentage? More dogs = more abuse.

I've seen a lot of obvious pit mixes labelled as 'lab mix' or 'Dalmation mix' on the internet and in shelters. It's a very common way for shelters and owners to try to avoid the stigma attached to the pit bull. I did not say that these dogs were neccessarily pit bulls, but I find it strange that you'd seize on the description of them as mixes as a great argument that people are wrong about pit bulls. It's very likely that these particular dogs were pit bull mixes.

You have a right to your opinion, of course, but you might phrase it more politely. In my opinion, people who talk the way you do about pit bulls are the worst possible threat to dogs.

It does end, though. There are a limited number of breeds and types that can do massive damage in a brief time during an attack. Pretending that if we let them take pit bulls, next thing you know Shelties are taking down grown men on the street is risible.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. The only problem is getting to that point. Call the police over a problem with a dog, or try to file a complaint, and unless the situation is a massive, bloody, fatal attack caught on video and involving a crippled child and six nuns, you will get treated like a weirdo who hates mom, the flag and our beloved animal companions. The only people I know who have been able to deal effectively with aggressive dogs and bad owners live in rural areas where, eventually, guns were used on the attacking dogs. If you live in the city or the suburbs, forget it. Your only recourse is a criminal justice system that dismisses animal complaints as petty, and a justice system that tends to act conservatively when asked to violate the precious property rights of whatever wackjob owns the vicious dog in question.

I simply don't believe we'll ever enforce dog laws effectively. Apart from the
financial costs of having enough trained and impartial ACOs in every community, there's a huge cultural bias against it. We love dogs, they're our friends, and they don't hurt us. That's the bias keeping the enforcement low. And while that exists, I think limiting the most dangerous breeds is the only way to keep a lid on the problem. Yeah, it's unfair to these breeds. But it's unfair to everyone else to adopt this 'any dog' attitude, when in reality it's not any dog.

But what about the families who lost a loved one due to a dog attack by another breed? Did that person's life matter less? It seems so, as that person wasn't killed by an APBT. Last year, an 80 something year old woman was pulled from her wheelchair by a black Lab & a Dachshund (a standard) & killed. It was originally reported as a fatal mauling by a Rottwieler & Pit Bull but then the truth came out. Unfortunately, when the truth was discovered, then we no longer heard anyhting about the woman, we didn't hear any family members speaking out about how they lost a beloved family member in a horrible, tragedy, etc. The whole incident disappeared from view b/c a "pit bull" no longer did it therefore it wasn't newsworthy.

45 breeds have killed people. Mutts have killed people. Yet it seems people only want to ban "pit bulls" & "pit bull" type dogs.

And just for example, look how well breed bans work. In a county in FL where "pit bulls" are banned, two people were killed in one month by their dogs. Wow, getting rid of "pit bulls" sure did make that county safe. And look at Ontario? Ever since banning "pit bulls", statistics show that dog bites & dog attacks are increasing! Explain that please.

And Bob, also think about this. There are still many people who shouldn't own a dog much less a "pit bull" but they do & yet nothing bad has happened. I think it's safe to say that "pit bulls" (APBTs, ASTs, SBTs, BTs, ABs, & any mix) are fighting with Labradors for the most popular dogs out there.

And not only that, take a look at how many stories were oringally reported as "VICIOUS PIT BULL ATTACKS YET AGAIN!" only once an investigation was underway, it wasn't a "pit bull" at all. But "pit bulls" get headlines, boxer mixes do not.

Why shouldn't we?

Do you go about screaming "Ban All Cars!" everytime someone is killed in a vehicle accident? I bet not. In fact, I bet you still get into your car every day & would be highly pissed if the government stormed into your home & took your car away for no reasons b/c hey, your car wasn't ever involved in an accident that killed someone.

And since we are talking about cars, statistics show that red vehicles are involved in more accidents every year including fatal ones. So should we get rid of the red vehicles? Sure, why not. How dare someone defend their red sportscar that has never been in a wreck, b/c after all, statistics are solid proof. But then what? Surprise, suprise, a new color becomes the most common color car involved in accidents.

I do hear what you are saying. And I don't think anyone here is saying that bad dogs don't exist. BUT, dogs don't just "turn" or attack with no warning. There is always a warning given, however, most people with their turn-the-head mentality choose to ignore it/them, & then when something does happen, it's always "out of the blue."

And if you don't like my/our defending these dogs, too bad. I'll protect my dogs until my own death.

Just out of curiosity, do you even read? Do you research "dog attacks" on the internet? Or do you only read about the ones with "Pit Bull" in the headline? Because there have been many, many, many, many more "other" dog attacks this year than "pit bull" dog attacks. And not just that, many of those "pit bull" attacks were found to be boxer mixes, bulldog mixes, & just regular old mutts.

NO ONE here is defending these particular 4 dogs over the child. I feel absolutely awful for what happened to that child. And personally, I hold the dad to blame & I think he should rot in jail for what HE was ultimately responsible for--his child's safety. However, I don't like that people who die from "pit bulls" lives are held higher up that children/adults who are killed by other breeds. Hell, those stories are hardly ever mentioned & those families get no justice...they don't get the chance to participate in a "Ban the GSD" or "Ban the Yorkie" or "Ban the Mutts" campaign. They are basically told "Sorry about what happened. It's just a shame your child wasn't killed by a pit bull because then we'd put his story in the newspaper & try to hold the dog/owner accountable for what happened. But good luck with your next child." And this is utter bullshit.

Would you mind sharing the source of these statistics?

As I mentioned in another post, which apparently you didn't read, the newest statistics thate were available for this discussion on dog attacks had the frequency for Pit Bull attacks at around twice the number of the next dog which was by the way, a Rottweiler. I didn't add up the total on the list, but I would bet that the top 2 had between 30-50% of the top 10.

If you really want to know , contact Headline Prime and ask them.....

[QUOTEWait just one second. It's not all of our beloved mutts that are the problem. It's the bulldog and mastiff mixes.][/QUOTE]

You just nearly made me laugh & fall outta my chair! You must be super cool to be psychic to know that when someone says "A mutt attacked..." you know automatically that the "mutt" in quesiton is a "pit bull" or mix thereof. Wow. And the fact that you can correctly identify a 'pit bull" is astonishing......considering there are so many breeds included & all look very different to the TRAINED eye. So here's a scenario for you: Not only am I an avid APBT owner/fan, but I'm also a vet tech. One day, a guy brought in a gorgeous 60lb, short haired, muscular, "blocky" headed dog with a shiny black coat. Under your "expertise", that dog would've been a "pit bull". To many unkowledgable people at the clinic, that is also what they thought. Boy were they surprised to find out it was a Labrador/Boxer mix. Yep you heard me. Not one "pit bull" went into the making of that dog....just a Ducks Unlimited black Labrador Retreiver & the neighbor's AKC Boxer showdog. Unfortunately for that dog & it's owner, you just "killed" it with your own uneducated justice.

Hence my problem. You don't know nor do you care enough to know yet you have no problem going around & spouting off at the mouth what you were told...even if what you were told is highly inaccurate & possibly false. Don't you see a problem there?

Again, did you just read these statistics from one site? Or did you actually do any research into them yourself? And can you tell me where you got this proof at?

What is your opinion of massive damage? Is it having your achilles tendon ripped out of your heel by a JRT/Chihuahua mix in just under 2 minutes? The child was 3 years old & now is 10 & will always walk with a limp. He had to undergo 3 surgeries so far.

Or what about the 28 stitches I received from a 100lb Labrador & the muscle & ligament damage that I had? How about the fact that my left forearm has a sligh concave appearance b/c they had to cut out some damagad muscle? Do I & my injury not count?

ANY & EVERY breed & mixed breed of dog can do "massive" damage. IMO, "massive" damage is relative to the individual attack & what that victim had to go through & experience as a result of the attack. For example, my neighbor's 2 year old son had approx. 37 stitches in his face, scalp, & neck area from their grandparents Cocker Spaniel (which they still own btw). Another: one of the vet techs I used to work with got bit on her thumb by a Miniature Pinscher. She only had to have 2 stitches, but she had/has resulting nerve & tendon/ligament damage & that forced her to change careers as she doesn't have use of that digit anymore. But since it was only a small bite in comparison, is this "massive" damage in your opinion? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to figure out what your guidelines are for "massive" damage.

And here's to all of you:


However, I will say that as a DOG owner, I NEVER ever ever ever ever leave my son alone in a room with a dog even if it's to dart around the corner to turn the stove off. I ALWAYS either take my son with me, or make the dog come with me. And it's not because my dogs are APBTs, but because they are dogs. And all it takes for something to happen, is to be "gone a few seconds". And this goes for cats as well. Cats bite children all the time & there have also been many recorded deaths of cats suffocating infants & young toddlers. To leave ANY child alone in a room with ANY animal is plain negligent & lazy on the parent's part....Period.

I'll be damned if ANYONE is going to take MY breed away just because of a few idiots. I will not tolerate BSL reaching any further, because no matter how many of you try to edge away from this fact, your breed will be on a list soon enough, if it is a medium to large breed with an ounce of jaw power. It's not a guess, it's fact.

Look over the breeds that have been banned. Do you have any idea what breeds they are? Do you know that SAINT BERNARDS have been banned in places? MANY MANY LGD breeds have also been banned. Do you realy think it is fair for dogs that have done no wrong to be judged by people who are so ignorant, they can't see PAST the media they feed off of? Obviously, people with these pro-BSL views are victims of mass media, because it works on changing your opinion to reach a goal. It's too bad that it's been reached in so many places, and that now, responsible people and their family pets are being blamed.

You can say all you want about Pit Bull Terriers, or any 'pit bull' breed, hell, you can even talk about MY breeds if you want. I DONT CARE! YOUR opinion is not worthy of being considered when you've not met very many representatives of the breed, or good representatives. No breed is made up of dogs in which EVERY SINGLE ONE is a terrible dog, it's just not possible. If this were people being talked about, this would be nothing short of racism, and that's what it is now as well...breed racism. And I'm sure I'm not alone, in that us "dangerous breed owners" are sick and tired of being branded, and having our dogs labeled as dangerous, or killers, or unsafe for the community.

Get out of the magazines and the television for a minute, and venture into the real world, where these dogs are kept as loving companions, or hard working animals, and are treated amazingly, instead of viewing them as vicious killers with only one mission in their lives.

Great post.

Not another debate thread on APBTs.!!!

I'm going to stop now, because it's getting ugly and because I don't have the time to argue further. I would like to say that while I understand the source of the strong emotions I see here, I very much dislike the tone of violent moral righteousness I'm seeing from some people here who either own pit bulls or feel compelled to defend them. It's ugly, it's bullying and it's wrong. There is a lot of room to argue this issue; it's not a simple choice between good and evil.