Doodles (and how Labradoodles are different)

As the owner of a Labradoodle (and constantly being criticized for it), I found it necessary to st art this topic. I know this is going to be controversial...but PLEASE try to keep it friendly

As many of you have made clear in several different threads, you think that "designer dogs" are wrong. On some level, I agree with you. Dogs shouldn't be bred just because they look cute, especially when they are just mutts, and there are many mutts in shelters that need homes. But what I strongly disagree with is your argument (by "your", I mean folks who can't deal with the doodles!) that these dogs are "bred for no purpose". I don't know about all of you- but my dog was bred to be my pet. To me, that is a very important purpose.

But on to the purpose of this thread- labradoodles vs. other doodles. While I can understand why you are purely against any doodle, I think the labradoodle is different. It was "bred for a purpose"- as a seeing eye dog in Australia. (The Labradoodle Association of Australia)

How do you think a Lab was created? How do you think any type of dog was created? Through crossbreeding. Many of the popular purebred dogs are developing health problems from all the interbreeding among themselves. Most vets will tell you that a mixed breed is actually more likely to have less health problems than a purebred.

Well after all this, I'm sure you have at least more argument: how people are buying these designer dogs instead of shelter dogs. How would you feel if, when you purchased YOUR purebred dog from a breeder, you were criticized from not getting the dog from a shelter? That's how I feel when I get told that I should have gotten a shelter mix instead of the labradoodle I got from a breeder (who, by the way, I made sure is reputable).

The fact of the matter is, while I do feel sorry for mutts and purebreds stuck in shelters, I have 3 young children and I just can't take the risk with a shelter dog. I am aware of the fact that many of them are only put in shelters because their owners couldn't take care of them, and that the dogs are wonderful. But there is a chance that the dog has been abused in the past- and with children, this is a risk that I'm not willing to take. I'm sure many of you feel the same way. So whether or not I was buying a purebred or a labradoodle, I would be more comfortable getting my dog from a breeder.

So why do people constantly criticize designer dog owners? Is it because many of the owners are not educated and buy from BYBs? I'm sure that purebred dog owners also make this mistake, but I don't see them being picked on for it. It is certainly important to buy from a reputable breeder, but there are bad breeders for both designer dogs and purebreds. Not all designer dog breeders are bad.

I find it strange how so many of you care that "doodles" are becoming more popular. Why do you care so much about an owner loving their "designer dog" just as much as you love your purebred?

The Austrailian Labradoodle that was bred for being a seeing eye dog is totally different than people throwing a lab or whatever breed you chose and a poodle together and calling them a labradoodle or any other kind of doodle just for the hell of it....

opcorn:

I totally support breeding doodles as service dogs. I don'';t support breeding doodles for pets. That''s like me saying i support anyone who breeds Sibes for pets. I deffinately don;t.

I have no problem with a dog for what it is...

and just so you know, there is so much more to making a purebred dog then like jess said throwing a lab and poodle together and let them have puppies. To make a purebred it would take many of years of hard work and breeding the SAME breed together, not two different breeds the whole time...

Also, there is no such thing as a reputable mutt breeder...

There are over 700 dog breeds in the world...plenty of them would make awesome pets. So why go BUY a mutt when you could RESCUE one? Or BUY a purebred from a reputable breeder? Or RESCUE a purebred?? It doesn't make sense.

Which didn't work - the whole plan failed, because they do shed.

Labs were created for an important purpose - to help catch food, to keep their families alive. And irresponsible breeders are the ones who inbreed, not the reputable breeders.

If someone purchased a purebred for a puppy mill, I certainly would disagree with their choice. If they had a good reason to purchase from a REPUTABLE breeder, I would have no problem.

I hear this one all the time. You can always ask the shelter where the dog came from, and what it's past is. You can always evaluate the dog. Just because a dog is from a breeder does not mean that does is going to turn out well.

I disagree with not all designer dog breeders being irresponsible; they are irresponsible, because they breed a dog for no purpose other than to be a thing.

No one is upset that people love their designer "breeds," we hate the fact that instead of rescuing the same mix, they buy one from a breeder, and most times, a very irresponsible, greedy breeder.

And just becaus someone is against designer dog breeding does not mean they only like purebreds, or they only own purebreds.

Many breeds make wonderful pets and to deny the fact that reputable breeders of dogs originally designed to be working dogs are not breeding for pet temperment is just ingnoring the truth. The world is changing, the dog population is exploding..sadly..but the majority of people buy a dog to be a family pet. Not really a matter of do we agree or not, it's a fact. The horrible result of course is shelters filled with mutts and purebred dogs and breed rescues poping up like crazy ..

While i agree with everything you have said and also that an irresponsible Breeder is in fact irresponsible...............I got Bailey from a BYB (I was naive to dog breeding at the time) and he isn't a "Designer dog"........I don't and never would regard my dog (or any other dog) as a thing.........He is (and designer dogs) are still dogs

Doodley you took the words right from my mouth Thank You!

My whole problem with doodles (and purebreds from BYBs) is the lack of health testing. I check various doodle sites when I run across them and they often talk about the coat and color, but I've yet to see one who does OFA and CERF. Both Poodles and Labradors have genetic hip and eye problems in their breed, so breeding them together will mean the pups could develop problems as well. (It is NOT true that mixing breeds automatically makes them immune to genetic disorders).

Colliewog- right on!

That's what drives me insane about it too. If the animals have contracts, are being bred to some sort of objective standard, and are appropriately health-tested, then who am I to tell them what they're doing is wrong? My concern is only for the health of the animals. If Australian Labradoodle breeders are doing OFA and CERF, and working at making Labradoodles a legitimate breed, not just continuing F1 crosses as a selling point (which I see the majority of American breeders doing), then power to them.

Selling the dogs on claims such as "hybrid vigor" (which doesn't exist in animals that aren't HYBRIDS- and ESPECIALLY not in animals that are F1 crosses), or the fact that they are all "no shed" (they simply aren't), is false advertising, pure and simple. It's mind-boggling the number of Labradoodle breeders in the US I've seen state that "they don't need OFA and CERF, because Labradoodles aren't purebred, and don't have all those genetic problems."

WHAT??

And unfortunately, people who don't know better, who trust the breeder to be telling them the truth, and are reading the same information on doodle website after doodle website fall for it. And then their "hypoallergenic" dog sheds it's puppy coat, and lo and behold, someone's allergies start acting up, and the dog is sent to a shelter. (I've yet to see an American Labradoodle site list that dogs that don't work out are to be returned to the breeder).

And so you have to wonder...if the dogs aren't being shown, if health-testing isn't occuring...why do they cost so much? Reputable purebred breeders spend a fortune on entry fees, on driving to shows, on the litany of tests that they put breeding stock through...it all adds up, and an expensive price helps to recoop *some* of that. And yet I've seen un-tested Labradoodles go for THOUSANDS more than show prospects from BIS winning (health-tested) lines! WHY?

If the Australian Labradoodle breeders and/or some American breeders are testing these dogs, have airtight contracts (with dog-return and S/N policies), and aren't selling them under false claims- then ABSOLUTELY, I'd love to see them keep breeding.

Another thing that bothers me- on so many of the websites I see- they say absolutely NOTHING bad about the dogs. That is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what you'll find in reputable purebred breeders- most go to great lengths to explain why "breed x" makes a poor choice for the majority of the general public. We do our best to discourage people from obtaining the breed, unless we are SURE they can handle it. And that's how it should be for ANY breed (or intentional cross).

Ok...would someone PLEASE tell me exactly what a BYB is? I've decided in my mind, but am thinking I am wrong...BTW, Kato was a Wal-Mart special. He's my best behaved and most willing to obey. He's a border collie mix...not sure what dad was, but his characteristics are that of a bc. Sorry I got off topic...again.

I agree with Doodley & Loveofanimals. They both took the words right out of my mouth. I have a Silkshire Terrier (Silky Terrier/Yorkie) and I love her to death. I don't agree with IRRESPONSIBLE breeding, but there are responsible purebred, and mixed-breed breeders. Like Doodley said, all dog breeds came from crossbreeding. Why not create a new breed that may be healthier than the standard breed...? My silkshire was specifically (and responsibly) bred to be the size of a Yorkie, while retaining the hardiness of a Silky so that people with young kids, can have a dog, and not worry about it getting hurt, and be within the limits of most rent-houses, or appartments. They are wonderful all around dogs, and I love my little Lucy.

TAC_1, a BYB is a Back Yard Breeder. Basically someone who breeds soley for profit. But if anyone knows as well as I do, a responsible breeder makes little-NO profit, and only breeds out of a love for the dogs, and the breed.

Ok "doodle" (every time I hear that or a mix with doodle in it's name I think of the doodle bears) lovers - show me a good breeder. Dixie's mom, care to share the name of the breeder/kennel you got your dog from? I would love to look into them. It's not that I don't like the dogs, it's the people behind them.

I know a BYB who doesn't make a profit - and if she does it's very, very little.

Hey Tac 1-

BYB stands for "backyard breeder." It's a term that covers a broad range of people with irresponsible breeding practices, and really has nothing to do with WHERE the dogs are raised. (We really prefer that dogs are raised in a home, rather than kennel situation).

A backyard breeder is generally someone with very little knowledge of what responsible breeding entails. They figure it begins and ends with finding two dogs you like, breeding them, and waiting for puppies.

Their reasons for breeding generally range from "I'd like to make a little extra money," to "I wanted my children to see the miracle of life," "I love Brandy and she's really cute, and I want a puppy just like her." You get the picture.

These are all pretty pathetic excuses for bringing new lives into the world, especially when those lives could be compromised by genetic health problems.

Whenever ANYONE breeds they should be doing genetic health testing. OFA, CERF, PennHIP, are the minimum. In breeds where there are other common genetic problems (for example, deafness in ACDs), tests should be run to protect against those as well. Most BYBs don't do said tests. A lot of the time it's because they don't even know such tests (or genetic problems) even exist. But this isn't an excuse. Anything worth doing is worth doing right, and their are plenty of first time breeders who ARE doing it right. They have mentors who SHOW them what to do. They study for ages. They know their breed and their dogs' lineage.

The information and ability to do it right is avaliable to ANYONE, especially with the advantage that the internet provides. Ignorance is simply not an excuse, and yet we see it used ALL the time.

When you're playing God with lives (which is essentially what breeding is), you cannot afford to be callous OR clueless.

Hope this helped!

Wow tempura! Thanks so much for the wealth of info. I'm glad I asked...my assumption was wrong, lol. Now I'll understand a lot of the threads! Again, thank you!!

No problem!

It can be mind-boggling to stumble in on threads with all of these acronyms- especially when one little word contains SO many connotations.

Glad I could shed some light on the situation!

^ good post