A Game of Thrones
- Thread starter Laurelin
- Start date
Re Robb warging into Grey Wind
Small spoiler ADWDI mentioned this in my wonderfully long post (which I don't blame you for not reading). I don't think of it as a theory, really, after what we know from the prologue in ADWD, and the fact that Robb's last words were "Grey Wind." As far as I'm concerned that is what happened
MAJOR spoiler ADWD I bet he "died" just to be dramatic but either he's in Ghosts body (hence the prologue) or Mel brings him back or some combination of the two. There is a theory that Jon will meet LSH, and she'll give her "life" to reincarnate him the way Beric did for her (Azor Ahai reborn). I would be majorly majorly surprised and impressed if he's dead and written out. I highly doubt he is, just because of R+L=J, seems to me the story is leading up to Jon being a huge player at the end.
Small spoiler ADWDI mentioned this in my wonderfully long post (which I don't blame you for not reading). I don't think of it as a theory, really, after what we know from the prologue in ADWD, and the fact that Robb's last words were "Grey Wind." As far as I'm concerned that is what happened
MAJOR spoiler ADWD I bet he "died" just to be dramatic but either he's in Ghosts body (hence the prologue) or Mel brings him back or some combination of the two. There is a theory that Jon will meet LSH, and she'll give her "life" to reincarnate him the way Beric did for her (Azor Ahai reborn). I would be majorly majorly surprised and impressed if he's dead and written out. I highly doubt he is, just because of R+L=J, seems to me the story is leading up to Jon being a huge player at the end.
I did read your long post! 
I just have trouble remembering what I read, haha.
SPOILERS HERE
So you think that R+L = J? I really want to but am not 100% sold yet. I'm re-reading from the start (been a while) so we'll see what I come up with this time around.
I really don't think he's dead but I'm not sure if I want Martin bringing him back from the dead. Martin's stated that in his world there has to be consequences for being brought back to life (like in LSH's case) so what would those be?
I've wondered if he's not just injured then he warged into Ghost and that's why he didn't feel the final knife?
Of course the tv series took out Robb's last words of 'Greywind' and replaced it with 'Mother'. Not sure what that means as far as the warg front...
I just have trouble remembering what I read, haha.SPOILERS HERE
So you think that R+L = J? I really want to but am not 100% sold yet. I'm re-reading from the start (been a while) so we'll see what I come up with this time around.
I really don't think he's dead but I'm not sure if I want Martin bringing him back from the dead. Martin's stated that in his world there has to be consequences for being brought back to life (like in LSH's case) so what would those be?
I've wondered if he's not just injured then he warged into Ghost and that's why he didn't feel the final knife?
Of course the tv series took out Robb's last words of 'Greywind' and replaced it with 'Mother'. Not sure what that means as far as the warg front...
Huge theory with evidence from book one (no evidence in the show) till fighty smilies. Huge spoiler ADWD after fighty guys.
"So you think that R+L = J? I really want to but am not 100% sold yet. I'm re-reading from the start (been a while) so we'll see what I come up with this time around."
Yeah, I'm pretty sold. I think it's actually quite cleverly done, because most of the relevant info is in book one. For me, at that point, the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna thing wasn't really clear because we hadn't gotten the whole backstory laid out properly, and because there was so much going on in the present.
Everyone in the book says that fathering Jon was the ONE TIME Ned "forgot his honor." I'm thinking it was one of two times he told a huge public lie in an attempt to save/help his family... the second being his legitimization of Joffrey.
I think it would be pretty cool if Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped and Jon is actually a legitimate Stark/Targ (Ice/Fire). Proving it would be difficult though.
:fighting0040::fighting0040::fighting0040:
"I really don't think he's dead but I'm not sure if I want Martin bringing him back from the dead. Martin's stated that in his world there has to be consequences for being brought back to life (like in LSH's case) so what would those be?
I've wondered if he's not just injured then he warged into Ghost and that's why he didn't feel the final knife?"
That's a good point, the last Jon chapter reads:
'“Ghost,†he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold…'
That's a pretty clear parallel between his and Robb's deaths and it makes sense that he wargs into Ghost then.
Also, in the prologue, when Varamyr's spirit leaves his body, describes himself as cold, and when his body dies, he says it's super cold, so that would account for Jon feeling cold instead of the fourth blade.
It would be pretty miraculous to survive being stabbed in the belly and between the shoulder blades and presumably more places, though. I don't think they even have a proper maester at Castle Black right now. So how would Jon's body be salvaged? Maybe he is reborn in another body, and that's the consequence? ( I hope not)
"Of course the tv series took out Robb's last words of 'Greywind' and replaced it with 'Mother'. Not sure what that means as far as the warg front..."
I think Robb saying 'Grey Wind' was just sort of an Easter Egg in the book (especially if we do find out that Jon warged when he said Ghost, that would make it fairly obvious what happened to Robb on a re-read of the series.) If they did it in the show, they'd either have to cut Grey Wind's death or tried to make a fight scene with him.
Also:
Screenshots from the finale (includes spoilers. creepy.):
http://imgur.com/a/5Ueb1#0
"So you think that R+L = J? I really want to but am not 100% sold yet. I'm re-reading from the start (been a while) so we'll see what I come up with this time around.
"Yeah, I'm pretty sold. I think it's actually quite cleverly done, because most of the relevant info is in book one. For me, at that point, the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna thing wasn't really clear because we hadn't gotten the whole backstory laid out properly, and because there was so much going on in the present.
Everyone in the book says that fathering Jon was the ONE TIME Ned "forgot his honor." I'm thinking it was one of two times he told a huge public lie in an attempt to save/help his family... the second being his legitimization of Joffrey.
I think it would be pretty cool if Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped and Jon is actually a legitimate Stark/Targ (Ice/Fire). Proving it would be difficult though.
:fighting0040::fighting0040::fighting0040:
"I really don't think he's dead but I'm not sure if I want Martin bringing him back from the dead. Martin's stated that in his world there has to be consequences for being brought back to life (like in LSH's case) so what would those be?
I've wondered if he's not just injured then he warged into Ghost and that's why he didn't feel the final knife?"
That's a good point, the last Jon chapter reads:
'“Ghost,†he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold…'
That's a pretty clear parallel between his and Robb's deaths and it makes sense that he wargs into Ghost then.
Also, in the prologue, when Varamyr's spirit leaves his body, describes himself as cold, and when his body dies, he says it's super cold, so that would account for Jon feeling cold instead of the fourth blade.
It would be pretty miraculous to survive being stabbed in the belly and between the shoulder blades and presumably more places, though. I don't think they even have a proper maester at Castle Black right now. So how would Jon's body be salvaged? Maybe he is reborn in another body, and that's the consequence? ( I hope not)
"Of course the tv series took out Robb's last words of 'Greywind' and replaced it with 'Mother'. Not sure what that means as far as the warg front..."
I think Robb saying 'Grey Wind' was just sort of an Easter Egg in the book (especially if we do find out that Jon warged when he said Ghost, that would make it fairly obvious what happened to Robb on a re-read of the series.) If they did it in the show, they'd either have to cut Grey Wind's death or tried to make a fight scene with him.
Also:
Screenshots from the finale (includes spoilers. creepy.):
http://imgur.com/a/5Ueb1#0
Oh, regarding the theory from Book 1, I've been on board with that, too. But at this point it's such a popular theory that I feel like G. R. R. Martin won't make it happen. Has anyone read this link talking about the theory yet? http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html Warning, the page may include spoilers, especially if you go to the other pages. I think you actually have to select where you are in the book to even see the post - to see it, click the brown bar at the top that says "scope" and select "A Storm of Swords". I don't THINK I read any spoilers during my first read because I was caught up with the snow... but maybe there were small ones?
Just realized I have to deselect the "automatically parse links in text" option to make it invisible, so the url isn't clickable. Sorry!
Just realized I have to deselect the "automatically parse links in text" option to make it invisible, so the url isn't clickable. Sorry!
I didn't see any real spoilers there. The thing is, though, that it still may be a spoiler to a show watcher, because if it's true they're going to have to build it up and reveal it in the show as well... so it could be a really cool/suspenseful/thought-provoking part of the program.
But yeah, that link gives my thoughts and much much more. I feel it's a pretttyy solid theory lol.
I can't remember where the interview was from but I do remember GRRM being asked if any fan-theories were correct and he basically said something to the effect of :
yes there are some correct theories out there. He considered changing the story, but then thought that confirmation will be still satisfying for those who figured it out, the reveal and implications will still be awesome, and even if it's well-accepted on the net... the majority of his readers don't nerd out on the internet and are probably unaware of the theory, or maybe they think everything's a bit fishy but haven't put their finger on it etc.
So no changes were made.
(I'm probably adding some of my own thoughts in there but that was the jist of it...)
But yeah, that link gives my thoughts and much much more. I feel it's a pretttyy solid theory lol.
I can't remember where the interview was from but I do remember GRRM being asked if any fan-theories were correct and he basically said something to the effect of :
yes there are some correct theories out there. He considered changing the story, but then thought that confirmation will be still satisfying for those who figured it out, the reveal and implications will still be awesome, and even if it's well-accepted on the net... the majority of his readers don't nerd out on the internet and are probably unaware of the theory, or maybe they think everything's a bit fishy but haven't put their finger on it etc.
So no changes were made.
(I'm probably adding some of my own thoughts in there but that was the jist of it...)
Finale spoilers below, I'm not whiting them out and if you're not up to date you should leave and come back when you've seen the finale!!
Me too! She's good in the books and she's good in the show. I like the way she looks in the show as well! Lots of people were pissed that's she wasn't beautiful and chic. Blah! Being a knock out is rare. Not every woman of interest is a knock out. Get over it.
(the only thing I didn't like is her as a blond. She looks ace in the dark hair imo)
Yeah. So, Arya and Sandor, strange scene, he walks right past the Freys like there's no threat? And the Freys don't stop a man in full armor? And Arya hops off the horse and runs up to them and he just lets her? Not keeping the post-RW tone in the novel but that may come. Nice to see a bit of action there, especially on Arya's part.
Speaking of the horse, that poor animal's neck is going to be destroyed by the time they (small book event) find the sorrel mare Craven. I guess it's easier for the actors to interact this way, plus I suppose it might be a bit sexually tense if Arya was squashed between Sandor's pelvis and the pommel. But it looks bizarre. :lol-sign:
Uhm, Jon getting shot like 3 times in the leg and back and ?? Is this still supposed to be analogous to what happens in the book? That seems like an awful lot of wounds.
I feel there was some Stannis character assassination going on there.
Joffrey v Tywin, good stuff. Show Joffrey and show Tywin are sooo much better than their book counterparts. Gleeson is a great actor.
Tyrion and Sansa are sort of hitting it off (or they were before the news). I hope we get the pease scene.
Yeah... I feel that could've been better. I get why it was the final scene... Dany is obviously a huge player and this is a very significant part of her development, but it was a bit cliche or something. Eh.
Me too! She's good in the books and she's good in the show. I like the way she looks in the show as well! Lots of people were pissed that's she wasn't beautiful and chic. Blah! Being a knock out is rare. Not every woman of interest is a knock out. Get over it.
(the only thing I didn't like is her as a blond. She looks ace in the dark hair imo)
Yeah. So, Arya and Sandor, strange scene, he walks right past the Freys like there's no threat? And the Freys don't stop a man in full armor? And Arya hops off the horse and runs up to them and he just lets her? Not keeping the post-RW tone in the novel but that may come. Nice to see a bit of action there, especially on Arya's part.
Speaking of the horse, that poor animal's neck is going to be destroyed by the time they (small book event) find the sorrel mare Craven. I guess it's easier for the actors to interact this way, plus I suppose it might be a bit sexually tense if Arya was squashed between Sandor's pelvis and the pommel. But it looks bizarre. :lol-sign:
Uhm, Jon getting shot like 3 times in the leg and back and ?? Is this still supposed to be analogous to what happens in the book? That seems like an awful lot of wounds.
I feel there was some Stannis character assassination going on there.
Joffrey v Tywin, good stuff. Show Joffrey and show Tywin are sooo much better than their book counterparts. Gleeson is a great actor.
Tyrion and Sansa are sort of hitting it off (or they were before the news). I hope we get the pease scene.
Yeah... I feel that could've been better. I get why it was the final scene... Dany is obviously a huge player and this is a very significant part of her development, but it was a bit cliche or something. Eh.
ALSO POSTING SEASON FINALE SPOILERS. JUST WATCH IT GUYS. LIKE RIGHT NOW. It was a great episode!
Is Yara/Asha supposed to be clasically gorgeous in the books? As a non book reader I think she's perfect for the role. A strong, completely badass woman who has earned the respect and loyalty of her men. She looks like an Ironborn!!
I really liked seeing Arya cut into the Frey guy. I think the writers had to give the viewers that bit of satisfaction after witnessing what Arya had to see in the opening scene. I agree that it makes no sense once you think about it, but the moment they showed the Freys I was cheering for the Hound and Arya to kill them. Oh, and I did remember someone else bringing up the Arya riding side-saddle thing, and I do think it's just the general awkwardness of a teenage girl riding in front of a guy who's sitting on 80% of the horse already LOL But yeah, a little weird.
Poor Jon. But holy crap, yay for reuniting with Pip and Sam!
And I adore Shireen, and the Onion Knight. Ser Davos is such a good guy, he better make it through this series. PLEASE. I'm really glad he helped Gendry escape.
Hahahaha, oh my goodness, that LOOK on Joffrey's face in his scene. So gleeful and pleased with himself and oh so punchable. He really is an amazing actor, he's great with both the overt and subtle changes in facial expression and delivery. It was also hilarious to see him while rewatching Batman:
Tywin is fantastic as well. Easily one of my favorites, as a character in the show and in terms of casting (Charles Dance is so perfect).
And oh yeah, I do love Dany and I always like seeing the dragons, but it was a great episode (not to mention, the episode following the Red Wedding and the last scene of the season finale...), so I wish they ended with something that would leave more of an impact. A heartwarming scene, but I wanted mooooreeeee.
Is Yara/Asha supposed to be clasically gorgeous in the books? As a non book reader I think she's perfect for the role. A strong, completely badass woman who has earned the respect and loyalty of her men. She looks like an Ironborn!!
I really liked seeing Arya cut into the Frey guy. I think the writers had to give the viewers that bit of satisfaction after witnessing what Arya had to see in the opening scene. I agree that it makes no sense once you think about it, but the moment they showed the Freys I was cheering for the Hound and Arya to kill them. Oh, and I did remember someone else bringing up the Arya riding side-saddle thing, and I do think it's just the general awkwardness of a teenage girl riding in front of a guy who's sitting on 80% of the horse already LOL But yeah, a little weird.
Poor Jon. But holy crap, yay for reuniting with Pip and Sam!
And I adore Shireen, and the Onion Knight. Ser Davos is such a good guy, he better make it through this series. PLEASE. I'm really glad he helped Gendry escape.
Hahahaha, oh my goodness, that LOOK on Joffrey's face in his scene. So gleeful and pleased with himself and oh so punchable. He really is an amazing actor, he's great with both the overt and subtle changes in facial expression and delivery. It was also hilarious to see him while rewatching Batman:
Tywin is fantastic as well. Easily one of my favorites, as a character in the show and in terms of casting (Charles Dance is so perfect).
And oh yeah, I do love Dany and I always like seeing the dragons, but it was a great episode (not to mention, the episode following the Red Wedding and the last scene of the season finale...), so I wish they ended with something that would leave more of an impact. A heartwarming scene, but I wanted mooooreeeee.
I'm not watching the finale until tonight, so I'm skipping the last couple of pages of this thread
Just wanted to drop in and share this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg
It's pretty entertaining :lol-sign:
Just wanted to drop in and share this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg
It's pretty entertaining :lol-sign:
I'm not watching the finale until tonight, so I'm skipping the last couple of pages of this thread
Just wanted to drop in and share this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg
It's pretty entertaining :lol-sign:
Just wanted to drop in and share this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg
It's pretty entertaining :lol-sign:
"We had CAVE SEX!!!" ooooohhhh my god.
I just finished the last episode. I guess I had myself all worked up this this great finale and I was kind of disappointed. Oh well... Still good though.
I cringe every times a Theon scene comes on. That guy torturing him is just wicked. lol
I think I really like the Tyrion/Sansa interactions. Tyrion is so sweet.
Two people I cannot stand! Stannis and Joffrey. Not really sure why I don't like Stannis but he's just not appealing to me as a character and I feel his scenes are a bit boring.
I cringe every times a Theon scene comes on. That guy torturing him is just wicked. lol
I think I really like the Tyrion/Sansa interactions. Tyrion is so sweet.
Two people I cannot stand! Stannis and Joffrey. Not really sure why I don't like Stannis but he's just not appealing to me as a character and I feel his scenes are a bit boring.
Me too. I admit I started out kind of automatically disliking her because she's a Greyjoy (I know, I know) but she's turned into a pretty admirable character.
And uh. You guys are probably going to think I'm some kind of psychopath for saying this, but I like Ramsay way more than I should. I know the Ramsay/Theon scenes are probably supposed to be shocking and hard to watch, but I find them kind of funny. That's probably just because I have close to zero respect for Theon, though.
Overall I thought it was a good finale. Really liking the Tyrion/Sana friendship, and Tywin sending Joffrey to his room was a nice touch. I have to say the last scene didn't really do it for me either - as much as I love Dani, I couldn't really take the whole crowdsurfing thing seriously, haha.
Gendry, don't fall out of your boat.
Oh, and "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Gah.
And if you guys haven't seen this, watch George R.R. Martin talk about some serious Season 4 spoilers (trust me, just watch it):
http://teamcoco.com/video/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-spoilers
And uh. You guys are probably going to think I'm some kind of psychopath for saying this, but I like Ramsay way more than I should. I know the Ramsay/Theon scenes are probably supposed to be shocking and hard to watch, but I find them kind of funny. That's probably just because I have close to zero respect for Theon, though.
Overall I thought it was a good finale. Really liking the Tyrion/Sana friendship, and Tywin sending Joffrey to his room was a nice touch. I have to say the last scene didn't really do it for me either - as much as I love Dani, I couldn't really take the whole crowdsurfing thing seriously, haha.
Gendry, don't fall out of your boat.
Oh, and "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Gah.
And if you guys haven't seen this, watch George R.R. Martin talk about some serious Season 4 spoilers (trust me, just watch it):
http://teamcoco.com/video/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-spoilers
more finale spoilers ahead, peoples!
I think I liked her because the other Greyjoys were so awful! After a couple scenes I was just thinking "what a bro!". Just seemed like an all around awesome person to have on your side.
:rofl1: No, no I love Ramsay LOL The actor is fantastic, I actually went to watch all the seasons of Misfits just for that actor. He has the psychotic personality (and those CRAZY EYES) down pat.
Probably even more evil than Joffrey, but if I'm not cringing during his scenes with Theon, I'm laughing. And I won't lie, I like see Joffrey getting screen time, too. Hate the character, love the acting and something interesting always happens during his scenes.
Definitely not a fan of Theon, but my heart did break a little (a lot) with his "my real father died in King's Landing" line
LOL yeah, the crowd surfing was a bit too much. Dany's my favorite contender for the throne (and she was even before Robb kicked it) but, ehhhhhhh. It was nice, but completely anticlimatic.
I remember this, I watched it just the other day :rofl1:
New favorite character! TONY OF HOUSE STARK.
I think I liked her because the other Greyjoys were so awful! After a couple scenes I was just thinking "what a bro!". Just seemed like an all around awesome person to have on your side.
:rofl1: No, no I love Ramsay LOL The actor is fantastic, I actually went to watch all the seasons of Misfits just for that actor. He has the psychotic personality (and those CRAZY EYES) down pat.
Probably even more evil than Joffrey, but if I'm not cringing during his scenes with Theon, I'm laughing. And I won't lie, I like see Joffrey getting screen time, too. Hate the character, love the acting and something interesting always happens during his scenes.
Definitely not a fan of Theon, but my heart did break a little (a lot) with his "my real father died in King's Landing" line
LOL yeah, the crowd surfing was a bit too much. Dany's my favorite contender for the throne (and she was even before Robb kicked it) but, ehhhhhhh. It was nice, but completely anticlimatic.
I remember this, I watched it just the other day :rofl1:
New favorite character! TONY OF HOUSE STARK.