Article on some new USDA information

Tahla9999

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#82
I spent the ages of nine to fourteen studying for the contingency of joining a rebel force and restoring the rightful government, I for one am prepared (at 15 I went on a sci-fi kick and started preparing for first contact. Have spacesuit, will travel!)
I've heard of this quite a bit and I'm really curious to ask the preparers of such rebellion. What is the "rightful" government in your eyes? Why do you think this new government will be better than the old one? What about the people who are loyal to the past government, or what about the American people who also rebelled but they have a completely different idea of how they want the government to run that counters other rebels ideas? What if you have a large majority of Americans who rebelled and win against the old government to place it with a new, but you have groups rebelling for completely different reasons why you are rebelling? How is the "new" politicians going to be different from the old ones? Ask the people in "new" Egypt and Libya if their new replace government is better than the old.

I also want to say I find it "funny" how people think having guns will protect them from the government, or anyone really. How they think that having guns make them a harder target. Guns are not shields. Most people are smart enough to know that if they want to kill someone with a gun, all they have to do is catch you off guard. You can carry your gun everywhere with you, if someone is planning on shooting you dead, they are going to do it in a way where your not expecting it. Its not like people do it in the old old west where you face off each other with guns. And if the government is going to off you, I would THINK they would do it in a way where it would look like a freak accident. Your walking across the street and a bus with no passengers happened to malfunction and hit you, or they poisoned your food and make it seem like ate something bad by mistake. So if the government is out to get you, your dead meat. No need to prepare for a fight of your life, your just dead.

I don't believe that the government is out to get its people, but just for those who do.
 

Romy

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#83
FWIW, I do think our food supply is designed to make us sick on purpose.

I don't think they're planning a secret food based mass genocide/extinction of American citizens. But making us sick makes them more $$$.

Look at Monsanto. Just look at all the **** they have dumped into the world to turn a profit. Back in 2000-ish they merged with Pharmacia and Upjohn to become the world's largest biotech and pharmaceutical company on the planet.

Their top officials are deeply embedded in the FDA, USDA, etc. at high levels. The current senior adviser for the FDA is the former vice president of Monsanto. The fox is watching the hen house.

So they make food and pesticides. Said food and pesticides make us increasingly ill. They manufacture drugs to treat symptoms, and drugs to treat the side effects of the symptoms of the first drugs, etc. etc.

This year they bought out a big portion of the home garden seed market. I don't think they'll start selling GMO seed to home gardeners or anything, but I won't be surprised if they start to discontinue open pollinated varieties and only sell trademarked hybrids that will be worthless for saving seed. It wouldn't be unwise for people to learn how to save/start seed now, and start building up a small supply of basics.

Anyway, if it doesn't say otherwise I assume anything containing corn, soy, canola, or beet sugar is GMO by default. Most of that stuff I eat is organic. I get organic and or grass fed dairy and meat for my family. Preference is on grass fed actually, but if they're already off grain most farmers go the extra step to become certified organic anyway.

Eventually I plan to get a little spread and grow my own corn and veggies. Keep dairy/meat sheep, bunnehs, and some poultry and a catfish or trout pond (depending on the local water quality).
 

sillysally

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#84
I've heard of this quite a bit and I'm really curious to ask the preparers of such rebellion. What is the "rightful" government in your eyes? Why do you think this new government will be better than the old one? What about the people who are loyal to the past government, or what about the American people who also rebelled but they have a completely different idea of how they want the government to run that counters other rebels ideas? What if you have a large majority of Americans who rebelled and win against the old government to place it with a new, but you have groups rebelling for completely different reasons why you are rebelling? How is the "new" politicians going to be different from the old ones? Ask the people in "new" Egypt and Libya if their new replace government is better than the old.

I also want to say I find it "funny" how people think having guns will protect them from the government, or anyone really. How they think that having guns make them a harder target. Guns are not shields. Most people are smart enough to know that if they want to kill someone with a gun, all they have to do is catch you off guard. You can carry your gun everywhere with you, if someone is planning on shooting you dead, they are going to do it in a way where your not expecting it. Its not like people do it in the old old west where you face off each other with guns. And if the government is going to off you, I would THINK they would do it in a way where it would look like a freak accident. Your walking across the street and a bus with no passengers happened to malfunction and hit you, or they poisoned your food and make it seem like ate something bad by mistake. So if the government is out to get you, your dead meat. No need to prepare for a fight of your life, your just dead.

I don't believe that the government is out to get its people, but just for those who do.
If everyone thought like this we would likely still be loyal to the Queen.....Just saying...
 

sillysally

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#85
FWIW, I do think our food supply is designed to make us sick on purpose.

I don't think they're planning a secret food based mass genocide/extinction of American citizens. But making us sick makes them more $$$.

Look at Monsanto. Just look at all the **** they have dumped into the world to turn a profit. Back in 2000-ish they merged with Pharmacia and Upjohn to become the world's largest biotech and pharmaceutical company on the planet.

Their top officials are deeply embedded in the FDA, USDA, etc. at high levels. The current senior adviser for the FDA is the former vice president of Monsanto. The fox is watching the hen house.

So they make food and pesticides. Said food and pesticides make us increasingly ill. They manufacture drugs to treat symptoms, and drugs to treat the side effects of the symptoms of the first drugs, etc. etc.

This year they bought out a big portion of the home garden seed market. I don't think they'll start selling GMO seed to home gardeners or anything, but I won't be surprised if they start to discontinue open pollinated varieties and only sell trademarked hybrids that will be worthless for saving seed. It wouldn't be unwise for people to learn how to save/start seed now, and start building up a small supply of basics.

Anyway, if it doesn't say otherwise I assume anything containing corn, soy, canola, or beet sugar is GMO by default. Most of that stuff I eat is organic. I get organic and or grass fed dairy and meat for my family. Preference is on grass fed actually, but if they're already off grain most farmers go the extra step to become certified organic anyway.

Eventually I plan to get a little spread and grow my own corn and veggies. Keep dairy/meat sheep, bunnehs, and some poultry and a catfish or trout pond (depending on the local water quality).
:hail:
 

Tahla9999

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#86
If everyone thought like this we would likely still be loyal to the Queen.....Just saying...

Actually, I believe that the new government will become just like the old one fast because I think the government we have now is one of the best representation of democratic government can be( unlike the past where we were just a colony to the Queen). People in America have vastly different opinions from each other and all want to be represented. It more than likely going to be split into democrats and republicans, but will probably be called something else to show its "newness. There are going to be things the new democrats wont like that the republicans do like, and things that the new republicans don't like but the democrats do like. The idea that the American people will all come together behind this "new" government is utterly laughable. It will just be broken into parties who all have a vastly different ideas of where they want the country to go.

ETA Ex. 1. Will the new US government have no gun control laws? I for one, want more gun control and so does millions of other Americans. Even if I get behind a new US, my opinion on that will not change.There will be a gun debate in the new US as they are doing now because while the government might change, the people would not.
 
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#87
Elaborate conspiracies that require innumerable members of disparate industries (agriculture and pharmaceuticals, for instance) to work together are too far from Occam's Razor for me to buy them. People are greedy and back-stabbing enough within their own companies and industries that there's no way I see them playing nicely together long enough to pull anything off on purpose, even if they are owned by the same parent company. Such a conspiracy relies on FAR too many people to keep their mouths shut to make it likely IMO.

I find it much more likely that the individual companies just happen to not give a sh!t about the consequences of their ever-escalating chase after lower costs and higher profits.
 

Romy

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#90
Elaborate conspiracies that require innumerable members of disparate industries (agriculture and pharmaceuticals, for instance) to work together are too far from Occam's Razor for me to buy them. People are greedy and back-stabbing enough within their own companies and industries that there's no way I see them playing nicely together long enough to pull anything off on purpose, even if they are owned by the same parent company. Such a conspiracy relies on FAR too many people to keep their mouths shut to make it likely IMO.

I find it much more likely that the individual companies just happen to not give a sh!t about the consequences of their ever-escalating chase after lower costs and higher profits.
They put their relationships with pharma companies in black and white, right on the Monsanto website so it's not like there's some mysterious guessing conspiracy game. But then they're all owned by the same handful of people, it doesn't matter what anyone else in the company knows if those guys have their own agenda.

The other thing is, they AREN'T keeping their mouth shut. They just don't care because nobody can touch them. It's all out there in the open. Countries across the world are banning imported ag products from the USA left and right (Russia for example) and others are banning specifically any GMOs and products of Monsanto.
 
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#91
And therefore it sometimes pays to think outside the status quo box. I'm not saying overthrow the government, but moving forward as a society requires radical thinkers, thinkers that question the status quo.
I guess my question should have been, "so what?" I'm not sure the American Revolution was very much about "moving forward" as a society, nor do I think we'd necessarily be worse off if it hadn't happened.

Don't get me wrong, I actually do think we're a great nation. But everything would probably still be ok if we were still loyal to the Queen, too.
 
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#92
They put their relationships with pharma companies in black and white, right on the Monsanto website so it's not like there's some mysterious guessing conspiracy game. But then they're all owned by the same handful of people, it doesn't matter what anyone else in the company knows if those guys have their own agenda.

The other thing is, they AREN'T keeping their mouth shut. They just don't care because nobody can touch them. It's all out there in the open. Countries across the world are banning imported ag products from the USA left and right (Russia for example) and others are banning specifically any GMOs and products of Monsanto.
There's difference between having a relationship and running an elaborate conspiracy together.

If countries across the world jumped off the Empire State Building, would you? :p My grandmother refused to use a microwave because she believed it would radiate her to eat food cooked in one. It doesn't mean she was right, just scared.

Having said that, I'm fairly undecided either way about GMOs at this point, honestly. Right now I'm more concerned about stuff like the use of more herbicide for herbicide resistant GMOs than the actual foodstuffs themselves.

But I still think it's the same old short-sighted human nature at work that it always has been - profit now, deal with the consequences later. There's really no need for a conspiracy as long as people are greedy bastards... it used to be acid rain and the ozone layer and superfund sites, now it's herbicides. There's really no need for a conspiracy when companies are willing to do crappy things all on their own just for short term gain with or without a co-conspirator involved.
 

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#93
I guess my question should have been, "so what?" I'm not sure the American Revolution was very much about "moving forward" as a society, nor do I think we'd necessarily be worse off if it hadn't happened.

Don't get me wrong, I actually do think we're a great nation. But everything would probably still be ok if we were still loyal to the Queen, too.
I suppose I just look at it differently then, I consider an independent US to be an improvement (no offense meant to UK members). Plus, while I do get bothered by our justice system sometimes, I still think it's the best in the world.

ETA: It's kind of funny that this thread came up now, we were at the farmers market and they had a flyer about a GMO meeting at the public library this afternoon and we are headed there now-lol.
 

Romy

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#94
I think you're right that it started out as a short term gain situation. However, Monsanto has been around a long time (they're responsible for DDT, Agent Orange, being in charge of the Manhattan Project and responsible for the Texas City Disaster all the way back in 1947). Companies don't last as long as they have without long term strategies.

If they see that their product is having a particular negative effect (ruining people's health), then business-wise, what is the move that will make the most money? Is it to own up to the problem and pay for clean up and reparations? That's the right thing to do, but they will never do it. They didn't do it for the 500,000 Vietnamese people killed or born severely deformed by Agent Orange, or the American veterans whose health has been ruined by the exposure or their children who suffer from the effects of their father's exposure.

What will make the most money is:

1. Denying there's an problem

2. Calling everyone who insists there's a problem crazy, delusional, or a conspiracy theorist

3. Paying money to stop studies being done that would prove your product is unsafe, and paying money to have your own slanted studies done.

4. See who profits from the problem and invest in them to make even MORE money. In this case, the pharmaceutical industry profits from people getting sick, so they invested in them. Now they have a vested interest in making/keeping people sick.

It's not that far of a stretch, and not out of line at all with their past actions and business strategies. Their executives are deeply entrenched in our government to the point now where they've gotten legal immunity for a lot of things, which is just wrong on so many levels.
 

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#97
Well, I went to the GMO talk and was very disappointed in the speaker. She lost me at "GMO meat chickens cannot urinate and the urine goes back up into their bodies and that's why the meat tastes good." o_O Ummmm....what??
 

Romy

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#98
Well, I went to the GMO talk and was very disappointed in the speaker. She lost me at "GMO meat chickens cannot urinate and the urine goes back up into their bodies and that's why the meat tastes good." o_O Ummmm....what??
Whut? lol.

We don't have GMO meat chickens. We have normal chickens that are fed GMO corn and soy. Silly speaker. :rofl1:

ETA: and no chickens can urinate. Ah well.
 

sillysally

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#99
Whut? lol.

We don't have GMO meat chickens. We have normal chickens that are fed GMO corn and soy. Silly speaker. :rofl1:

ETA: and no chickens can urinate. Ah well.
She also said that she recommends not eating with metal utensils because it can cause heavy metal poisoning ("You can taste the metallic heavy metal taste when you eat) and instead opts for plastic utensils. That was an hour and a half of my life I'll never get back...
 
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it's a good thing I carve out wooden spoons and forks :D It's too bad an avenue with legitimate concerns often gets taken over by extremists. We may not have GMO chicken meat, but we have, or will soon have GMO salmon. A nice atlantic salmon spliced with genes from an eel so it will grow year round on a diet of corn and it doesn't even need a label.
 

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