Can you tell me if I did the right thing?

I really don't care if it was on one dog or two dogs it still wrong.

There are other less harsh methods that people are trying to help you with for free. You can say you tried it but obviously your timing is off/sucks or something. It's not the dog that's failing here it's you. It sucks to hear it and if you ever realize it I am going to guess that will suck too. But you refusal to go back and try with all this new information while people are here who are willing to answer any of your questions if it isn't working out isn't hurting anyone but your dog and your future as a legitimate trainer.

Sure! Whatever you say. Once again, no one here knows my dog or what I have tried. So...the circle keeps going.

So do what was suggested get a video and show us. Show us the dog 'not getting it'. Show us that trying to teach the dog a cue doesn't work. Show all of that.

You can keep saying you want to be a trainer and you think we are all wrong but honestly I think that your refusal to try to work with people who WANT to help you learn a gentler way of training your dog speaks quite a bit and pretty loudly about what kind of trainer you'll end up being.

I would be really curious to know the exact steps taken to teach the dog to get off the bed before you resorted to hitting it.

Nope. That’s the beauty of TRUE rewards based training where the dog has to figure it out. Once they get it, its locked in. Believe me, it is LOCKED in! Just ask me how hard it was to UN teach my dog to step on my foot when finding heel. And he STILL defaults to that sometimes.

What does “everything else failed†mean really? I’ve always wanted to ask this when people say “I tried EVERYTHING and X was the only thing that worked.â€
Everything? Really? Did you put on a grass skirt and dance the hula hula?
Or in this case, did you try shaping the behavior? Do you know how to shape behaviors?

I'm just going to pop in here real quick and then run back and hide in my little hidey hole...

Barbara, I agree with you on this:
I use positive reinforcement/luring/shaping techniques when I am teaching something, for the most part. I think there are less than a handful of things I'll actually teach with a correction. But, I do use corrections to correct the dog. Not to teach, but to correct. There is a difference. I use corrections on my dogs...they aren't fearful.

But, there is a difference in HOW you correct. I can think of very few instances where I have actually hit/gotten physical my dog, and most of those were out of impulse. (Like when Blackie lunged at a truck driving by - it scared the bejesus out of me and my initial reflex was to smack him on the butt and tell him NO. Or when Chloe as a pup lunged at me over a piece of trash as I was approaching her and I scruffed her and tossed her about five feet away from me out of pure instinct.) I don't think any of those instances did any good whatsoever (nor did they do any harm), but they happened.

I think most of the "correcting" I do with my dogs is purely emotive. Tone of voice, body language, and posture. I have nothing against training collars, squirt bottles, shake cans, etc. when used the proper way with the right dog. I've also used the "shock and awe" technique before, although never really on purpose. LOL I remember hollering for Rose once and she decided to take off in the other direction. I followed and accidentally stepped on a corn stalk, breaking it, which let out a loud POP. She dropped to the ground and didn't give me any problems for quite some time with her recall. lol

The point being, you shouldn't have to physically manhandle your dog in order to teach or reinforce something. Even if you feel like that is the only way, it most likely isn't.

Sort of as an example for how different techniques work for different dogs, we have four dogs and all of them were taught to not get on the furniture without being invited:
Cynder, I think, just naturally sort of knew. She's a good dog.
Gracie, after being hollered at to "get off" a few times when she got up onto the couch, has stopped doing it completely unless she's invited. She's sensitive and wilts when she's scolded.
Cooper is told to get off as well, but he is also swiped or booted off, depending on what body part he lands by. He's grasped the concept very well. Even when he is excited and starts to jump up onto the couch out of habit, he'll correct himself mid air and do a weird little sideways hop/flip to make sure he doesn't connect with the sofa. LOL
Chloe was taught "off" via a lure, and she'll get off of whatever she's on if you tell her to.

Sadly I am serious. Was the first forum I found after I acquired Cider. Took me a long time to find others. Everyone told the twit off when she posted as most of her 'advice' was borderline between horrendous and abuse and we hoped no one would blindly do it.. but she'd advocate awful stuff often and call it training.

I just laughed and got root beer in my nose and it burns so bad but this keeps cracking me up XD

What is it from?

It's from Best In Show! If you haven't seen it you totally need to. This is my fave Posey Parker role I think, even though she plays pretty much the same role in every movie.
WHERE ARE MY TICTACS, UUUUUGH

You haven't seen Best in Show??? OMG WATCH IT NOW.

ETA: Here's the Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=yeifMjqpsg0&NR=1

This!!!!

I have not heard of this thing before!

I'm going to watch it tomorrow!

Best in Show is one of my favorite movies ever.

Whenever my sister or myself looks for something we say, "It's a bee... it's about this big... and it squeaks."

/not helpful.

It's a spoof of a dog show.

I mention this because my friend - who's a really good show dog handler but doesn't have much of a sense of humor - didn't realize it was a spoof until long after she watched it. She literally thought it was a poorly-done documentary. :rofl1:

That's the greatest thing I've ever heard. :rofl1:

Let me reword what I said earlier I am going to hunt it down tomorrow!

That first clip still cracks me up. I watched again and I'm still laughing and the trailer looks hilarious.

I LOVE mockumentaries

Confession. When I had Harry, I was totally the Weimaraner chick. My ex admitted to being the Bloodhound guy.

:rofl1:

I LOVE the Norwich owners!

I have sung 'Barbara Allen' to Elsie before, in the car.

I haven't yet dressed her up as Scarlet from Gone with the Wind though. ;]