A breed like Chloe?

Well, her good parts, anyway.

Although I'm 99.9% certain my next dog will be a Lab, I really find myself appreciating some of Chloe's character traits. She's a mix breed (Australian Shepherd and farm collie - I was told he was a purebred Rough Collie, but I'm doubtful) and some of her personality traits I could do without, but she really is my perfect dog in other ways. And since I know I just don't want to own Labs, I thought I'd see if there was a breed(s) that I should also be looking in to for the future. I also thought I should make this post now while Chloe is having a good day and I'm marveling out her finer points instead of wanting to strangle her.

- I love her size. I think the smallest size I'd ever really want to own would be Cynder's size, which is about 30 pounds. Chloe is 45 pounds and that is just about perfect. She's "small" enough I can easily lift her, but she's big enough to be a "big dog", too. Even though she's not small height wise, she is lighter boned and more flexible than other dogs her size, which I also love.

- I love her athleticism. Although most dogs I know are just as athletic as she is (she's nothing special), I love that she can run, jump, and do things. If I need her to hop up into the bed of a truck, onto a grooming table, or into the tub, she can. I've seen some dogs that lack that skill (and when I want them to jump out of the low tub in at work they end up almost face planting because they can't figure out how to get their hind feet out of the tub as well as their front LOL).

- I love how physical she is. She loves to wrestle and just generally rough house. You push her around, she'll push back. You want to play tug and she's all over it. She's not sensitive towards roughness, I suppose, and I love that.

- I love her energy level and off switch. She is game for whatever I'm game for. Bike ride? Sure. Hiking? Brilliant. Trip to the park and lots of fetch? Sweet! It's cold, wet, and rainy and I just got home from a ten hour day on campus, so all I want to do is sleep even though she's been in the house all day with nothing to do and it has been a similar scenario all week long? No problem. (Granted, she wasn't like this as a puppy, but puppies are teh evil.) She'll initiate play when she wants to play and is always game for whatever we initiate, but she is also content to just lay around. As I type this she's laying on my bed sound asleep with her head sticking out the hole in my window screen and we've done absolutely nothing today.

- I love her intelligence and eagerness to learn. She is really smart and so much FUN to work with. Blackie was kind of like that, but he was in it mainly for the pay off in treats. Chloe learns because...she loves to learn. Watching the little wheels in her head crank around when she problem solves and figures out a new trick just for the sheer joy of learning it (and to get the treats) is awesome. She isn't what I would dub "eager to please" (Blackie would obey because that is what I wanted him to do - Chloe gives me the bird and says, "Why should I?"), but she is eager to work and enthusiastic ALL the time.

- I love how emotive she is. Not only is she sensitive to our own body language, facial expression, and tone of voice, she is also very expressive. She utilizes her eyes, ears, mouth, tail...every ounce of her body to express what she is feeling at any given moment. Some of it is subtle, some of it is not, but the end result is a dog that has a very large personality.

- I love her instincts. She has an innate drive to guard the property, drive off intruders, and protect her family. She alerts to strangers, does not tolerate strangers coming onto the property that we have not acknowledged the presence of, loves people when in public or after she's been introduced, she "critters" the yard, runs to us when we are in distress (my sister saw a spider once and screamed like she was being murdered - Chloe was sound asleep on the couch, but she immediately jumped up, ran to my sister while growling and barking her head off, and then promptly attacked the spider when JeanAnne pointed at it), and she accepts any and all small animals I bring in to the house as her "babies".

What I wish I could change:
- her noise level. I don't mind it when she talks, but I have a very hard time getting her to STFU when I need her to stop. I'd be much happier if the amount of noise she made was reduced by about half. I'd cry if she was any more vocal.

- her reactiveness/anxiety. I wish she wasn't sound sensitive or so reactive to things. If she could just take things in stride and accept all as well then I'd be much happier. I never again want a dog that can't just go with things/handle stress.

- her dog/dog manners. Frankly, she's a bullying, snarky bitch. This ties in a lot with her reactiveness, but I wish she would tolerate dogs getting into her bubble while out in public and be able to politely interact with them. I don't particularly want a dog that is all, "Yey!!! DOGGIES!! BFFs!!" to every dog it meets, but a polite dog...that would be nice.

- her coat. Although I really don't mind clipping it down with a 5/8" comb every month and a half (since I don't brush her), it would be nice if she was wash and wear.

- her willingness to please. I really liked having a dog that would do what you said because your word is God's. Made training application so much easier. LOL But, if given a choice, I'd pick her smarts and love of learning over a push button dog. It would just be nice to have my cake and eat it, too.

So. Are there any breeds that would fit who Chloe is? I'm assuming Aussie, since that is what she's mixed with, but most of the Aussies I've met have been nerve ball spazzes that never shut up. Which is Chloe, but not the part of her I'd like to duplicate.

Tbh a lot of that sounds like Spy, who is a BC. I notice a lot of people think BCs are exercise crazy and need a ton but Spy really isn't, and he has an excellent off switch. There's been times where he hasn't been walked for a couple days and he is not spazzing or bouncing off the walls.

What I have noticed is that Spy is happy when he is with us. When my parents take him to the office, or when I am just working in the garden, whatever... He wants to be around. He doesn't need a crapton of daily exercise like all the books and articles say BCs do. While I believe it is partially a training thing, it is also definitely a genetic thing. If you look into BCs (which it sounds like might not be a bad idea), just make sure the lines you want or the breeder you like has dogs with a solid off-switch that can relax in the house. If a BC breeder is breeding dogs that cannot settle, I personally think that is doing a major disservice to the breed because a practical border collie (and they were bred to be a practical, reliable farm dog) should be able to get up and go at any time, but also not be a nuisance when it's down time.

Most of the things you described Chloe as sound a lot like Spy, and he is also a very quiet dog... Rarely barks. He also has a very easy wash and wear coat, but I know some BCs don't. That is also a breeder/lines thing, and you can definitely find someone breeding dogs with 'easy' coats

I would choose,in bet:An English Shepherd,A Border Collie or even,an Aussie.

It's funny....you say your next dog will be a lab.
One of my lab girls is exactly the dog you are describing.....she is a purebred lab from a good breeder, but she's very small.

Moka is only 17" tall and weighs 50 lbs. She's very, very athletic, loves to wrestle and roughhouse and has tons of energy.
She sounds like exactly what you're looking for in your next dog AND she's a lab...LOL

Here are a few pics so you can get an idea of her size(yes, she is full grown at 2 1/2 years old):

Sounds exactly like an ES to me! The only thing Quinn doesn't fit is the being physical part - she loves having her back scratched roughly and will smile and growl and roll around like an idiot, but she does not like handsy or wrestling play. She'll back up and put her tail over her back and grumble at you to calm the eff down LOL. I would be very willing to bet a male who isn't as srs and bossy as Quinn wouldn't mind near as much, but you'd have to deal with more coat (English Shepherds are known to be wash and wear but I'd make an effort to brush a few times a month anyways).

Now, she does have issues with other dogs. I really do blame myself for this though - I don't think she would have matured like this had she not been exposed to so many rude dogs and had a bad experience with an aggressive St. Bernard during a fear period. My next ES will only have the best exposure to polite dogs with good play manners - quality (of interactions) not quantity, I've learned. I know lots of people online whose English Shepherds are fine with other dogs so while the bossiness and the desire to keep everyone in line is definitely a breed trait, I don't think aggressiveness is lol . Quinn is so unbelievably stable other than that. She hardly ever spooks, and the oddest of sights, sounds, people, mishandling, etc has never bothered her even as a young puppy. She's very adaptable to different situations and environments. Like Chloe she loves small animals and kids absolutely light up Quinn's life.

eta: I think a well bred Aussie would suit you as well. Maybe a smooth Collie as well? Not sure!

As I was reading it I was thinking, collie, english shepherd, and possibly a BC or aussie.

I thought collie.

Yes, I'm hoping to end up with a small(er) Lab when I get him. Blackie was around 75 pounds lean and Sadie was 60 pounds normal, so even though they were "big", I'm still used to the lighter end of the spectrum. I always used to say I was a big dog person, and I am in a way, but medium sized dogs are so much more practical.

This is a bitch from a litter the sire I am hoping to get a pup from sired:


And another bitch from similar lines as the sire:


So they're definitely more along the lines of a more medium sized Labrador versus the more common bench type.

I've always thought Chloe looked like an English Shepherd and from what I knew about them, I figured she acted pretty much like one as well. Are all English Shepherds created equal? I know they aren't a very common breed, so I wasn't sure if there were huge differences in temperaments and health across various lines. My brother's roommate has three English Shepherd crosses (mixed with GSD, they believe) and I really like them. Our neighbor has one as well (and I do believe just got another one) and while I've never met the dogs, I do admire them from afar.

I've never even thought of a Collie before. I know absolutely nothing about them.

In regards to coat, I kept Chloe long up until last year when she finally started having a really thick undercoat around her neck and hind quarters, I'm assuming from her Collie heritage. She looked like this:


That was a little much for me, mainly because she would mat SO bad through her hind quarters and she absolutely detests being brushed. Brushing her out was always a task of, "Let's see how much we can get done before she gets pissed off and starts trying to bite me." If she would have cooperated a bit better, I think I would have just kept getting her trimmed up.

But now she gets turned into nekkid dog every two months and I think we're both happier for it:

Unfortunately because they are so rare around here I haven't personally met a lot of different dogs - Quinn's breeder is the only breeder in the province so I've only met Quinn's relatives. I found them all quite similar though. Not overly friendly, but graceful and welcoming and happy to get attention. I loved on Quinn's dam and grand dam for ages, petting their stomachs, hindquarters, faces, stealing kisses, leaning over them as they laid flat out on their sides and they were more than happy to accept this. Quinn is the freak in that she is a huge attention wh*re and is all over anyone who will acknowledge her, while the relatives I've met have been more calm but just as sweet - maybe she'll grow up eventually LOL. Super devoted to their people, happy to just be with you, and they all love kids!

I'm not sure how to explain this but while there is a variety of builds and types of ESs, any breeder I've spoken to has been all about preserving an all around type of farm dog so I don't think there's a big split in the way that some breeds have where certain breeders are breeding almost strictly for conformation, agility, stock work, etc. The ES community in general is not one that wants these dogs AKC/CKC accepted and showing conformation. It's all about working ability and temperament with them. Most ES breeders have a common goal of producing a mentally, physically sound farm dog that can work stock, hunt vermin, guard the land and stock and be a priceless companion for the entire family. Some breeders, like Quinn's, seems to breed for a "sportier" type of dog suitable for sports like agility and flyball, but many of her puppies have gone on to be wonderful and capable "just farm dogs". Other breeders seem to be producing large (65-80 pounds) ESs that I'm sure are wonderful at watching the farm and are great family dogs but may not be as athletic as a 40 or 50 pound dog. As far as health, HD is common in the breed and should absolutely be tested for, as well as MDR1 in my opinion. This is the minimum that I personally look for as I browse breeders for my next pup, but the more testing the better!

I agree....a lab fits the bill!!!
You could look for a litter from a smaller sire/dam...or even look at field bred labs. Alot of the females that are field bred are on the smaller side.

I thought lab too.