PAL/ILP Registration

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

Anyone ever done it?

I would like to get Jackson doing some Earthdog this fall, and it seems in order to do the tests or get titles, you need an AKC registered dog OR a PAL/ILP.

Just wondering if anyone has it, and how quickly they hear back. Looks like there's a $35 nonrefundable fee.

Also, should I just register him as a Silky Terrier since I'm going to send in his pictures and they will probably be like "That's not a yorkie!" lol.

I was going to use these pictures:

Even after I pay, and send this in, can they NOT accept, or do they typically always?

Shai · Sep 13, 2013

I don't know Yorkies and Silkies well enough to give you guidance there, but typically if your ILP application is denied, which it can be, they can give you a Canine Partners (mix breed) number instead.

ETA: I don't know if they always do that, though. Either way, once you submit the form and fee it is nonfundable. If denied, they still evaluated the application and keep the fee for doing so.

Emily · Sep 13, 2013

I haven't done it yet, but I will be for Blossom as she's not registered. The bottom picture you posted doesn't meet requirements as it needs to show his front all the way down to his feet. The top pic I think would be fine, though a plainer background would probably be ideal.

JacksonsMom said:

They can deny you the number if they don't feel he's a member of the breed you submit him as. That said, it's my understanding that they're fairly relaxed. People told me I could easily ILP Mackenzy as a purebred Cocker, which she certainly is not. I don't think you'd have any issue getting him listed as a Yorkie or Silky, honestly.

Jynx · Sep 13, 2013

I got an ILP on a german shepherd many moons ago. I suppose they can reject it, but if your honest in the application , send in the pictures required and a copy of the neuter/spay certificate, you shouldn't have a problem

Didn't take long to receive it, maybe 10 days or so
Diane

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

Emily said:

Awesome, thanks.

Actually, the pic of his face does show his legs in the original (I must have accidentally posted my avatar lol)... but I am going to try to find a better one.

The body shot I was going to crop out, do you think that would be okay or should I take a new one?

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

Hmm, maybe this one? I'm looking thru my photos, I actually don't have too many of him standing and facing me lol.

or this

AmandaNola · Sep 13, 2013

I'm getting Nola's PAL as soon as I decide on a reg. name.

If Jackson's not purebred, there's Canine Partners for mixed breeds.

Emily · Sep 13, 2013

Canine Partners is great for rally, OB, and agility, but dogs can't do breed specific activities without a PAL/ILP. Canine Partners aren't eligible for Earth Dog, herding, coursing... etc

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

AmandaNola said:

Yeah, like what Emily said, I don't think Canine Partners would work for earthdog.

And I'm pretty positive he is a purebred Yorkie (just totally out of standard), I mean there is nothing else in him... he doesn't have any resemblance to any other breeds besides a Silky or Yorkie (which are closely related as it is, but Silky's are more 'rare'). Personality wise he matches all Silky descriptions to a tee. I did see his mother when I got him the from the in-home 'breeder' (out of a classifieds ad) and she was totally Yorkie. Was about 9lbs. The 'breeder' told me his father was 7lbs. But did not meet him, only a picture, and he looked yorkie too. No idea how my monster turned into my big 17lb'er LOL but I am glad.

I do know of another purebred Yorkie who was nearing 20lbs. Genetics are funny.

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

I would think if they looked at these pics, they'd probably go for Silky Terrier over a purebred Yorkie though but maybe I'm wrong.

Aleron · Sep 13, 2013

If he was sold to you as a Yorkie and his parents were Yorkies, I would send the application in for Yorkie along with any info you have (breeeers name, registration with any registry, etc). One question it asks is why you believe he is a purebred, which it doesn't sound like you believe he's a Silky. Also ppl can get weird about rare breed ILPs if you draw too much attention. I know someone who has an ILP Mal that is probably not a Mal, that dog nearly lost his MACH when people complained he wasn't what he was ILPed as. Which brings us to point #2 - if you want to ILP your dog, you need to tell people that's what he is to the best of your knowledge. Doing otherwise can cause problems.

ILPs are turned down they don't feel the dog is the breed they are being applied for. I have known several people who have been denied, on dogs that were not what they were trying for. One on a whippet who is probably a lurcher but ended up with an ILP on a second try after she got Whippet people to write saying they believed he was a Whippet. So being honest on breed can be important.

That said, they are not looking for show quality examples. I suspect a good number of ILPed toy dogs are oversized, since tiny size is easy to lose if not heavily selected for.

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

Aleron said:

Ok, thank you!

Yeah I have NO information. Don't even know the "breeders" name. No registration with anything. Total BYB classifieds ad dog. lol. She just bred her pet dog and sold them in the newspaper ads. Went to a rowhouse in Baltimore City to pick him up. Only he and his brother were left.

I personally have always thought he was a Silky, but I just feel like the odds of it are probably low. I just have never met another yorkie, big or small, like him personality-wise or looks-wise. He's longer than he his tall (Silky), his ears are larger and more erect, his eyes are very Silky, his head shape, tail stance, etc. I've spoken to 10 Silky breeders who think he is likely a Silky and belong to a Silky group on FB where those folks chimed in and say he is very Silky-like. A breeder of both Silkys and Yorkies told me she had never seen a yorkie look like him *shrugs* Who knows. The sad thing is a well-bred Silky and a well-bred Yorkie are very easy to tell apart. So many BYB yorkies out there though so it's just really hard to know.

Yorkie

Silky

Yorkie

Silky

sassafras · Sep 13, 2013

A lot of BYB yorkies are much larger than show yorkies and do not have nearly the delicate/refined pictures of those show yorkies. The poorly bred ones are all over the board.

Laurelin · Sep 13, 2013

This is my aunt's yorkie, Webster. I need to get more recent photos of him but he actually looks quite a bit like Jackson!

My grandma also has a long and low kind of yorkie only she has floppy ears. Her name is Rose.

I've seen a lot of BYB yorkies that style.

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

Laurelin said:

OMG why have I never seen him before?! Adorable, you definitely need to get me more pictures lol.

This was Jax in that wonky stage. His hair was a wreck.

JacksonsMom · Sep 13, 2013

okay, i'm going way off topic now, but just found this pic. Omg he is such a monster (okay, for a Yorkie, lol). this was me holding him when he was around 5 months old. Awww I miss my puppy.

Laurelin · Sep 13, 2013

JacksonsMom said:

I don't see him too often really. He's about 9 months younger than Mia? I bet he's at least 13+ lbs. Not sure. He's a cutie and a landshark lol. He's a tenacious little dog. Definitely a terrier through and through.

I forget how old he was in those pictures, but pretty young. They'd just gotten him in those pics.

Daww

Aleron · Sep 14, 2013

sassafras said:

Oh yeah for sure. Like I said, if you don't breed for those extreme features (and being under 10lbs is an extreme feature) you lose them pretty quickly. We see a lit if Yorkies at both shops I work at and Jackson-types really aren't all that unusual in the pet bred gene pool. It's the same with a lot of the toy breeds - I know a few 15-20lb Paps and Poms too. Also kind of dwarfy characteristics (short even bowed legs, big head) don't seem all that uncommon in pet bred Yorkies either. IWOs I've seen much less long bodied looking Yorkies than Jackson. If he came in, I'd not question him being a Yorkie but would probably joke about him being a Giant Yorkie

It's ok to not have history, I just thought if you had anything you could send it. Ziggy is from a shelter though, no registration of background and he got his ILP without any issue. He doesn't really look like a CH Cardi but like I said, they aren't going for show quality, just basic breed type. The dogs I have known who didn't go through were really obviously not the breed they were being applied for.

skittledoo · Sep 14, 2013

I have a PAL on Joey. When I got him I was told he was purebred and originally from a breeder down in Florida. I questioned whether or not he was pure at first since he isn't 100% true to standard, but then I was comparing him to Ibizans I see all the time in the show ring and he is certainly not show quality. He is very Ibizan and a few other Ibizans with darker colored noses like him have popped up recently so it's sparked some interest in what is causing it to pop up. Aside from the fact that he looks Ibizan Hound his temperament is also very Ibizan and we may have a lead on the breeder he came from, but not 100% positive and it's being kept quiet right now among the Ibizan folk who have been helping me track down his origins.

I had no issues registering him with a PAL. Make sure that you use clear photographs that show a complete side profile and front profile. I would recommend they be somewhat closeup shots.

Aside from that, have you come up with a name you would like for him? If you PAL him we have to do earthdog together. I've been wanting to try it out with Joey.

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