What do you think of these "Top Alpha" dog techniques??

I've been doing quite a bit of research on how you are supposed to display your dominance to your dog and let them know you are the leader. I came across quite a few websites that showed these same techniques. I wasn't quite sure what to think, so what do you guys think about these techniques? Have you tried them with your dogs and do they even work??

Okay so, these are some of the techniques that I read to show you dog your the leader and not them:

*Walking through the door first and make them come after you.

*Eat your meal first, make sure they watch you eat, and then feed them.

*Do not walk around your dog when he/she is lying down. Instead, step over your dog or gently move him out of the way.

*Do not let your dog walk ahead of you when you have him/her on the leash.

*When you leave the house or the room, even for a minute, ignore the dog for a few minutes upon your return.

*If you establish eye contact with the dog, the dog must avert his gaze first. If the human averts first this reinforces the dog’s higher power position. Tell the children not to have staring contests with the dog, as if they avert or blink first, it will only reinforce, in the dog’s mind, that he is Top Dog.

*Games of fetch or play with toys must be started and ended by the human.

*You are the one who greets newcomers first, the dog is the last to get attention (the pack leader is the one who greets newcomers and lets the rest know when it is safe to greet the newcomer).

These are not all of the techniques, but I wanted to know what you guys thought of them. Have you tried any of these before and do they work??

I found these techniques on these websites.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogrules.htm

http://www.wikihow.com/Control-Your-Dog's-Behavior-by-Becoming-Pack-Leader

http://www.cbrrescue.org/articles/packleader.htm

http://www.pawposse.com/show-your-dog-youre-pack-leader/blog-41/

Thoughts??

In a word? Outdated. Clear, consistent expectations will take you a lot further than trying to be "dominant".

Dr. Sophia Yin has a great page on the topic of dominance in dogs if you want some more info: http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

I don't really do any of that. The only one I sort of do is I don't allow my dog to innitiate games of fetch. That isn't because she'll think she's the alpha, but because I don't want to reward her dropping nasty kongs in my lap all the time.

I guess I also don't let her jump on guests. Again, it's not because she'll think she's the boss, but because it's obnoxious.

I don't believe that most dogs spend the majority of their time trying to take over the household. I also don't really care much what Elsie believes, as long as her behavior isn't super obnoxious and she performs the behaviors she's asked to.

I really prefer my dog walk into the house before me, and I don't eat in the mornings. She has to eat breakfast first thing or she vomits.

I also spend a lot of time rewarding eye-contact. I want her to maintain focus on me; how else will she know what I want?

I think most of that list is pretty silly, to be honest. I think it's way more important to focus on actual behaviors and consistency than it is to worry about the dog's deep internal motivation (which I'd guess is usually not 'dominance'.)

I don't train or live with my dogs with the theory that I need to be the alpha and I don't believe that everything my dogs do is based on the fact that they're trying to be more dominant than I am. Dominance theory just does not fly in my home. I do believe dogs need leadership and structure, and I provide that, but not because I feel they're going to rule the world if I don't. Dogs just live more happily if they know what's expected of them and have clear boundaries and rules set. That said, I do follow a few of the rules you've listed.

If I am going somewhere with them, I make them all wait while I go through the door first. 1) because I don't want them to learn that they get their way by door bolting and 2) it establishes that I expect them to relax and pay attention before we head out. At home, I make them sit and wait before going out the back door into the yard also. Again, because I don't want them flying out like maniacs or door bolting. In my house, you don't go through a door until you've been given permission.

Usually I do go around. But If I have to step over them, often I'll tell them to move instead. Otherwise sometimes they decide to stand and follow me while I step over them and then I trip on them. So it's either I go around or you move, depending on what's easier.

I don't like my dogs walking ahead of me on leash just because I feel they pay better attention when they're by my side. And also, I don't bump into them when they're beside me when they suddenly stop to sniff something. But sometimes I'll tell them to go ahead, too. Off leash they run every which way and it doesn't matter.

I always ignore my dogs when I come home. I don't need the whole crew getting spastic at the door. Dance squeals, Ripley pounces on the girls and then they all run around like maniacs. And get extra pushy with me for attention. So I'd rather leave them be and visit them in a few minutes when everyone is nicely calm and relaxed. It's just more preferable that way.


Usually games are started and ended by me, but not for any real reason. Usually I start them because I feel like playing and have to wake everyone up and then I end them because once they're playing, they don't quit and I have to tell them I've had enough.

Again, I don't want my dogs bolting or rushing the door, so they're all expected to wait politely while I greet the person and open the door. After that, they're welcome to say hello to the person. It has nothing to do with being the pack leader and everything to do with wanting well mannered dogs with a healthy respect for not charging out a door uninvited.

My dogs have a fair amount of rules and boundaries set for them. And it's to make them easy to live with for me, for them to understand what's expected of them, and also for their own safety.

I also think most of the list is silly, and there are other reasons why people would do them, as Toller pointed out.

Another one I really despise is picking your dog up, throwing them down, and growling in their face for a correction to EVERYTHING.

this absolutely.

i can't stand this dominance craze. i hope it dies out soon.

This sticky thread may be helpful:
http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136916

Others have explained it in more detail, but my short answer would be do more research. Look at the Dr Yin link posted above, read stuff by Dr Karen Pryor, Dr Ian Dunbar, Dr Patricia McConnell, and more.

Seems an awful lot of effort for no results. Why would anyone be that obsessive about such stupid things?

I don't believe in dominance theory in general, that said. We have implimented some of those rules into our house in an effort to gain more structure, leadership and generally have better control of our lot as a group.

Its more or less just stricter NILIF and not working to thier demands. Its made them a much easier group to live with actually. Considering as a family we all have different rules and expectations of our own individual dogs its been easier for everyone to have a united front with the same rueles all round.

But I think its consistency, fairness and understanding goes a lot further than "dominance".

I agree Puppydog... what a long, elaborate list of ways to eliminate all happiness and fun from yours and your dog's life! D:

It's surprising, but an insane number of people believe in displaying their "dominance" at all times. Men especially LOVE calling themselves "alpha". What they don't realize is that by simply controlling your dog's food intake, exercise, breeding, along with EVERYTHING they do automatically makes you "dominant". That word is so wrongly used as a synonym for bullying, aggressive training techniques & is not ever a way of describing a dog's personality. Because dogs cannot be dominant, if you know the correct definition of the word. We control them, we own them.

Personally, I want dogs who are well-mannered and obedient as well as loving, joyous and hilarious. To dominate them would be to crush their amazing personalities and damage their trust in me. I don't want to scare my dogs into being subservient, I want my dogs to work with me and feel free to be themselves! I love dogs, why would I want to suppress their personalities? Why even have a dog if I want them to be passive robots? Consistently showing them what I want from them and reinforcing good behavior teaches them that what I want them to do is rewarding... all animals do what is rewarding to them! They wait at the door because I've taught them to wait, and the reward is going on a walk. They walk on a loose leash because I've taught them that we stop the second the leash is tense. They don't beg for food because I don't reward them with food. I love my dogs to give me eye contact, and they will do so for 5 minutes straight while heeling at attention in Obedience! There is a big diff between focusing on me & threatening stares/whale eyes.

My dogs KNOW I'm not a dog, I don't want them to view me as a dog, and besides that why would I try to act like a wolf (based on outdated, false perceptions of wolf packs)? That's like saying, "I want to work on my parenting techniques, so I'm going to study chimpanzee behavior."

I think it sounds like an awfully boring way to live with your dog... LOL

No but really... no. I get this question from clients ALL the time, and I tell them, "The only one thinking about dominance is you, not the dog." Your dog just wants to do things they like - eat, play, sleep, chase things, etc. That what motivates them, not an arbitrary set of rules meant to dictate a hierarchy.

Treat your dog like a partner and teach them what you expect through reward-based training, and you'll both be just fine.

ETA: Oh yeah, and if the eye contact thing is true, I must have two little would-be dictators on my hands here, LOL. They've been taught that looking at me is The Best Thing and will get them rewarded, so they like to stare.

I also wanted to add that I hope you know we're not ragging on you! We're ragging on the method, but NOT you. You asked an honest question and good on you for asking, because now you know and you can use more modern and effective techniques with your dog.

Totally inconvenient for me. When its the butt crack of dawn and I'm letting everyone out for their morning pee, I have no desire to be the first one outside to discover puked up rat parts with my bare feet that the cats like to leave as presents.

What if I want to go out to eat and feed the dogs before I go? What if I don't like dogs staring at me when I eat? What if I don't want to eat anything just then? (Hey, it could happen!)

Again, totally inconvenient. If my dogs are laying on the ground stretched out, I'd have to do close to a splits to walk over them.

Darn, well I guess tracking is out, skijoring is out, S&R is out, running a team of sled dogs is out...

What if said dog is a puppy and decided to eat your favorite shoe in your minute absence from the room? Do you ignore the shoe eating too?

Oh dear, we're doing it all wrong in my house. Not only do the kids and dogs stare at each other, the dog is clearly dominating the kid here!



I might get on board with this one but only because having a slobbery, slimy tennis ball dropped in my lap when I'm wearing black dress pants is annoying.

What if I don't like the newcomer and would rather they not come visit anymore? Do my dogs get to channel Cujo to greet them?

I'm with the others, I think you need to do a LOT more research

Dominance is not a state or personality trait. Strictly scientifically speaking, dominance describes a relationship between two animals of the same species. IOW, forget about dominance when it comes to you and your dog.

I just say, "listen bitches, i'm in charge" and we go about our day

:rofl1:

You can probably also empathize with having two leashes with 5-7 foot long dogs attached, one arm with a bunch of grocery bags dangling off it, while holding a sleeping kid in the other and trying to get through a doorway. No, it's impossible to get through the door first will all that stuff, then try to reach back through with tiny handicapped t-rex arms to hold the the screen door open forever so that the whole dog can make it in without the door slamming shut and breaking a tail.

It's way easier to send the dogs in first and then follow. No messing with the door and I can tend to the kid and groceries immediately.

I want to try this but I fear I would be drowned out by the barking. LOL

LOL especially at the "handicapped t-rex arms"! I have twins, I can soooo relate!!
I wonder sometimes what world these dominance chest thumpers live in?

As an aside, there needs to be a like button on this forum

...Your fun with your dog is them eating first/at the same time, going through doors first, and walking in front of you?

Yah, I'd say go with more research I do some of the rules though, I guess...

I don't go in the backyard with her... so I'm not about to walk through the door before her. She goes out first for walks, because she is in front of me

She always has her bowl down, and unless she ate it all, there is food in it. Though we don't give her food before we eat, because it's not a feeding time for her. We never let her watch us eat, though... staring is rude.

We either step over her or say "excuse me" and she moves. There's not really enough room to go around her.

Yah, she definitely walks ahead of me... how else would I know which way she wants to go?

She doesn't demand attention... so I guess we ignore her.

Staring is rude, so we don't stare.

but then how would I know when she wants to play?

She definitely greets people first. In hopes of her scaring them away

I could be wrong, but I took that to mean that it isn't fun to spend all day worrying about how your interactions are going to make the dog doubt your leadership, and spend all your time worrying about your dog's secret plan to overthrow humanity.