Training tables

Do you guys do a down/sit or just a stand? Pros and cons? Is USDAA the only one you need a down for nowadays? I feel so far behind on the new rules.

My trainer is recommending a down for us because she says that dogs tend to hold the downs and sits better than just standing. She also says that I need to be able to build some distance with Mia while she's on the table because she's so fast, it'll give me some time to get out ahead of her.

USDAA is a down, I can't remember what you need for AKC. CPE you only need to touch the table with one paw - though it's only used for games to stop time. TDAA (Teacup) we've done either sit, down, or stand depending on what the judge chooses.

I train an automatic down, but I plan on trialing mostly in AAC where the table is always a down. l also plan on trialing in CKC where the table can have a sit or a down, but I'll just cue the sit.

Distance from the table is always good to train for. Really, it's like any other stay....you should be able to do anything without the dog breaking. I really wish all organizations would remove the table though, it's so boring!

Here's Pan shaping her automatic down.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWvANjSmWQo

AKC now has a position-less table so as soon as the dog gets on it, the judge begins counting.

Stays are not Mia's strong point at all. I've had a really difficult time building any kind of stay with her and especially building a stay and then keeping her interest.

There's not many agility options in Oklahoma. Most trials are AKC, but that's even if we do trial which is up in the air completely because of her knees. So far we're cleared to play and she's been doing well with no problems.

I started today trying to freeshape an automatic down. She thinks it's boring.

How is she with her positions (sit, stand, down)? Is she food motivated?

Very food motivated and she's good at going into a sit and a down on command. She just has a tendency to pop up and she always wants to be doing something. Staying still is always a challenge.

Freeshaping IS boring. Why not capture the downs?

I taught Luna that the cue "table" means jump up on this thing and then do an automatic down. The good thing with such little dogs is that the possibilities of things to jump up on are pretty much endless - boxes, tables, chairs, really everything - so it's easy to find a way to practice.

Not sure if this'll help, but you reminded me of a dog I worked with on stays earlier today. I've been working stays (among other things, of course) for weeks and still am not progressing very far..... He totally CAN do the stay, he's just not really interested; not distracted even, just bored. But it's difficult to make a stay exciting, which has been my problem with him.

I've been following the "rule" of training stay: teach duration first, then distance and distraction. But the duration part was the hard part for him. So today I decided to work distance instead. Where previously he could only do a stay if I was standing next to him, and only for a duration of about 15 seconds, by the end of my session today I could walk 10 feet away, and sit in a chair for over 2 minutes without even having to reinforce him.

Point is, you don't always have to play by the rules.

Again, not sure if this helps (and I'm sure you've gotten a lot of other advice on stays since that's not really what this thread's about *sorry for the threadjack!*), but it was on my mind so I thought you MIGHT be interested.

Okay, on another tangent , have you ever done Susan Garrett's Crate Games? It's an excellent way to teach self-control and real understanding of the release cue.

Good blog post by a superb obedience trainer....http://denisefenzi.com/2012/05/15/lyra-9-months-active-stay/

I was going to say, I have never once taught or worked a stay with Gusto, and he's got a super fast table that I can lead out from past the next obstacle. Crate Games are the best for teaching stays. We were laughing at it in class last week. One of the dogs had never had the owner lead out from the table before. He followed her once or twice, and you could see the little gears in his head turning: "Oh, it is *this* game." And she instantly had a great lead out.

USDAA is the only US venue I know of that requires a particular position at this point. I'll keep my opinions on the "just be on the table" rules to myself Nearly everyone I know trains for a fast down on the table, myself included, but we have a lot of USDAA here.

I like training for a fast down on the table because if the dog runs hard at the table it tends to get their center of balance low and it seems like fewer dogs pop of the far side if they are trained to down as they mount the table.

That said I haven't had training access to a table in a long time so the girls' autodown is umm not what it used to be. Their stays are solid though so I an lead out several obstacles during the countdown which is key on some courses.

We do crate games a lot but crate games are a really tough go for Mia. Crates and then staying are not her strong suit. We've been working on it a little bit month by month and I'm seeing some progress but I still don't have a big handle on the crate games yet. I found my crate games dvd the other day (it vanished when I moved).

Why not teach Savvy's favorite trick - jump in a box and down? It's a great way to trick the dog into learning a stay and would be good home practice for table work. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150619161005850

As for table rules and what not, I'm actually surprised the table hasn't been phased out of agility at this point. It's one remaining old fashioned obstacle that doesn't seem to fit with modern agility aside from UKC (along with the crossover and sway bridge).

I teach an auto-down as they are less likely to go flying off the other end if they are already moving into the down position.