"_____" breed is not like other dogs!

BeachBum

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I don't mind if people think their breed is special, or poops magic potions even and I don't mind if they try to warn other people of the difficulties of said breed. I think it's great that they care so much about their dogs. To tell you the truth, I wish more people felt this way, it's certainly better than the owners who think the dog is just a toy for the kids that they get rid of when the novelty wears off.

What I do have a problem with is the elitist attitude some owners seem to have about their breed. I can't say I see that attitude on Chaz, but it's rather prevalent on some breed specific forums. People who feel that all dogs who aren't breed X from such and such working lines, are just plain useless and have no purpose or reason to exist, really tick me off. IMHO, being a companion/pet dog is a useful and necessary purpose.
 

Laurelin

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I know my family members really do gage how 'good' a dog is by how it stacks up to their 'good old labs'. They're pretty typical dog owners in this neck of the woods imo. It drives me crazy because I do not like the same style dog they do and they find my dogs and the breeds I like to be very high maintenance and obnoxious. It really comes down to the fact that 1) we like different things in dogs and 2) I have a very much more dog-centric lifestyle than they do so the 'high maintenance' breeds are not high maintenance to me.

I do think there is a reason that I am honest to goodness the only person in my family that would actually want to live with Mia or a dog like Mia. And while all papillons (or even most) are not like Mia, I see breeds where there are a lot of 'Mias' that 99% of people I know would really not like them. There are some dogs that are just very needy and very busy. Mia's saving grace is her size but a big dog like her would overwhelm almost everyone I know, heck her 7 lb version overwhelms most I know. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking someone to really think it through because owning a dog like this can be a chore if you are really rather looking for a typical 'good old family dog'.
 

yoko

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For me I don't see a problem giving legitimate advice and giving pros and cons to a breed. But when someone goes out of their way to only list cons and someone mentions it sounds like no one can own it and the person is like 'yeah they aren't for everyone' leaving the 'except me' unspoken but still there it kind of comes off as elitist IMO.

I know quite a bit more about dogs/dog breeds than most of my friends and family. When they ask me about a breed I'm definitely honest about the cons but I make sure to list the pros as well. Just because I know more doesn't mean I should withhold information and make myself the judge on if someone should get a certain breed or not instead of letting them decide for themselves.

I'm also one of the people who is a pet dog person. I don't show and have no interest in it and I don't really enjoy taking part in most competitions, the cliquey feel just feels way to akin to high school to me. I know I could probably push Yoshi to do decent/good in competitions. She's super motivated and willing to learn and work but for me I understand and recognize how strong a bond with a dog can be and understand that for some people that's enough.

I feel sad that there are people who ARE probably good matches for certain breeds being told the breed isn't for them. A lot of people I know where told that by different breed rescues and most ended up going to BYB because in the BYB they finally found someone who was like 'ok you can have a dog'. If someone is willing to step up and provide a good home I think all of us already in the dog world should be willing to provide them with COMPLETE information to decide on their own.
 

Lyzelle

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I typically don't give complete information. If someone can handle the cons, then I'm happy with that and will gladly give the pros too. But if you cannot handle the cons, then you CANNOT handle the breed, IMO. Too many people think that a dog or a particular breed is only pros, and they *think* they can handle the cons. Most often, not true at all.

Not only that, but I just get sick of cleaning up the messes my friends and family leave behind. I know in 6 months time, they will get tired of the dog and come running to me to do something with it. Again and again.

As a rescuer, I see more dogs are given up because they are "too much dog" than probably any other reason. The majority of people don't have the time or care to properly train a dog, especially a harder dog. It's easy to assume all people are like the people on Chaz, but Chazzers are a very, very small minority in North America.

I think it is very important to be brutally honest with the public when it comes to dog care. Sugar coating things definitely isn't getting us anywhere. If it makes someone think twice about if they can REALLY take care of a dog, or a harder dog, then I'll do it.
 

yoko

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I typically don't give complete information. If someone can handle the cons, then I'm happy with that and will gladly give the pros too. But if you cannot handle the cons, then you CANNOT handle the breed, IMO. Too many people think that a dog or a particular breed is only pros, and they *think* they can handle the cons. Most often, not true at all.

Not only that, but I just get sick of cleaning up the messes my friends and family leave behind. I know in 6 months time, they will get tired of the dog and come running to me to do something with it. Again and again.

As a rescuer, I see more dogs are given up because they are "too much dog" than probably any other reason. The majority of people don't have the time or care to properly train a dog, especially a harder dog. It's easy to assume all people are like the people on Chaz, but Chazzers are a very, very small minority in North America.

I think it is very important to be brutally honest with the public when it comes to dog care. Sugar coating things definitely isn't getting us anywhere. If it makes someone think twice about if they can REALLY take care of a dog, or a harder dog, then I'll do it.
I can understand wanting someone to understand the cons and legitimately think about them before jumping in but I think that it does dogs a disservice to not give out their pros. I mean at what point do you say 'well they are still listening lets give them the rest of in the info'?

I guess for me I got a little jaded helping with breed rescues because I thought their requirements for a rehome were asinine and that they were expecting these flawless god homes for their dogs. So much that the fact was most dogs didn't ever get adopted out or if they did it was after being stuck in the rescue for years and when they were gone the 'rescuers' moaned about how the people didn't go to the lake often enough or the kids were a month too young to have been ok'd.

For me the problem is most people do this for their breed and while they want to say they don't support or contribute to it this attitude of telling people they aren't good enough for your breed does push people to go to BYB.
 

Laurelin

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I do think there is an 'average' dog though too. I think 4 out of 5 of ours fit more or less into the 'average dog' mold. I think it's a wide range of dogs and traits but basically a dog that will be okay when given what an average dog owner/family will give them. Mia would NOT be okay with being raised the way that say... Bernard or Beau was. It's not me trying to be snobby or me saying I'm super special or anything but there are dogs that need a lot more in terms of socialization, exercise, management, etc than the 'average' dog.
 

Lyzelle

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It's more about education, less about being an elitist. It doesn't push people to go to a BYB at all, since that is typically what they will do regardless. It's as pointless as saying "For every dog you don't rescue, a shelter dog dies." People are going to make up their minds regardless, and no matter where they get the dog from, it's important for them to know what they are in for.

People take their flaws too personally. If you aren't fit for a dog, you aren't fit. Get over it, move on, find a dog that will ACTUALLY fit you, and both you and the dog will be so much happier. If you are a lazy bum, don't get a Sibe. If you want a dog that'll go all day long, don't get a Mastiff. Don't feel like putting up a fence or bothering to restrain your dogs properly, don't get a sighthound. People take all of that way too personally, get defensive, get the dog anyway, and then a few months later they are dumping it at some shelter down the road, or just down the road, period.

I do agree some rescues go over the line, but so do many breeders. Many rehomes, many shelters. Those types of people exist everywhere, not just in big name or breed specific Rescues. It really as little to do with it, and is just as much a part of the stereotyping as everything else. It is important to remember a dog or breed can also be disserviced by giving into idiots you KNOW are NOT a suitable home.

Bringing up the cons of the dog/breed and letting people know the worst can protect the dog and the human. If people can deal with the worst in the breed, it can only get better from there.
 

yoko

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I do think there is an 'average' dog though too. I think 4 out of 5 of ours fit more or less into the 'average dog' mold. I think it's a wide range of dogs and traits but basically a dog that will be okay when given what an average dog owner/family will give them. Mia would NOT be okay with being raised the way that say... Bernard or Beau was. It's not me trying to be snobby or me saying I'm super special or anything but there are dogs that need a lot more in terms of socialization, exercise, management, etc than the 'average' dog.
I don't think saying 'this dog is definitely not for you' is a bad thing. But that's not how I ever see it worded. I see 'this breed is not for you. period.' instead of 'It might not be for you. Here's the cons *since people like to say them first* and pros of this breed and here's where you can get some good info. If you do go with this breed you may want to look more at these lines.

I had lady and I don't know many people I would ever have said that she would have been a good dog for. She had so many issues because of her upbringing that most people wouldn't have been able to put enough time into her to make sure she had a happy life. So I definitely see saying 'this dog isn't for you'.

A good example is I have no problem giving an ACD or BC as a pet for someone. I even ended up with a ACD/BC mix. I'd definitely let them know that the ones I have known are busy/active dogs that needed something to do. But I personally, have never met one of these crazy ones with absolutely no off switch like people talk about here. The ones I know will work and are busy all day but they all know when to turn off the go go go switch.
 

yoko

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It's more about education, less about being an elitist. It doesn't push people to go to a BYB at all, since that is typically what they will do regardless. It's as pointless as saying "For every dog you don't rescue, a shelter dog dies." People are going to make up their minds regardless, and no matter where they get the dog from, it's important for them to know what they are in for.

People take their flaws too personally. If you aren't fit for a dog, you aren't fit. Get over it, move on, find a dog that will ACTUALLY fit you, and both you and the dog will be so much happier. If you are a lazy bum, don't get a Sibe. If you want a dog that'll go all day long, don't get a Mastiff. Don't feel like putting up a fence or bothering to restrain your dogs properly, don't get a sighthound. People take all of that way too personally, get defensive, get the dog anyway, and then a few months later they are dumping it at some shelter down the road, or just down the road, period.

I do agree some rescues go over the line, but so do many breeders. Many rehomes, many shelters. Those types of people exist everywhere, not just in big name or breed specific Rescues. It really as little to do with it, and is just as much a part of the stereotyping as everything else. It is important to remember a dog or breed can also be disserviced by giving into idiots you KNOW are NOT a suitable home.

Bringing up the cons of the dog/breed and letting people know the worst can protect the dog and the human. If people can deal with the worst in the breed, it can only get better from there.

I personally don't see it as education if you are knowingly withholding information that can affect a decision.

For me only giving the cons is like telling someone that wants to buy something the advice to only read 1 star reviews and base their decision on just those 1 star reviews.

And like I said I don't have a problem saying this dog isn't for you but I know that even here people have said things like 'maybe working lines would work best for you'. But what I see is 'no this breed is absolutely not right for you. Period. Ever.' And this isn't to people they know these are to random people who just had a question about a breed. Maybe this person is the perfect home for the breed but values the opinion on someone who 'knows more' well that just turned away a great potential home for a dog.
 

Lyzelle

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I don't see it happen, either. I've even asked about certain breeds and started a breed suggestion post. People responded with the cons of the breeds, I said what I did and did not like about said cons, and they pointed me toward the best lines/breeders/rescue that would suit my needs.

I rarely see people say, "Absolutely not." unless it seems quite warranted. Like someone wants a backyard guard dog that is going to be chained the rest of it's life.
 

OwnedByBCs

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A good example is I have no problem giving an ACD or BC as a pet for someone. I even ended up with a ACD/BC mix. I'd definitely let them know that the ones I have known are busy/active dogs that needed something to do. But I personally, have never met one of these crazy ones with absolutely no off switch like people talk about here. The ones I know will work and are busy all day but they all know when to turn off the go go go switch.
Wait, sorry- maybe I misread, but are you saying that you would knowingly suggest a pet home buy an ACD or BC? That is NOT smart. There are SOME BCs that are suitable for pet homes, but the majority of them are NOT. Absolutely not. The type of Border Collie that is great in an average pet home is the ones who really don't think like Border Collies (like, for example, your typical Australian show lines). My dogs are great pets, don't get me wrong. They are sweet, affectionate, and definitely have an off switch, but most people STILL could not handle them.

If a pet home comes to me asking for puppies, I tell them its a pretty slim chance that there will be a suitable puppy for them. My dogs are bred to work, they are not Golden Retrievers.

You have to keep in mind Border Collies (at least, properly bred ones) are bred to work on a farm. Farm-bred dogs rarely leave their property, rarely see other dogs, rarely see other people that they don't know, and rarely have to deal with loud noises or environmental challenges. That is something that we expect them to do now, but they haven't been bred to deal with the urban world. Border Collies most frequently end up in rescue because of the following reasons (by the way, I did BC rescue for 10 years, I know what I'm talking about here): 1. Too energetic/busy/obsessive/neurotic. 2. Bit child/dog/neighbor etc. 3. Barks at everything. 4. Herds other dogs/children etc.

Sorry, but if you ever see a real Border Collie rescue (not just a shelter) in action, you will NEVER recommend that a novice dog owner gets a BC. I hate to play the rescue card because I feel that it is overused, but there really is nothing that makes me more upset or more disappointed than hearing people tell novice pet owners to get Border Collies, then seeing those dogs end up in shelters or rescues. Most Border Collies who go through shelters don't last long, because they become too neurotic in such small spaces that they are un-adoptable.
 

ihartgonzo

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^^ I agree so much, OwnedbyBCs!!! OMFG, Border Collies can go so wrong when they're in the wrong home. Like, chasing their tail 24/7 wrong.

Working with BC rescue, I have seen some of the most deeply disturbed dogs who came from well-meaning, average homes who wanted a "smart dog". They ended up completely screwing up their dog and blaming it on the dog. My friend's family got a BC because they loved my BC, who I put years of work into to get him sane. They are an average family. They had owned Goldens before. They took her to the puppy classes that I demanded they take her to, and didn't practice at home or continue with any other classes. By one year old, she was uncontrollable, would dig out of the yard and run away and was nearly impossible to catch, would run away from them at the dog park to the point that it'd take an hour to get a leash on her & attack other dogs, became neurotically obsessive about balls (as that was the only form of mental or physical exercise she got) and would spend all of her time throwing balls at you, threw a bone at her Mom and broke her nose, would jump all over/on counters, chase her tail, bark at everything, just a dog that no one would want to live with! They immediately went to a shock collar trainer, shocked her for doing ANYTHING, and now they have a creepy fear aggressive biter who barely functions. And they're trying to rehome her. :( I've seen this situation replayed 1000x and I feel so sad that I thought this family was ready & willing to take on a Border Collie. They aren't lazy... they go on walks and play with her on the weekends, which most Goldens would be perfectly happy with. They just don't understand that this dog needs daily mental & physical exercise, training and guidance, and wants to work and be with her family. Not sit in the backyard fixating and barking all day.

My other friend's BC is human & dog aggressive, obese, and has severe pancreatitis because she began obsessively chewing on bark as a puppy and continued doing it for years. She also chases her tail all the time (probably the only exercise she gets) and bites it to the point of bleeding. Very sad.

Those were my only two friends with Border Collies. They aren't my friends anymore, their neglectful, selfish ways along with their personalities have driven me away. I just feel so bad that my dog convinced them to get a Border Collie. They know what I've been through with Gonzo, that I took him to a behaviorist and Obedience classes for 3 years and to the tune of $1000's, and for much of his life was taking him to Obedience/Agility/Flyball/Rally classes every week. They knew I took him to the park every day for hours to exercise him. They still underestimated the breed and thought that they were up to it, when in reality, they aren't dog people and weren't willing to change their lives for their dog.
 

Laurelin

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Personally, and this may be right or wrong, but there's some breeds I think that if the person doesn't find them on their own, I'm not going to ever suggest them. BCs, Mals, Filas, CAOs, etc fall into that category for me. My thoughts on the BCs or mals especially is that if people are suited, they're probably pretty dog involved already and will learn about them on their own. BCs in particular I really do think you need to spend a lot of time with a lot of members of the breed to get a real feel for them before jumping in.
 

Bailey08

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My dogs are bred to work, they are not Golden Retrievers.
I can't help myself -- just wanted to clarify in response to this and some other posts that there are plenty of goldens that are bred to work. Just as there are labs. And high energy goldens who are underexercised aren't going to be much happier than other "demanding" or "special" breeds, though they may exhibit different behaviors.
 

Fran101

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All you golden owners out there.
I think for the most part, people by sayings things like "These dogs aren't goldens" etc.. don't mean it as a bad thing!

It's just that goldens typically are such friendly, out going, sweet great family dogs and it's an easy contrast to make for dogs that aren't as.. well..GOLDEN! lol
It doesn't mean people think goldens are lesser dogs. I mean come on.. goldens rock at pretty much everything! It just means that they (for the most part) are great family dogs that adapt well to most environments and lifestyles
Show bred goldens, the most popular of the two types by FAR, are very versatile and are pretty easy to live with wether you want to snuggle on the sofa or go for a run.. or go for a daily stroll and then play hard on the weekend..they are very adaptable/easy but please don't think "easy" means something bad, because it's awesome!

There is a reason these dogs are so popular, so fly your golden freak flag high!
Being something that is adaptable to many lifestyles/occasions isn't a bad thing.. just think, goldens are basically the little black dress of the dog world!

which is hilarious because nobody I know with a golden wears black anywhere. lol too much shedding :p


And look at the smile :D


Just sayin'
 

Laurelin

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Y'all should come see some of the goldens running agility out there, especially in Texas. There are some amazing ones that were beating the socks off of the border collies. Now, granted I haven't seen these dogs in a home setting but they sure looked like a handful of energy and drive to me.

I think goldens are very often overlooked and underestimated.
 

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