Pointless pondering (breeding related)

I know there is no way to know for sure and no way to prove my theory but hey.

Riley always stands for up to 20 days. She started standing on Thursday and I allowed them together on Saturday. They have been at it basically non stop since then.

This morning I noticed her swelling has gone right down and she is now snarking him. That's 6 days standing. It took him a few hours but he has lost interest in her.

They are now sleeping, snuggled up with each other. He finally ate dinner.

My gut says she is pregnant. I know there is no way to tell now and it she is she is probably 2 seconds preggars. LOL. But I don't know. Her behaviour is telling me that she is.

Pointless ramble over. LOL.

Horse world calls it settling. They'll stand until the heat is over if they don't get bred. But once they breed a few times, or even just once, they're good!

Too much fluid can complicate things anyway if the female doesn't have good clearance. So if the female was bred, took, but continued breeding afterward when it wasn't quite necessary, she might not keep the pregnancy. Mother Nature knows best. Sometimes. Lol.

Never really been into dog breeding, but from a horse standpoint, it makes sense!

Sending major puppy vibes.

Good luck! Just did my 30 day ultrasound check and YAY we have puppies in there. And some little ethnic men with sombreros. eew.

Technically, they'll stand until they ovulate. Once those eggs are released, the hormones change and we see the "Don't touch me."

Never thought of clearance issues with dogs. I really wish there was more reproductive work done with dogs the way it is with horses. Would love to be able to SEE what happens after each breeding, and when she actually goes.

I personally don't leave two dogs together all the time, I have controlled breeding sessions, usually every other day. I guess in a more natural setting, the breedings would happen all day every day.

I have controlled their access to each other to a certain extent. He was removed from her all of Monday and was allowed with her for 4 hours for Fri, Sat, Sun each. Today I allowed them together. They bred once and she is now snarking.

I wonder what the education would be like for dog reproduction? I know with horses I'll need the basics of a Vet Degree, and then I would go into specialized training or a research lab. Which is fine, because I'm a genetics geek anyway. But it would be cool to learn about dogs, too.

I was actually really shocked to learn that most dog breeders don't even bother checking a pregnancy until right before the due date, and some of them don't even do that. There's so much more work involved in horses! :lol-sign:

Riley will be ultra sounded in 16 days to check for sacs. We have some pretty sensitive ultra sound equipment where I work, luckily.

Puppies puppies puppies puppies!!!!!

Dibs!!

Not having bred a dog, I could be mistaken. But I thought you were supposed to limit the number of matings.

Hope there are wee puppies though.

I think dogs have had it pretty well dead to rights since the beginning. Bitches left to their own devices will stand for as many dogs as the local schoolyard can hold.

Most people shoot for two or three ties across 4-6 days and pretty much call it good. More is just unnecessary and risk. Most old time breeders I know will let a young stud out with a bitch for as many days as she's willing to stand and others use the every other day approach with older males.

Personally I don't ultrasound but rather x ray the week before the due date. Nothing the ultrasound is going to tell me will change the conclusion of things either way.

Exciting! Congrats!

I think the two big reasons for that is that since horses carry for a lot longer, and don't always 'show' very well, it's more convenient to ultrasound and make sure there's a bun in the oven (or not). And, the biggest thing is to check for twins or triplets and terminate or try to pinch one off.

Would you mind expanding on the risks? I don't know much about breeding and I'm curious.

Totally agree. As twin don't survive.. If you paid a $1500 stud fee, you want that foal to make it, and don;t want to wait most of a year and have none in the end.

The main thing I think is that the eggs aren't all released at the same time and some can be fertilized earlier than others possibly making some puppies not fully mature at birth. I honestly haven't done too much looking into that theory, so I'm not sure if it is relevant. Some bitches will stand for 10 days if you let them, when they aren't necessarily ovulating for 10 days.

The main reason breedings are done every couple of days over about a 3-5 day period is because 9 times out of 10 you had to ship your bitch to the stud dog and they stay for about a week before being shipped back home. Or, if you're doing an AI most of the time you get two shipments of semen and do your breedings a couple of days apart to ensure that you got your bitch covered during the fertile days.

Incidentally I know a breeder who recently had a litter. The first 3 pups were born lets say on a Monday. They thought she was done, went to bed and came in the next day to 4 puppies. Then, no joke, Thursday a 5th puppy was born, live and well. All 5 pups are doing great, and mom is healthy. The first 3 were born early, the breeder had the xray scheduled for that morning and woke up to mom being in labor.

I have not allowed her to be covered the full time she has been standing. As per the advice of the fertility vet I allowed her to be covered 2 days after she started standing and allowed it for 3 days then pulled.

She will be allowed to stand again tomorrow if she wants to but so far she doesn't want anything to do with him. I confirmed this with my breeder and she agrees that its the best course of action.

That makes sense. It sounded a bit like they were just together for all that time.

Heartbeats are not visible on ultrasound until 26-28 days, that is really why most vets wait until day 30 to check. Yes, fetuses can be picked up earlier than that, but I like to know they're ALIVE.

As far as someone asking about dangers of too many ties, this is what I have found, from a transcript of an Online chat with Dr. Robert Hutchinson, a Reproduction Specialist. (http://www.doghobbyist.com/CanineRepro.html)

I read from this, that if you use your male frequently the first couple of days, you might be dealing with less viable semen when she actually is ready to go. Extra fluid that is not getting her pregnant. Of course, since semen can stay alive for days, there is little need to have 5 ties the first day! (what would happen if you simply left the dogs together.)

However, makes you wonder, doesn't it, how far removed this information seems from canines in the wild, or stray dogs. They don't seem to be having reproducing issues, and you can bet they are being covered multiple times in a day, sometimes by multiple males.

Anyways, good luck with your upcoming puppies!! You're about 30 days behind my litter.

No puppies. A vaginal swab showed she is exiting heat already. Apparently it is a side effect of Delvosteron and she should cycle normally in about 5 months.

Does this mean she never ovulated?

Yep. One if the trainers at the barn didn't ultrasound her mares for a couple years. She ended up with one set of twins that both survived but were small (dam was an Oldenburg, sire was an Arab) and one set of twins where one died and one survived (dam was a TB, sire was an Oldenburg/arab cross, full brother to the previously mentioned surviving twins). The surviving twin is as an adult noticabley smaller than her older sister (full sibling).

Sadly. Yes.