Agility trial, nuisance?

Babyblue5290

Happy Meal. Yum.
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
16,079
Likes
0
Points
0
#1
Would it be a nuisance or seen as rude if I took Talon to an agility trial to work on his dog reactivity? The trail I'm thinking of is in a large warehouse type building with barn style doors (working from pics of it online). They welcome well behaved dogs into the trial area, but I'm not sure he's ready for that. Should I email the trail person to let them know or just go?

I was thinking it would be good for him to go to a trail once or twice a month to work on staying calm around other dogs in conjuncture with his dog classes (which are currently on hiatus until the end of march). However, I'm nervous about going and creating a scene.

My plan is to just stay outside, a distance away if possible, and work on staying calm and work towards getting inside. Obviously I'd stay out of peoples way and I'm not going to let him just sit there and freak out lol He's been doing so well in class that I think he's ready for this. He's able to be right next to his classmates without getting super excited and he's going well when we see dogs outside on walks as well, so I think this would be a good next step. He's also not super vocal unless he get REALLY close to an unfamiliar dog and can't get to them, and than it's a a really high pitch screaming whine.

I'm mainly just don't want to ruin other people's day if he does have a freak out, even if I move him back quickly. Also, are there often out of control dogs running around? He's not aggressive, but I don't want to get further back in our training by too many run ins.

I'm hoping to go to the trial this weekend to check it out without Talon and than go the following trial with Talon to start practicing.

Good idea or bad idea? Things I should know before hand about etiquette? not sure if it matters but the trials at this place are NADAC and ASCA.

*edit* Oh and I was thinking it may be a good idea to get him a "I need space" yellow vest for it as well? I figure people at a dog trial would know what it meant and respect it more than the general public.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
4,381
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Midwest
#2
I think it would be better if you used a class scenario or training day scenario to work on those things initially. It sounds like you've done that, so if you're fairly sure that from a distance you can work on things and have it be positive and work your way closer to the action I'd say it's ok.

But if he's really reactive and can't even sit by the doors without going ape crazy, I'd say it's a bad idea. But if it can be done in a way that people don't even really know you're trying to work on reactivity, I'd say go for it :)

It's not like all those dogs are angels anyway, but nobody wants to see a dog at the end of its leash going crazy all day either. They worked hard to get to those trials, and though a dog should be ready for anything, they should get the benefit of a fairly clean trial setting from the spectators.

I don't know about agility, but some places don't let dogs in that aren't in the competition. Just something to check out before hand too
 

SaraB

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
5,798
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
St. Louis, MO
#3
But if it can be done in a way that people don't even really know you're trying to work on reactivity, I'd say go for it :)
This. Reactive dogs aren't supposed to be at trials period, however, many of the dogs there are actually reactive, you just would never know it. The handlers have the ability to manage their dogs well enough and read their stress signals way before a reaction happens. I know this because Zuma is reactive. I would shoot for a small fun match or something along those lines first or visit other classes or training facilities and work there. Unless you are 100% sure you can bring him without him reacting.
 

MrsBoats

Legion of Zoom Den Mother
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
228
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Rhode Island
#4
If it is a NADAC trial you are planning on bringing your dog to, this is directly from the NADAC website:

18) Can I bring my non-competing dog to a NADAC trial?
Yes, provided the club holding the trial allows non-entered dogs, that your dog has good manners and is kept on leash and under control at all times.
NADAC trials (at least around here) tend to be small and a dog that is reactive will stick out like a sore thumb. If your dog has a big outburst...you might be asked to leave especially if you're not trialing. The NADAC club I trial at has low tolerance for dog aggression at their trials and they will write up and report offending dogs. You don't want anyone to misunderstand what's going on with him if he reacts to another dog.

Personally, I wouldn't use a trial setting to work on something like dog reactivity. That sort of stuff is what classes and matches are for. If you can, I would try to take classes or drop in run thrus in different facilities where there are different dogs he has to learn to behave around. That would be more suitable for what you are trying to do. ;)
 

Babyblue5290

Happy Meal. Yum.
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
16,079
Likes
0
Points
0
#6
This. Reactive dogs aren't supposed to be at trials period, however, many of the dogs there are actually reactive, you just would never know it. The handlers have the ability to manage their dogs well enough and read their stress signals way before a reaction happens. I know this because Zuma is reactive. I would shoot for a small fun match or something along those lines first or visit other classes or training facilities and work there. Unless you are 100% sure you can bring him without him reacting.
How do you find a fun match? Also, the other places here wouldn't let him "visit" or do you mean do classes at other places?

And that's the thing, I'm not 100% sure. David is, but he can be a bit overconfident. At the opposite end, I'm under confident. >_< lol However, as of now, we've worked at two indoor facilities and one outdoor area, petsmart, petco, around the neighborhood, and at the dog park outside of the fence. In those situations he's able to keep his cool and focus on me, even with one class of 11 other dogs. We've had dogs run up to him outside and he was able to keep a sit until we said it was OK to greet. He's not aggressive, and he does greet well, he's just overexcited when on leash.

I'm really just trying to figure out how to work on this in an environment that's more challenging that what we've already done.



I think it would be better if you used a class scenario or training day scenario to work on those things initially. It sounds like you've done that, so if you're fairly sure that from a distance you can work on things and have it be positive and work your way closer to the action I'd say it's ok.

But if he's really reactive and can't even sit by the doors without going ape crazy, I'd say it's a bad idea. But if it can be done in a way that people don't even really know you're trying to work on reactivity, I'd say go for it :)

It's not like all those dogs are angels anyway, but nobody wants to see a dog at the end of its leash going crazy all day either. They worked hard to get to those trials, and though a dog should be ready for anything, they should get the benefit of a fairly clean trial setting from the spectators.

I don't know about agility, but some places don't let dogs in that aren't in the competition. Just something to check out before hand too
Oh I emailed the trial secretary to ask about dogs that aren't competing being there and they said that was fine :) He went to two classes (one Intermediate level basic training and a "Keep Calm" class) over the past two months and he's done really well. One was indoors and the other was outdoors, and before that he was in a class at another facility indoors with 11 other dogs in the class. I wish I had a video of him while working around other dogs, but basically in those classes he had very little issues. In fact, he was the dog that was used for almost all the activities that involved bringing a dog closer to another dog, or in it's line of sight because he was so non-reactive and focused on me.

And see what you mentioned is exactly what I want to aviod. I know people are there to trial and have probably worked hard to get their dogs there, and I in no way want to ruin that for them!

I'm trying to figure out a way to take him to that "next step" in his training because right now he's so cool around the area's we work in that it's very hard to reach threshold, not that I'm trying to reach threshold LOL I just mean he's comfortable in those area's I want to make it to the next step, I'm just unsure how to do that.
 

RRs

New Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
3
Likes
0
Points
0
#7
Go for it. Especially if your plan is to stay around the perimeter initially until you are confident that your dog is comfortable.

There are plenty of reactive dogs that compete in agility. (and even more reactive owners/handlers) The first time I attended a trials I was shocked at how many times I was told by an owner/handler to give their dog some space because it was reactive/aggressive. I suspect some of it was out of concern that their dog might start something that my dog would finish. (She wouldn't - she is a sweetheart.) My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
 

Babyblue5290

Happy Meal. Yum.
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
16,079
Likes
0
Points
0
#8
Ok, so it seems like my main question would than be, when is it time to advance from the classroom or general area's to a trial situation? Or what would be a good stepping stone between the two? At this point I can almost guarantee no reaction in a classroom or pet store, but that's not really a trial atmosphere.

I've worked on focus in as many area's as I can think of that there would be dogs, but I feel like he's so used to those area's that he just doesn't care about the dogs anymore. How would you test if he's ready for the next step?

I'm thinking maybe I could take him to a large park I know of that he hasn't been to before and work there, but the chance of being run at in an aggressive manner by other dogs is fairly high at that park as far as I hear. So I'm kind of hesitant on that one.
 

AgilityPup

Agility freak!
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
5,242
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
#9
Ask the trainers of your class if they have some dogs that they could work with you with. New dogs. If you train with an agility club, ask if you could come work him while they're running. I know personally I have worked with my dogs with issues at trials, but any time I did, I was also there competing.

I would assume that when you see dogs 'amped up' you will see him closer to threshold, where he is a herder. So I would ask the people in the class or the trainers if they know a good, dog friendly dog you can barrow. :) I have done it with Psyche (been the good, dog friendly dog) and worked on getting her all up and ready to go around other dogs who were dog reactive so owners could work on controlling their dogs there.

OR! Another possibility is to go and make friends with some people at the agility trial and ask them if you could come out with him someday when they practice and do what I said above.

If he hasn't been around dogs doing agility before, I would start with one or two dogs at a time anyway, instead of a whole trial.
 

Sekah

The Monster.
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
1,339
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Toronto
#10
My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
That's hardly fair. Reactivity can be worked on until it's imperceptible, but those neural pathways are worn into the brain for the rest of a dog's life. If these pathways aren't used, they will grow over just like a woodland path. However, the path is always there and the risk of a reactivity episode is always present. To me, asking for people to give you and your dog space speaks of your responsibility towards your dog's needs.

My dog is reactive. We regularly take part in agility, flyball, obedience competitions, and we take part in demos where all the dogs are high on adrenaline. No one would know to look at my dog that she's reactive (or any of the other dogs there) but that's because we're all cautious and conscientious about giving everyone lots of room to work.

Dealing with reactivity is 50% training and 50% management.
 

AgilityPup

Agility freak!
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
5,242
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
#11
My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
Sounds like someone who has never had a dog reactive dog. If only everyone was so lucky. You don't "cure" dog aggression, in my opinion. All you can do is MANAGE it.
 

MrsBoats

Legion of Zoom Den Mother
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
228
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Rhode Island
#12
Let me ask you this...where exactly have you been taking classes? Because the word "class room" you've used is what not I think of when I think agility. Where are you located?? How long have you been training in agility??

We have training places in New England that host agility trials and run thrus where you can just drop into that day. Like this place in MA - http://www.surefiredogs.com/about-us/our-training-center They have trials and run thrus as well as classes. Sometimes they have over 50 dogs for their agility run thrus on a Saturday.

Or this place in NH...http://www.alldogsgym.com/content/view/31/ they have classes as well as trials and matches. This would be where you bang out all of the bugs for getting ready to run agility at a trial. I also recommend going to drop in run thrus at as many places as you can. That's how you proof a dog to be able to run in a trial setting.

If your trainer is competing in agility themselves, they should be able to tell you where drop ins and matches are being held.
 

DJEtzel

Active Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
3,267
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
#13
Honestly, I'd go. I'd park a fair distance away, and work him in the car first. Wait for him to get distracted by a dog going away and see if you can call/redirect and reward him. If not, work on LAT from the car. If you can't from the car, I wouldn't get out, but it will still be great training from inside.

If he's like "Meh." I'd get out and work him, let him hear the dogs barking, etc. near your car. Maybe take 10 steps closer to the site. Do random attention exercises, tricks and loose leash walking.

Then go home.

I would not go within 10 yards of anyone with a dog there, personally. I would be very embarrassed if my dog reacted at a place like that, and wouldn't want to find someone to apologize to after that.

Just keep it short and sweet. :)
 

BostonBanker

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
8,854
Likes
1
Points
36
Location
Vermont
#14
There are plenty of reactive dogs that compete in agility. (and even more reactive owners/handlers) The first time I attended a trials I was shocked at how many times I was told by an owner/handler to give their dog some space because it was reactive/aggressive. I suspect some of it was out of concern that their dog might start something that my dog would finish. (She wouldn't - she is a sweetheart.) My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
I'd say the same thing if I felt that your dog was crowding either of my dogs, or if I thought you weren't paying attention and it was about to happen. I own one reactive dog and one dog who is about the least reactive dog on the planet. I'd say it with either.

With my reactive dog (and yes, she's been to agility trials regularly, up to and including the national finals with 5 rings running at once), you probably wouldn't notice that she was reactive unless your dog was really in her face. She's learned to tolerate a lot from other dogs in crowded spaces at agility trials. But tolerance does not equal enjoyment, and I will do everything in my power to get other dogs to give her the space she needs to be truly comfortable. It has nothing to do with my concern that your dog might "finish it". It is my job, as her owner, to stand up for her. As long as I do my job, she never feels the need to get reactive, because there is never a point where her tolerance is pushed beyond her limit.

With my non-reactive dog - I want him to stay that way. He's polite and non-reactive and not one to try to visit or say hi to other dogs in a trial setting, and that is perfect for me. He doesn't need dogs getting pushy and in his space, even if his tolerance level is fantastic.

I think you underestimate the incredible amount of time many sports people spend working on situations like reactivity. Like others have said, you probably don't realize how many dogs at a trial have dog/dog or dog/human issues, because everyone is so on top of their dogs. It's one of my favorite things about trials!

As for Talon - it's hard to say without knowing exactly how he behaves. I might go and work on the far end of the parking lot and see how things go. I wouldn't go inside unless he's super, super relaxed and focused, AND if there is a lot of extra room (one of the trials I've attended in a warehouse would have been perfect for this sort of work because of how much space there was). I wouldn't even try to go anywhere near the ring, no matter how good he is being. Among other things, you don't want another dog to react back to him if he starts up and wind up making his work regress. But I don't think working him outside is a bad idea, as long as you are willing to bail if any competitors start to look bothered.
 

Red.Apricot

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
2,984
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
Southern California
#15
Elsie's a very reactive dog, but she's doing well at trials. It requires a lot of play, training and management.

I'd vote go, but be prepared to leave if it's too much for him. Watch your dog, take lots of treats/a toy, and see what happens.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Oklahoma
#16
My two dogs are reactive. I'd almost call Summer snarky moreso because she just seems to want to lay down some ground rules. Mia is a lot more reactive and has gone after dogs when they get too close. We had an incident with a border collie last trial when the handler let the dog come up to Mia and I.

Last week we had a lady in our class with a pit bull who I guess is offended by keeping Mia away from her. She came up to tell me her dog wasn't aggressive. I felt bad but tried to explain that mine could be reactive particularly with large exuberant dogs (which this dog is).

So yeah.... Lots of reactive dogs of all different sizes out there. I feel your pain.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Oklahoma
#17
As far as the original question I think as long as your dog is under control and your not getting in the way or causing a scene it's be fine.
 

crazedACD

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,048
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
West Missouri
#18
My initial thought was that I personally wouldn't really care, but I would just be careful to heavily manage. I would hate to bring a fearful dog to a trial and have another dog react and throw my dog off his game, yknow? I did bring Fiona to a barn hunt, and a big confo show. I just wanted to get her out and socialized, she is a little reactive to dogs reacting to her so we worked on some of that. Actually barn hunt would be a good place to go, lots of terriers (read: reactive :p).

At this point I can almost guarantee no reaction in a classroom or pet store, but that's not really a trial atmosphere.
He probably won't react even as much at a trial atmosphere...well, in an area with a lot of dogs around. If you are off in the distance alone, and someone walks their dog towards you, he will probably react (if you aren't managing it). I'm more likely to get a reaction out of any of my dogs on a simple walk or if I'm alone at a park and someone is walking towards us with their dog. Anticipation and all that :p.

There are plenty of reactive dogs that compete in agility. (and even more reactive owners/handlers) The first time I attended a trials I was shocked at how many times I was told by an owner/handler to give their dog some space because it was reactive/aggressive. I suspect some of it was out of concern that their dog might start something that my dog would finish. (She wouldn't - she is a sweetheart.) My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
Yeah I don't really want other people's dogs crowding around my dogs, it is quite easy for something to happen in a second. And then if you're trialing, you don't want to end up with a bleeding ear or a pissed/scared dog and have to scratch out or have them not on their game. Not every dog is perfect.
 
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
1,945
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Minnesota
#19
Go for it. Especially if your plan is to stay around the perimeter initially until you are confident that your dog is comfortable.

There are plenty of reactive dogs that compete in agility. (and even more reactive owners/handlers) The first time I attended a trials I was shocked at how many times I was told by an owner/handler to give their dog some space because it was reactive/aggressive. I suspect some of it was out of concern that their dog might start something that my dog would finish. (She wouldn't - she is a sweetheart.) My initial thought was "Seriously? You regularly attend trails with hundreds of other dogs present and your dog is still reactive? Maybe you need to work on training other than jumps and weaves."
Not all dogs like having other dogs in their space. And that's not something you always "cure" by training, that's often an innate part of their personality, and it's something you manage. I feel like there are a lot of high drive, very successful sports dogs, who, while not outwardly reactive, do not like having dogs up in their face.

And everyone's definition of "reactive" is different. Out of my three dogs, Missy is the most dog selective/dog aggressive. She doesn't like other large females. She doesn't like rude dogs, pushy dogs, loud dogs, jumpy dogs, etc. We'll go to the park, the pet store, whatever, and she's just fine seeing other dogs, being in proximity to them, she ignores them - zero issues. She has issues when they get in her "bubble", and I'm fine with that. It gives me plenty of time to stop approaching dogs/owners and tell them that she's not friendly. I consider her dog reactive, but most people are surprised when I tell them that.

Jack used to make an absolute scene in public when he saw another dog - barking, spinning, whining, growling, crying, the whole nine yards. He was excited, and frustrated, and his behavior reflected that. But he LOVES dogs. He greets them very well when he's allowed, he gets along with almost all the dogs he's met, etc - we just had to work on appropriate behavior in public.

And even with all of this...I usually do not let my dogs greet other strange dogs in public, even my "perfect" dog who's never met anyone she didn't love. I don't know you, I don't know your dog, I don't know if you have an adequate grasp of your dog's temperament. Especially if it's in a situation where we're working on training - no. Just no.
 

Babyblue5290

Happy Meal. Yum.
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
16,079
Likes
0
Points
0
#20
Ask the trainers of your class if they have some dogs that they could work with you with. New dogs. If you train with an agility club, ask if you could come work him while they're running. I know personally I have worked with my dogs with issues at trials, but any time I did, I was also there competing.

I would assume that when you see dogs 'amped up' you will see him closer to threshold, where he is a herder. So I would ask the people in the class or the trainers if they know a good, dog friendly dog you can barrow. :) I have done it with Psyche (been the good, dog friendly dog) and worked on getting her all up and ready to go around other dogs who were dog reactive so owners could work on controlling their dogs there.

OR! Another possibility is to go and make friends with some people at the agility trial and ask them if you could come out with him someday when they practice and do what I said above.

If he hasn't been around dogs doing agility before, I would start with one or two dogs at a time anyway, instead of a whole trial.
Yeah, he'll definitely be closer to threshold. I'm going to go this next weekend and maybe just walk around watch and talk to people. Well...if I can get the courage to talk to people, we will see how that goes. But at the very least I figure it will give me an idea of the layout and whatnot.

He has been around dogs doing agility before, as well as disc competitions. However, never an agility trial area.

Honestly, I'd go. I'd park a fair distance away, and work him in the car first. Wait for him to get distracted by a dog going away and see if you can call/redirect and reward him. If not, work on LAT from the car. If you can't from the car, I wouldn't get out, but it will still be great training from inside.

If he's like "Meh." I'd get out and work him, let him hear the dogs barking, etc. near your car. Maybe take 10 steps closer to the site. Do random attention exercises, tricks and loose leash walking.

Then go home.

I would not go within 10 yards of anyone with a dog there, personally. I would be very embarrassed if my dog reacted at a place like that, and wouldn't want to find someone to apologize to after that.

Just keep it short and sweet. :)
That's pretty much what I was thinking of doing. I won't bring him out if he isn't doing well and if it doesn't go well we can bail at any time without any regrets. Thanks :)

As for Talon - it's hard to say without knowing exactly how he behaves. I might go and work on the far end of the parking lot and see how things go. I wouldn't go inside unless he's super, super relaxed and focused, AND if there is a lot of extra room (one of the trials I've attended in a warehouse would have been perfect for this sort of work because of how much space there was). I wouldn't even try to go anywhere near the ring, no matter how good he is being. Among other things, you don't want another dog to react back to him if he starts up and wind up making his work regress. But I don't think working him outside is a bad idea, as long as you are willing to bail if any competitors start to look bothered.
To be honest, I wasn't even planning on going into the trial the first time out. Evewn if it went really well and he was doing great, I think that might be pushing my luck a bit. So I think we've decided to go and see how he does and if he doesn't do well we will leave and rethink. :)

THanks!
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top