The Tulip Thread

So I decided that I'd start putting all my woes/updates/(hopefully!) victories related to my new gal in one thread, instead of clogging up the big thread.

So. Today was a tough day, as every day has been since she got here. I did get a few caribiners and I trussed up the crate further with moving cords, so she's really locked in there.

She is doing fantastic health-wise. Stool completely normal, peeing outside, she seems fit as a fiddle and is doing well transitioning to the food I have Astro on at the moment (big leftover bag of TOTW Pacific Stream). Seems to have a hardy stomach given all the changes and stress going on.

I decided to name her Tulip. Don't ask me why, it just fits her.

She is so smart it sort of alarms me. I get the sneaking suspicion she's smarter than Astro and I combined. She is very creative and very fun to train, so I'm trying to focus on that part of our relationship. Tonight while Astro was crated in a different room we worked on "off" (for the couch - imperative that she learn this with her guarding tendencies), down, and body handling. It was a very short session because I don't want to tax her but honestly she covered a lot of ground in that time period. She really loves the training and wants to do more, I'm the one who forced her to quit so we'd be ending on a definite happy note.

One thing we will definitely have to work on is polite greeting, her idea of a "welcome home" is launching herself at my face. It is adorable watching her flail her little arms at me though, she likes to stand on her back feet and wave her front feet at me with this absolutely crazed look in her eyes.

She is crated now again. And quiet, mercifully.

Pics tomorrow!

I talked a little bit to my SO tonight.

When we got together he was not used to a multiple dog household, and he really had very little dog experience outside his family's aging beagle mix.

At first this was not too much of a difficulty as both the dogs I had initially were seniors with years of training under their belts. His struggle started when we lost one of the older dogs and got a lively basenji puppy with lots of attitude and then added another young dog six months later.

He really struggled with the transition to first two and then three dogs for a while before our collie too passed away. He was still having a hard time after that because having two young and active dogs is very different from living with two old, well trained dogs or one senior not-so well trained beagle.

I asked him if there is anything he would like to share with you. He basically said it takes a lot of time, adjustment, and patience. He also said that advice from other dog folks is invaluable (you have gotten a lot of advice and support here already).

He wanted me to let you know that like me he has a lot of empathy for how you are struggling and we both wish you all the luck with this little girl.

Also I love the name Tulip

Go squish Astro for a while and feel better!

I'm so glad someone else is going through a lot of the same things. They sound a lot alike- Hank and Tulip. Hank is definitely a change for me too. We've had 5 years of just Mia and Summer and they are both easy. Mia is kind of weird and crazy but I know her and know what to expect. Hank is... a lot of dog. It is fun and he is brilliant. But man, it's a change.

Hank learned sit in just about 1 minute. It's crazy how smart he is and how fast he picks up on things. I get the feeling he doesn't always think though before doing so that's something we need to work on.

Do you have any pictures? How big is she and what color?

I definitely wish you luck and know you're NOT ALONE in this.

Thank you so much for the words Moth and Moth's SO I definitely do feel that a lot of it is not having had that formative experience of having multiple dogs as a kid, it's totally different dealing with dog-on-dog dynamics at my job versus 24/7 in my home. And I set myself up for intensity having a 1 year old and a 2 year old! Also I'm glad you like the name Tulip, some of my friends were against it because they felt it's too old-fashioned/old-lady for her.

Laurelin, working on pics! My internet situation has been questionable for awhile now. She's dark, almost black but with definite blue tones and some roaning. Not much light on her at all. The shelter named her Blue Belle. She's right at 39 pounds but she's quite skinny, I'd like to give her a touch more muscle mass (no more fat really, she's got a nice tuck and easily feelable ribs without being a rack of them). She'll probably bump up to 40 when she starts getting more exercise. Which makes her about 10 pounds less than Astro, he filled out to 50 in the past few months.

I am also so glad someone else is going through this! They do sound a lot alike. Not too surprising, Tulip really does look like she's got some terrier in her as well. In person, despite being big, she has a very Jack Russell (leggier/lighter version) head, tail, and overall body shape. She actually looks just like a friend's Jack Russell that she got off a working farm, just taller and painted in cattle dog colors.

Learning sit in one minute, sounds familiar! I am going to have to work to keep up with this girl. I feel like you have more experience here Laurelin, you've got Mia...I love Astro but he's kind of a big dope He's not slow but he is also not that inventive or creative. You put him in a pen or behind a low wall and he just accepts his fate, he doesn't sit there assessing the mechanisms of possible escape. He also quits super easily, she NEVER quits it seems.

I'm sure we'll both have our fill of entertainment from Tulip and Hank no matter what!

Some positive updates to report:

We worked on sit/stays and nail trimming.

I really genuinely expected her to care more about the nail trimming. My plan was, hold her foot a few times, feed her a million treats, call it good - just lay the foundations, not stress her out. Instead, she was totally fine with having her feet handled (maybe someone worked with her on it before?), and within 30 seconds grasped what I was trying to do and held her paw out herself and rested it in my hand for me to do three nails. I stopped because I don't want to push her and nail trimming can be hard for dogs, but she was totally good.

We did have a bit of a come-to-Jesus meeting about her leaping up and biting faces in excitement. She conked one of my teeth really hard and got my lip, and without even thinking I screamed, and yelled "THAT HURT TULIP." She hasn't done it since.

She's back in her crate. Sleeping quietly. She actually, believe it or not, managed to get out WITH THE CARIBINER last night. So now she gets two caribiners, the regular latch, and the moving cord - she's basically welded in there, it takes five minutes for me to undo everything.

Yay cattledogs! They are easily my favorite breed. Remember, the biting is a feature! The only problem with training such wickedly intelligent dogs is that everything else seems slow by comparison. I've lost my enthusiasm for working with dogs who don't figure out everything immediately and understand spoken English.

It really is interesting, watching her figure things out so quickly. I still think Astro is more my type of dog but she is growing on me, little by little.

I think I will really start to bond with her once our lockdown is over and we start to do classes. There are flyball classes nearby and I think she might really love that, even though I've never tried it. And I'd bet a million bucks she'll take more to agility than Astro did.

I really hope this works out, I feel terrible that this has been so difficult on you. I mean I broke down crying several times when Tucker was a puppy (and I didn't even live here most of the time) but if he had been harming my other pets I don't know what I'd do.


But I'd definitely cling to the training thing if that's fun. Before I had Tucker and had major dog want I'd borrow my aunt and uncle's dog and train her. I don't like her temperament AT ALL, but training? She's amazing. I love training her and we bonded over it.

I replied to the other thread, but it seems like things are going a bit better! I really hope that you can work everything out with less stress!!!!

I was in a 4 dog household for a while, and it was crazy. I'm down to one now due to certain circumstances, but I do miss having two dogs that will entertain each other while I do things. Hopefully that's going to change soon.

Thanks guys! Things are still going a bit better. We are reaching a sort of basic daily schedule, she gets numerous shorter, easy walks to potty and sniff around and exercise and then, per the shut down, lots and lots of crate time. A few training sessions a day, which we are both enjoying.

She offers a lot more behaviors than I'm used to. Getting Astro to offer anything is like pulling teeth, he quits in a heartbeat and doesn't get shaping very easily. This gal is ready to rock, every time I take her out of her crate and she sees the clicker she starts throwing out tons of stuff, trying to see what works.

I have discovered that the terrier side is also alive and well in her, she saw a squirrel and dove after it so hard she wrenched my shoulder. She tried to leap UP the tree and actually made it pretty far, she was going nuts.

Overall I just feel like the dog could do so much, I am not sure I'm an adequate home for her in several ways. On the other hand, if she can learn to co-exist with Astro I feel like she would be a lovely dog to try some of the stuff with that Astro isn't into (flyball and agility mainly).

I swear we have twin dogs except yours is a lot bigger.

That's the big thing I keep thinking about Hank: You could put this dog to anything and he'd excel. It is very neat to think about but also intimidating too!

We really do! I love coming on here and reading Hank updates because I get to be like "oh look another person getting hit with a wave of cattle dog crazy!"

I talked pretty casually with one of the trainers I know about her. The trainer owns several full cattle dogs of her own. When she heard that Tulip is a likely terrier cross she raised her eyebrows and said something to the effect of "so what sports or work are you going to do with her so she doesn't drive you insane?"

I'm also not used to having a dog that likes water, I'd even try dock diving with her if I could find a club and/or venue a suitable distance away. I'm not sure the food the shelter had her on was doing her too many favors, she's getting no exercise now basically, and she's still getting ripped. I just noticed it today, her shoulders are getting muscular. She's got the power behind her to do so many things.

Haha yes one of my flyball friends told me I picked up QUITE the mix and little destroyer. So far he is not destructive so that's good. I can see why so many little cattle dog types end up in shelters though.

I think we may be certifiable.

I can't wait to see a picture of her!!!

May be...? I think it's pretty certain

I can't wait to post pics either, I'm just having such a battle getting internet set up again. I really hate dealing with cable/net companies, and my work schedule is a little odd so we keep playing phone tag. I have been taking pics of her steadily though, so once the net is set up I'll have a number to post.

You know Chaz has a FB group, you could just upload photos via your phone...

First you have to figure out if you are keeping her or not of course but I've only found one place somewhat locally doing dock diving. Hogdog productions does just about everything dog related and should be a little over an hour from you. Still not close but closest I found when I last looked into it myself. Though in the city you are in there are two nice training facilities that cover just about everything else you might want to do with her too.

http://hogdogproductions.com

They have a yahoo group as well with an event calendar.

Sorry things haven't gone as smoothly as you hoped they would. Glad you are going to try and work through it but if the aggression continues don't feel too guilty about it not working out. Fingers crossed she settles in and it does work out.

^^Hog Dog is awesome!!! I'm only like 25 mins away, but it's awesome.

Things are going very well on a number of fronts!

First, her recall is dynamite. She is fantastic at recalling even under distraction, she rockets right to me. I've been working with her on it but honestly she's also just naturally good at paying attention to me and focusing.

She is much more relaxed about someone approaching her crate. I've been playing crate games every day with her, and feeding her randomly through the crate top when she's crated while I'm at home, and it is helping a ton. She's getting hand fed and it's helping her snatchiness, no food for her if she gets my fingers... She's also learning "wait" for door/thresholds, and she easily understands her release word from the crate games to apply to the rest of life as well.

She's immense fun to train. We are working on some tricks I'd never thought I'd get to practice because they're not just not Astro's cup of tea, like jumping into my arms.

New problem, though: she's got some SA developing. Really frustrating because that is one of the things I wanted to avoid in a new dog.

If she stays, I do think I will pursue herding with her through HogDog, thanks for the link Dagwell She really wants some sheep, she tries to herd anything and anyone.

I'm still not sure, overall, but I'm trying to not dwell on it. I do really like her the more I work with her, but I have to stay firm in that if she makes Astro's life worse she won't stay.

Also, strange development: the Catahoula I was looking at was transferred to the rescue I got Astro from! Just such a weird coincidence.

Sad update

Tulip went back. I tried so hard with her but it just wasn't the right fit.

I talked to a few trainers who work with aggression and fear (I'm lucky to have access to a number of them in the area). I talked to the shelter behavior eval staff. The general advice across the board was to call it in.

It's really disheartening. She is a good dog. And she did improve on many of the things I worked with her on, she was always game to try. Fantastic in the car, great for nail trims, met kids and other dogs on walks and was happy and sweet. But her space and guarding stuff continued in the apartment and as I worked her through one thing, another would crop up to take its place (the hallway, the couch, the crate, the water dish, the kitchen), and ultimately her making progress with me was not really a sign of how she was toward Astro; she is a very people-loving dog, less forgiving to her own species.

I made the the decision yesterday when I took Astro out and he didn't want to come back in the front door to go in front of her crate (there aren't very many places for me to put dog crates in my apartment, his is in my bedroom and hers was as far as possible, in the living room). It was just...so unlike him, and such a sign that he was uncomfortable.

I feel terribly raw and guilty and sad, but the rescue staff were very nice about it. I think I made the right decision for Astro and I and I hope that she gets a great home, she really deserves it.

Oh no. =< I'm so sorry it didn't work. But sometimes it is just not the right fit. You gave it a hell of a shot, but ultimately you do have to make the best choice for you and your existing dogs when you add another dog to the family... so I think you made the right choice, as difficult as it was.