Westminster
- Thread starter MericoX
- Start date
But he never mentions how it's supposedly harder to identify a sable merle and the risk of accidental merle/merle breedings. I've been present at two whelpings. It's pretty obvious when they're born, and there are still signs to indicate when they're older if it isn't obvious in the coat. A sable merle that is so cryptic you can't tell at birth or as it ages would be pretty darn rare. From what I understand, it mainly happens in docked breeds because the tail is usually where it's obvious. But in most of those cases the onus is on the breeder who presumably knew before they were docked.
Anyway, in collies blue or cracked eyes is a pretty good sign that an adult sable is merle. The base sabling itself also tends to come out a really light honey color compared to normal sable littermates who are quite a bit darker at birth. If I had a breeding with the possibility of sable merles, and there was a very light sable puppy but no other indication of merle I'd still note it as merle, just in case.
ETA: and I'm just going by what he says in the article. The whole thing lambasts merle to merle (which is cool), but then goes on to make some misleading statements about sable merles, and then states at the end that crossing color lines is a heinous act because it will lead to dead fetal puppies and deformed live births. Which is patently untrue. But John Q. Public who knows very little about dog color genetics doesn't know that, so now they'll see breeders with healthy sable merles and lump them with Evil Greedy Show Breeders.
Anyway, in collies blue or cracked eyes is a pretty good sign that an adult sable is merle. The base sabling itself also tends to come out a really light honey color compared to normal sable littermates who are quite a bit darker at birth. If I had a breeding with the possibility of sable merles, and there was a very light sable puppy but no other indication of merle I'd still note it as merle, just in case.
ETA: and I'm just going by what he says in the article. The whole thing lambasts merle to merle (which is cool), but then goes on to make some misleading statements about sable merles, and then states at the end that crossing color lines is a heinous act because it will lead to dead fetal puppies and deformed live births. Which is patently untrue. But John Q. Public who knows very little about dog color genetics doesn't know that, so now they'll see breeders with healthy sable merles and lump them with Evil Greedy Show Breeders.
The Ibizan Hound that won BOB in the breed judging I know in person. She is such a cuddle bug and she is the Ibizan Hound I'm still technically on a list to get a puppy from though its looking like I'm going to back out and wait longer for a beezer possibly... Not positive yet. But I was really happy for her and her owner Sarah.
On the other hand... I was pretty sickened by how many overweight dogs there were at the show.
On the other hand... I was pretty sickened by how many overweight dogs there were at the show.
Okay I think my explanation was more convoluted than the way BorderWars wrote it originally so let me try to explain again.
The whole sable thing is a CCA issue. They are debating splitting the colors. Chris is not weighing in on that discussion in this piece. Going to requote from his page since it's way up in the thread now.
So what he's saying is that the CCA is all tied up in knots over the sable issue even though there IS no sable issue because the only known color health issue is the whole merle thing...which is the same (as you said) regardless of base coat color. "Yet" while the CCA is all up in arms over the sable issue, there are breeder creating double merles (the dead, infertility, blind, deaf Collies) simply so they can use them to create all merle litters.
Further that other clubs around the world have recognized that merle X merle is the key issue here and have banned it, while CCA allows itself to be distracted with health-irrelevant color issues and Westminster rewards the people doing/supporting the breeding of double merles with a BOB.
The whole sable thing is a CCA issue. They are debating splitting the colors. Chris is not weighing in on that discussion in this piece. Going to requote from his page since it's way up in the thread now.
So what he's saying is that the CCA is all tied up in knots over the sable issue even though there IS no sable issue because the only known color health issue is the whole merle thing...which is the same (as you said) regardless of base coat color. "Yet" while the CCA is all up in arms over the sable issue, there are breeder creating double merles (the dead, infertility, blind, deaf Collies) simply so they can use them to create all merle litters.
Further that other clubs around the world have recognized that merle X merle is the key issue here and have banned it, while CCA allows itself to be distracted with health-irrelevant color issues and Westminster rewards the people doing/supporting the breeding of double merles with a BOB.
Here you go:
GCH Clearcreek Bonaventure Windjammer
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/photos/breed/SR39094901.html
And these are all the results: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/results/breed/labdoret.html
GCH Clearcreek Bonaventure Windjammer
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/photos/breed/SR39094901.html
And these are all the results: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/results/breed/labdoret.html
I think Jack might actually be related to that dog! Jack's better looking IMHO, but I'm biased 
The lab is probably over weight, but honestly, it's hard to tell by how much without putting you hands on the dog. Bench bred labs often have more coat than your garden variety lab (Jack has a LOT of coat), and tend to have extra skin. As an adult Jack has always weighed between 65 and 68 lbs (small for a male lab) but you can't tell his real size unless you feel him up or when he has been swimming. He has a tuck, but often it looks like his (underline?) is almost straight across due to his hair. He also seems to have more skin than Sally.
So, while that lab does most likely carry more weight than he should on his frame, I can almost garentee what you are seeing is not all fat, there is a lot of hair and skin in there too.
Not making excuses, just thought I'd throw that out there...
The lab is probably over weight, but honestly, it's hard to tell by how much without putting you hands on the dog. Bench bred labs often have more coat than your garden variety lab (Jack has a LOT of coat), and tend to have extra skin. As an adult Jack has always weighed between 65 and 68 lbs (small for a male lab) but you can't tell his real size unless you feel him up or when he has been swimming. He has a tuck, but often it looks like his (underline?) is almost straight across due to his hair. He also seems to have more skin than Sally.
So, while that lab does most likely carry more weight than he should on his frame, I can almost garentee what you are seeing is not all fat, there is a lot of hair and skin in there too.
Not making excuses, just thought I'd throw that out there...
I am happy that the BOS winner is a performance bred pap. I don't really know any of these kennels though!
I do really like her: http://amourebeaupaps.com/index.html
I do really like her: http://amourebeaupaps.com/index.html
The Black Belgian, Hondo is a really nice dog, have seen him quite a but at local shows. And his sister was BOS and is really nice too. Their breeder is pretty into herding with her dogs and I believe Hondo is titled in herding. His dam has her HXAs and some agility titles (and her dam has a bunch of titles too: HXAs HIAd NA NAJ HTDII STDs). And he's co-bred by Whim's breeder
I know the PyrShep pretty well, also a really nice dog with a wonderful temperament. Until recently he was shown by a Junior Handler and she got some Group placements on him. He's a very funny little dog, wish his owner did agility with him because I think he'd have a blast!
I thought it was nice to see a more moderate show GSD, although I see a lot of people still saying they thought he was really extreme. He's definitely moderate for what he is (a big winning show bred GSD). Not saying it's the type I prefer or anything, just an observation
It's a bit odd to see dogs from one or two kennels and assume that "show mals look so different". There is really not one "show type" in Mals the way there is in say Labs, were show Labs all tend to look a certain way no matter where they are from.
I know the PyrShep pretty well, also a really nice dog with a wonderful temperament. Until recently he was shown by a Junior Handler and she got some Group placements on him. He's a very funny little dog, wish his owner did agility with him because I think he'd have a blast!
I thought it was nice to see a more moderate show GSD, although I see a lot of people still saying they thought he was really extreme. He's definitely moderate for what he is (a big winning show bred GSD). Not saying it's the type I prefer or anything, just an observation
It's a bit odd to see dogs from one or two kennels and assume that "show mals look so different". There is really not one "show type" in Mals the way there is in say Labs, were show Labs all tend to look a certain way no matter where they are from.