The Venting Thread

DJEtzel

Active Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
3,267
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
My vent is... Omg basements are hard/creepy to clean. But we are about to have so much more space for crating dogs and BFs grow tents!

Just sucks because the ceiling is low and I have to be all bent over moving boxes and sweeping. My back is on fire already.
 

Picklepaige

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
1,802
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Mississippi
Horse people are so infuriating. It is impossible to even bring up the mere IDEA of clicker training without them calling all their lackeys are swarming me with "BUT UR SPOILING UR HORSE BY REWARDING HIM FOR SOMETHING HE IS EXPECTED TO DO OMG STOOPID HEAD"
 

Dogdragoness

Happy Halloween!!
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
4,169
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Gillett/Flower Mound TX
Horse people are so infuriating. It is impossible to even bring up the mere IDEA of clicker training without them calling all their lackeys are swarming me with "BUT UR SPOILING UR HORSE BY REWARDING HIM FOR SOMETHING HE IS EXPECTED TO DO OMG STOOPID HEAD"
Sorry but I have to say I agree, I don't want a 1000 lb animal all up in my business.

Before you bring up wild/zoo animals let me say they use those because they have no other choice! A wild animal is still wild! A horse/dog/cat/cow whatever is a DOMESTICATED animal an animal you CAN work closely with so sometimes clicker training is MORE risky with a large animal that you have to be in close contact with.

I prefer to use methods like Clinton Anderson uses , they aren't cruel but they Re based on how horses naturally communicate with one another.
 

Beanie

Clicker Cult Coordinator
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
14,012
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
39
Location
Illinois
Sorry but I have to say I agree, I don't want a 1000 lb animal all up in my business.
We've had this conversation before and you don't understand how clicker training works. Guessing neither do these people and that's why they're reacting the same way you are.
People almost always react poorly to what they don't understand.


My back is killing me after all the shoveling, I'm exhausted, I think I'm going to just take a nice hot muscle soak. Then a nap.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
3,199
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
St. Louis, MO
We've had this conversation before and you don't understand how clicker training works. Guessing neither do these people and that's why they're reacting the same way you are.
People almost always react poorly to what they don't understand.


.
Exactly.

I know its not the norm in the horse world but there are PLENTY of very experienced horse people who have fab results with clicker training. People who dont understand how it works are just the loudest in many areas.
 

sillysally

Obey the Toad.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,074
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
A hole in the bottom of the sea.
It does matter. You quoted and said you can get a dog from a good breeder for $100... but... you were talking about your previous dog, who, from all you have said about her breeder, didn't come from a good one. Not saying there's anything wrong with her, just that that sort of breeder is not the responsible type that the OP of the topic is looking for.



Not to do extensive health testing, yes. And I don't completely agree with that anyway (see the post from crazedACDs "get out of jail free card") but this breeder didn't do ANY health testing. If they aren't making sure the dogs they're breeding are healthy, I can't assume they actually paid for a real hearing test, even. And at that, I don't think it's responsible to breed them no matter how well they may work if they may be ridden with genetic issues.



The poster has shared MORE than enough info to steer almost anyone here away from their breeder, I think that is a fair idea to grasp. They don't health test, and don't do anything except work. I don't consider that a well bred dog, personally, and most here wouldn't either. I don't expect everything under the sun to be covered, but I would expect the basics to be covered to be considered even halfway responsible.
Ok, I get the health testing, but why is it wrong for a breeder to not do anything except work with their dogs?
 

Dizzy

Sit! Good dog.
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Messages
17,761
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Wales
We Europeans like sharing as well.

In other words - WTF is wrong with the world. We had a snow storm last week that caused 150 car pile-ups on the autobahn. :mad: ITS SPRING. ITS ALMOST APRIL. I'm still wearing my stupid winter jacket. -.- Last year it was in the 70s.

Easter will be colder than Christmas. This is wrong. Global warming is a lie lol :p
16 foot snow drifts here, and parts of Scotland have been without power for days.

Insane amount of snow for this time of year. Or any time of year!! So pretty though :D
 

sillysally

Obey the Toad.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,074
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
A hole in the bottom of the sea.
Sorry but I have to say I agree, I don't want a 1000 lb animal all up in my business.

Before you bring up wild/zoo animals let me say they use those because they have no other choice! A wild animal is still wild! A horse/dog/cat/cow whatever is a DOMESTICATED animal an animal you CAN work closely with so sometimes clicker training is MORE risky with a large animal that you have to be in close contact with.

I prefer to use methods like Clinton Anderson uses , they aren't cruel but they Re based on how horses naturally communicate with one another.
I'm going to see a Clinton Anderson clinic this summer. I'm generally a fan of natural horsemanship methods. I wouldn't rule out clicker training a horse, I've just never had a need to.
 

meepitsmeagan

Meagan & The Cattle Dog Crew
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
3,378
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Michigan
I'm going to see a Clinton Anderson clinic this summer. I'm generally a fan of natural horsemanship methods. I wouldn't rule out clicker training a horse, I've just never had a need to.
I've been to two Clinton clinics to audit, and had almost two years of work with a very good trainer who used his methods. They were great for turning my unruly three year old around. Haha. I really like him, though I use mainly his ground work and colt-starting. After that, I pretty much go off on my own.

My vent. I have to pee, do dishes, switch out laundry, and rotate the girls. However, I don't want to get off the couch.
 

Saeleofu

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,036
Likes
0
Points
36
Before you bring up wild/zoo animals let me say they use those because they have no other choice!
That is bullshit. Most zoos actually use minimal clicker training, not because they don't want to, but because they don't have the staff for it. Most zoos are grossly understaffed due to low budgets. Most dangerous animals are never handled without a barrier between the keeper and the animal. They learn to shift so you can clean exhibits/stalls, but it's a waiting game until they figure it out. The reason zoos use a clicker is because it's enriching and it WORKS. It is NOT because they have no choice.
 

Julee

UNSTOPPABLE
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
3,418
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Kent, CT
We've had this conversation before and you don't understand how clicker training works. Guessing neither do these people and that's why they're reacting the same way you are.
People almost always react poorly to what they don't understand.
<3 Beanie.
 

Dogdragoness

Happy Halloween!!
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
4,169
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Gillett/Flower Mound TX
Oh I know it works, I just don't feel comfortable using it with horses.

Maybe the zoos in your area don't but here we have some really good zoos that use enriching tools as well as clicker training!

Clicker training is an OPTION for horses ... IMO not the best option!

Pro clicker training people IMO (as a neutral party on the whole deal, I don't subscribe to any one method) are the ones who push it as "the one, only & BEST way" to train any animals when for some ppl & animals, it is not.
 

Saeleofu

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,036
Likes
0
Points
36
Maybe the zoos in your area don't but here we have some really good zoos that use enriching tools as well as clicker training!
So, you know for a fact that they use a LOT of clicker training? Because the average person thinks my zoo uses a TON of clicker training, when in reality we just tell the public a LOT about the little training we're able to do.

Zoos are very different from the inside. Thanks for insinuating I work at a shitty zoo, but that couldn't be further from the truth. FWIW our elephants aren't clicker trained, but they are still highly trained. We also enrich most animals at least once a day, and many of them several times a day. Even our cockroaches get enrichment daily.
 

AdrianneIsabel

Glutton for Crazy
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
8,893
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Portland, Oregon
I presume it's a fantastic method for training many tasks, likely not every aspect of animal husbandry for any species but many. Why would you have to use the same method across the board? I clicker train but some things benefit from aversion and some from luring.

The worst seems to be the closed mind.
 

meepitsmeagan

Meagan & The Cattle Dog Crew
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
3,378
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Michigan
Clicker training is an OPTION for horses ... IMO not the best option!

Pro clicker training people IMO (as a neutral party on the whole deal, I don't subscribe to any one method) are the ones who push it as "the one, only & BEST way" to train any animals when for some ppl & animals, it is not.
I just wanted to say that I disagree with ^this. I am pro clicker training, for both horses AND dogs. However, it is not the only tool I use for either. When you talk about not being close minded to new options, that means you have to be open to anything (within reason). Have you tried clicker training with horses? Would it work for every situation? No, it wouldn't. However, it could work very well for teaching to accept the halter, teaching to lead, teaching to square up, teaching to accept a bridle, a saddle, probably a lot of desensitization. There are so many options for teaching everything! As long as you are creating a positive environment, there is no reason that more than one thing cannot work. One size does not fit all with ANY animal.

And on the subject of working breeder and not health testing. I agree with crazed. Just because a dog comes from working parents does NOT mean the dog shouldn't be health tested for things that COMMONLY GO WRONG IN THE BREED. For example, ACD's. Since they are "my" breed, and I've done hours and hours of research on them, I will hit them. Progressive Retinal Atrophy, hips, knees, and hearing are ALL things that should be health tested. Just because a dog can work it's a$$ off with cattle doesn't mean that it is healthy in all these areas. He could have super poor hips, but because the breed is tough as nails, never really show it until they fail miserably. He could be a carrier for PRA, and be bred to a carrier or PRA, but because they didn't health test for PRA, NOBODY KNEW and now you are going to end up with a litter stock freakin' full of carriers and PRA affected dogs. And guess what? YOU CAN'T WORK CATTLE EFFECTIVELY WITH A BLIND DOG. Also, just because a dog can work cattle fantastically doesn't mean they have a stable temperament. Good breeders breed to better the breed in all aspects, and choose dogs who bring something to the table that the mate doesn't excel in, or has a compliment to a conformation weakness.

I'm not saying that every single breeder who breeds un-tested dogs are terrible and should end up in hell and can't produce a good dog. However, they are still BYB, and if you are dog knowledgeable, it is still pretty darn unacceptable in most cases to buy from them. Also, it is not impossible (in the breed I am specifically talking about especially) to find a breeder who has stellar working dogs who are health tested.

Sorry this became a book.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top