Looks like we will be switching to raw in about a week. Sheena has developed allergies to her kibble and I am not comfortable at her age going through kibble after kibble trying to find one that will work. Esspecially while watching her itching and suffering. So as of next Friday, and thanks to Luka's owner who is coaching me about feeding raw(Which Luka is on and looks gorgeous on by the way, I will ask her if I can post an updated picture for all those here who remember Luka and miss him) we will be switching both Daya and Sheena to a raw diet. Wish us luck.
We are about to be the new converts to Raw
- Thread starter NicoleLJ
- Start date
Here is a site with info for you...http://preymodelraw.com
Commercial raw is expensive, and like kibble you will usually have other unecessary ingredients added. You have no control as to how much of what goes into it.
BARF has ground meat, fruits and veggies which are also not needed in a dogs diet. They aren't designed to be able to digest fruits and veggies well enough to make a dfference.
Prey model is whole chunks of raw raw meat/bones/organs. All of which are how dogs are designed to eat. No more is added. It's meant to imitate the way they eat in the wild. The link I gave you explains more about the differences, and has a getting started guide along with forums that are really helpful.
Commercial raw is expensive, and like kibble you will usually have other unecessary ingredients added. You have no control as to how much of what goes into it.
BARF has ground meat, fruits and veggies which are also not needed in a dogs diet. They aren't designed to be able to digest fruits and veggies well enough to make a dfference.
Prey model is whole chunks of raw raw meat/bones/organs. All of which are how dogs are designed to eat. No more is added. It's meant to imitate the way they eat in the wild. The link I gave you explains more about the differences, and has a getting started guide along with forums that are really helpful.
To be fair, 'dogs in the wild' eat primarily off of trash heaps, so I don't really see how this holds water. It's a good imitation of how wolves/coyotes/foxes/and so on eat, and since wolves are dogs' closest relatives it's something to go off of. But 10,000+ years of domestication probably does have an affect on digestive systems, whether we can see it or not.
^^Should add, I've been feeding raw for a year, so I'm not discounting the diet by any means. I just don't like to see "it's how they eat in the wild so that makes it best" as a 'pro' because I feel it kind of makes us look like we have no idea what we're doing or how to balance a diet.
Nicole: Good luck with the switch, let us know if you see improvement.
^^Should add, I've been feeding raw for a year, so I'm not discounting the diet by any means. I just don't like to see "it's how they eat in the wild so that makes it best" as a 'pro' because I feel it kind of makes us look like we have no idea what we're doing or how to balance a diet.
Nicole: Good luck with the switch, let us know if you see improvement.
To be fair, 'dogs in the wild' eat primarily off of trash heaps, so I don't really see how this holds water. It's a good imitation of how wolves/coyotes/foxes/and so on eat, and since wolves are dogs' closest relatives it's something to go off of. But 10,000+ years of domestication probably does have an affect on digestive systems, whether we can see it or not.
^^Should add, I've been feeding raw for a year, so I'm not discounting the diet by any means. I just don't like to see "it's how they eat in the wild so that makes it best" as a 'pro' because I feel it kind of makes us look like we have no idea what we're doing or how to balance a diet.
Nicole: Good luck with the switch, let us know if you see improvement.
^^Should add, I've been feeding raw for a year, so I'm not discounting the diet by any means. I just don't like to see "it's how they eat in the wild so that makes it best" as a 'pro' because I feel it kind of makes us look like we have no idea what we're doing or how to balance a diet.
Nicole: Good luck with the switch, let us know if you see improvement.
We do know how to balance their diet just fine. Variety. That's it. Wolves eat whatever prey they can get. Sometimes it's the same for several days in a row, other times when prey is plentiful they eat different stuff. We feed in variety as well, so we are balancing our domestic dogs as well or better than what a wolf may get. After a year of feeding raw, I'm sure you see your dogs are thriving well. I have been feeding raw for eight years now, and they are all thriving as well. Many improvements both in health and looks compared to kibble, so that pretty much says it all, IMO.
Well we are going to try her on a commercial raw. We order two cases of Carnivora, the Chicken dinner one. It should be here in about 2 weeks. Sheena's scratching has become so bad though that I didn't want her on her kibble at all any more. So we decided to put her on NRG Original(a Dehydrated food) till the other stuff arrives. Sheena and Daya seem to really like it. Fingers crossed it helps ease her itching till then. Poor girl.
Digestion is what drove dogs to domestication, and it certainly did change as they adapted to living with us. Dogs have between 4 and 30 copies of the gene for producing amylase. Wolves have exactly 2. Amylase is what allows animals to digest starchy carbohydrates, and why dogs are able to thrive on carb rich human foods which wolves cannot handle.
http://news.sciencemag.org/plants-animals/2013/01/diet-shaped-dog-domestication
Now, I am not saying a raw whole prey diet isn't healthy. I think it's very healthy. And at the same time, there are diets which incorporate carbs that are also very healthy. If you dog has 4 amylase genes, it will probably do better with less carbs. If it has 30, then it will probably do great with some carbs.
Dogs =/= wolves behaviorally, morphologically, or diet wise. Diet is what separated dogs from wolves long before any other traits were selected for.
http://news.sciencemag.org/plants-animals/2013/01/diet-shaped-dog-domestication
Now, I am not saying a raw whole prey diet isn't healthy. I think it's very healthy. And at the same time, there are diets which incorporate carbs that are also very healthy. If you dog has 4 amylase genes, it will probably do better with less carbs. If it has 30, then it will probably do great with some carbs.
Dogs =/= wolves behaviorally, morphologically, or diet wise. Diet is what separated dogs from wolves long before any other traits were selected for.
Sheena's allergies had gotten really bad. Her skin was red and inflamed looking all over, scabs on her belly, sides and under her legs. She wasn't very interested in the dog run either. She would go but her bouncy happy energy was gone. She would just stand in the river and let the coolness sooth her skin. We even do aloe treatments to try and sooth it at home. And yes she was getting Benadryl too. So we are trying a dehydrated food called NRG Original. It is pricy but so far proving to be what she needs. Today we checked her over and her skin is no longer red or inflamed. Only her scabs are left, along with loss of hair, to show that she was having bad allergies. Took her to the dog run today and she was acting like she was 8yrs old again. Running around, visiting with other dogs, running into and out of the water with excitement. And the best of all Doug and I have barely had to tell her to stop scratching she has done it so rarely. If this is how fast an improvement she is having just on dehydrated food I can't wait to see her on the raw diet.
So much wrong with Romy's commets
Hello naturalfeddogs,
There's so much right about your comments and so much wrong about Romy's.
As you know, dogs can survive but certainly not "thrive on carb rich human foods which wolves cannot handle" as Romy says... and he is incorrect about his comments on amylase.
I wrote an excellent webpage Your Dog is a Carnivore and a Domesticated Wolf which has withstood cross-examination in seven cases involving pet parents sueing their allopathic vet... the vets lost every time.
From my webpage:
"Herbivores and omnivores have one very powerful digestive weapon that dogs (carnivores) and cats (obligate carnivores) do not have… SALIVARY AMYLASE!
"Salivary amylase is a special enzyme that omnivores and grain and plant-eating animals (and humans) produce in their saliva.
Because grains are so hard to digest (contrary to what some nutritional “experts†and allopathic vets say), it’s a most critical enzyme that catalyses the breakdown of starch into sugars.
"In the saliva, amylase begins the chemical process of digestion needed to initiate the break down of starchy carbohydrates before they enter the stomach.
"Dogs (carnivores) and cats (obligate carnivores) do produce some amylase, but the enzyme is produced much further down the digestive tract, in the small intestine where they use amylase produced in the pancreas where the food is closer to going “out“ rather than coming “in“.
This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose and carbohydrates in grains and plant matter.
"Without salivary amylase, a carnivore’s (dog’s) and obligate carnivore’s (cat’s) digestion of grains is decidedly more difficult, if not somewhat impossible.
"The ultimate effects of feeding your obligate carnivore cat or carnivore dog low-quality pet foods [i.e. grocery store kibble, veterinarian-sold "prescription diets"] that are loaded with carbohydrates (grains, starches, cellulose and sugars) that are low protein / high carbohydrate / high starch / high cellulose / high sugars include swings in blood sugar and insulin, insulin resistance and high blood sugar.
"Eating grains and corn in these low-quality pets foods are responsible for most if not all of the degenerative diseases that pet parents pay lousy allopathic veterinarians thousands and thousands of dollars to try and cure… actually, these allopathic vets usually don’t cure anything, they only try to treat the symptoms with powerful and dangerous drugs like steroids [i.e. prednisone) and most often make matters even worse, for your pet and your wallet… cha-ching!"
Roger Biduk
Hello naturalfeddogs,
There's so much right about your comments and so much wrong about Romy's.
As you know, dogs can survive but certainly not "thrive on carb rich human foods which wolves cannot handle" as Romy says... and he is incorrect about his comments on amylase.
I wrote an excellent webpage Your Dog is a Carnivore and a Domesticated Wolf which has withstood cross-examination in seven cases involving pet parents sueing their allopathic vet... the vets lost every time.
From my webpage:
"Herbivores and omnivores have one very powerful digestive weapon that dogs (carnivores) and cats (obligate carnivores) do not have… SALIVARY AMYLASE!
"Salivary amylase is a special enzyme that omnivores and grain and plant-eating animals (and humans) produce in their saliva.
Because grains are so hard to digest (contrary to what some nutritional “experts†and allopathic vets say), it’s a most critical enzyme that catalyses the breakdown of starch into sugars.
"In the saliva, amylase begins the chemical process of digestion needed to initiate the break down of starchy carbohydrates before they enter the stomach.
"Dogs (carnivores) and cats (obligate carnivores) do produce some amylase, but the enzyme is produced much further down the digestive tract, in the small intestine where they use amylase produced in the pancreas where the food is closer to going “out“ rather than coming “in“.
This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose and carbohydrates in grains and plant matter.
"Without salivary amylase, a carnivore’s (dog’s) and obligate carnivore’s (cat’s) digestion of grains is decidedly more difficult, if not somewhat impossible.
"The ultimate effects of feeding your obligate carnivore cat or carnivore dog low-quality pet foods [i.e. grocery store kibble, veterinarian-sold "prescription diets"] that are loaded with carbohydrates (grains, starches, cellulose and sugars) that are low protein / high carbohydrate / high starch / high cellulose / high sugars include swings in blood sugar and insulin, insulin resistance and high blood sugar.
"Eating grains and corn in these low-quality pets foods are responsible for most if not all of the degenerative diseases that pet parents pay lousy allopathic veterinarians thousands and thousands of dollars to try and cure… actually, these allopathic vets usually don’t cure anything, they only try to treat the symptoms with powerful and dangerous drugs like steroids [i.e. prednisone) and most often make matters even worse, for your pet and your wallet… cha-ching!"
Roger Biduk
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Define digested. I am a huge fan of raw but I am also a biochemist and I am wondering what your definition of digested is.
As has been pointed out, dogs produce amylase in their saliva. That means that grains/carbs are being broken down as the dog eats. That step, in particular, creates not burden to the dog as he will produce it regardless of what he is fed.
As has been pointed out, dogs produce amylase in their saliva. That means that grains/carbs are being broken down as the dog eats. That step, in particular, creates not burden to the dog as he will produce it regardless of what he is fed.
"dogs produce amylase in their saliva"... really?
Hello Dekka,
They might elsewhere in the solar system, but certainly not dogs [or any carnivore for that matter] on Mother Earth...
I'm not going to repeat what I wrote in my post... it's all there, on my webpage and in the following great, industry-recognized 38-page white paper.
As a "biochemist", you'll enjoy reading the best white paper ever written on cat / dog nutrition The Biologically Appropriate Food Concept and the Dietary Needs of Dogs and Cats
You may want to read a few lines on page 6 under "Digestive Enzymes" and a few more starting on page 7 under "Biologically Appropriate Dog and Cat Food"
That white paper cost seven allopathic vets $146K in seven seperate suits... one would think a biochemist would know all of what is written in this excellent industry-leading white paper...
BTW, you say "As has been pointed out, dogs [carnivores] produce amylase in their saliva"... really... where again was that "pointed out"?
Anyways, enough time on this subject... good luck in the wonderful world of "biochemistry" and keep well.
Hello Dekka,
They might elsewhere in the solar system, but certainly not dogs [or any carnivore for that matter] on Mother Earth...
I'm not going to repeat what I wrote in my post... it's all there, on my webpage and in the following great, industry-recognized 38-page white paper.
As a "biochemist", you'll enjoy reading the best white paper ever written on cat / dog nutrition The Biologically Appropriate Food Concept and the Dietary Needs of Dogs and Cats
You may want to read a few lines on page 6 under "Digestive Enzymes" and a few more starting on page 7 under "Biologically Appropriate Dog and Cat Food"
That white paper cost seven allopathic vets $146K in seven seperate suits... one would think a biochemist would know all of what is written in this excellent industry-leading white paper...
BTW, you say "As has been pointed out, dogs [carnivores] produce amylase in their saliva"... really... where again was that "pointed out"?
Anyways, enough time on this subject... good luck in the wonderful world of "biochemistry" and keep well.
Sheena's situation is all-too typical
Hello Nicole,
Most all allergies in dogs (carnivores) are diet related... being fed a kibble that is loaded with dangerous cabohydrates [grains, starches, cellulose, corn, sugars, etc.]... what you are now feeding is exactly the opposite, hence her excellent recovery... nice job...!
Most allopathic vets, instead of changing to a balanced, species-appropriate, raw meat diet or a commercial diet that resembles one (most will recommend garbage Hill's Prescription Diet, Science Diet or another similar, God-awful kibble) they'll prescribe powerful steroids (prednisone is the fave) and then the real serious problems begin.
I'd also give some raw or very lightly cooked meaty bones, meats and organ meats for added nutrition.
Sheena would also benefit greaatly from an excellent probiotic similar to what Mercola sells.
The great Dr. Karen Becker, DVM, NMD wrote an excellent article about the benefits of probiotics, video included.
Nice job getting Sheena on the good stuff and back on the right track.... you saved her...!
Roger Biduk
Hello Nicole,
Most all allergies in dogs (carnivores) are diet related... being fed a kibble that is loaded with dangerous cabohydrates [grains, starches, cellulose, corn, sugars, etc.]... what you are now feeding is exactly the opposite, hence her excellent recovery... nice job...!
Most allopathic vets, instead of changing to a balanced, species-appropriate, raw meat diet or a commercial diet that resembles one (most will recommend garbage Hill's Prescription Diet, Science Diet or another similar, God-awful kibble) they'll prescribe powerful steroids (prednisone is the fave) and then the real serious problems begin.
I'd also give some raw or very lightly cooked meaty bones, meats and organ meats for added nutrition.
Sheena would also benefit greaatly from an excellent probiotic similar to what Mercola sells.
The great Dr. Karen Becker, DVM, NMD wrote an excellent article about the benefits of probiotics, video included.
Nice job getting Sheena on the good stuff and back on the right track.... you saved her...!
Roger Biduk