Spay questions

Exactly.

Being a mutt doesn't mean all of the physiological and behavioral consequences of spaying would just skip on by her.

so mutts aren't magical?!
WHAT?!

*frantically covers Kim and Webster's ears*

...

*realizes there is no way her hands could cover Web's ears*

Drat.

Mine is.

Hahaha

Ya the reasons mentioned are a big part of why I've been considering waiting until she is about 2 though I'm still wanting to do my research now so when the time comes I have an idea what it's going to cost so I have the money set aside. She should be going into her second heat soon.... Maybe... I think its been about 4 or 5 months since her last one and I don't know her cycle yet. I've known female dogs that went into heat every 4-6 months and others that only did once a year.

cause that's not ****in offensive or anything...

I don't think they mean it in a hurt-your-feelings, your-dog-isn't-as-good-as-mine way (she has two mutts). They mean it in a it's-not-responsible-to-breed-mexican-street-dogs way so they believe it is a good idea to alter the dog to ensure prevention of accidents.

Crap happens and without a control group it's hard to say whether your dogs ailments are caused by a spay or not. IMO for every person who says "spaying did this to my dog" you can find someone else who says "keeping my dog intact did this to my dog".

I don't know if I've ever used this smiley before! :hail:

But in all seriousness, it's not fair to say that having a dog altered caused all these problems. Can they, of course! Can other factors also cause it, of course!

I was one of those "my dog had her urinary tract nicked/she has spay incontinence" people... until she didn't need meds anymore when she started getting chiropractic adjustments regularly. We saw a Wheaten puppy at the clinic with significant incontinence issues... NOT spay related (in fact, she wasn't spayed until long after this was finally diagnosed). She has a misplaced bladder (as diagnosed by the University, a group of medical professionals).

*shrug*

I weigh my options but I guess I'll always be one of the "I don't want to rely on 'herd immunity/control/responsibility' people." And that's the wonder if being individuals!

Whatever Amber decides to do with Cricket will be what she needs to do. Having an intact female certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I don't think anyone said she shouldn't spay Cricket. But having a complicated decision brought down to "I mean she's a mutt anyway, so why not!" is rather saddening, at least to me it is.

I don't care one way or the other what decision Amber makes, as long as it's informed and hers.

This.

I can't possibly say what affect spaying had on my dogs, because I don't know what they'd be like if they were still intact. Juno is incontinent but I also know that the problem was non-existent when she was on a raw diet. So.

Anyway. Spaying or not spaying, both have risks, neither is wrong.

This.

I typed out a longer response and my iPod went "I don't think sooo"

I've been thinking more and more lately about when we are going to spay Cricket. It's ridiculously expensive to spay out here it seems... Way more expensive than it would be if we were still in New Mexico.

My questions:

1. How do you deal with the fear and anxiety of having your dog put under for the surgery? I guess I'm just worried that Cricket may not do so well or have a reaction to the anesthesia or something. I'm sure she would be fine, but I can't help but get worked up worrying about how she would do.

It's normal to have that worry but this is more common than you think. Dixie was spayed at 9 weeks by my shelter. I was nervous but knew she would do fine and she did!

2. One of our clients recommended we look into the local shelter out here that does more affordable spay/neuter. They take your dog to a vet that does the surgery and you pick up your dog the next morning. They have the vet listed that they take dogs to in case people want to contact the vet themselves, but its a program they operate to help people S/N out here and it not be $500 like my vet quoted me. With that said, what are your thoughts on a program like this. Is this something I should look into or should I be leery? My main concern is that I want an experienced vet to do the surgery and not a vet student since I would rather someone not operate on my dog that is learning.

Well, I think low-cost spay and neuter clinics are fine. Usually students do not operate on them. They assist with surgery like prep them but they do not do the actual surgery. They hand the vets tools and stuff if students. Licensed vet techs or vets are the ones that do the surgery, not interns or anything like that!

3. For female dogs that tend to mark.... Did your female stop/decrease marking after being spayed or did they continue to mark all the time? Cricket marks a lot outside, but has been marking in the house recently... I think she is going to go into heat again soon.

My females have never marked.

4. Did you notice any other differences in your dog after being spayed? Temperament? Weight? Etc.

No. They were sore for a few days but back to their old selves and it has never caused weight gain or temperament changes. I would actually say get her spayed if you have no reason to keep her intact.. It's normal for you to be leary of her having the surgery but she will most likely be fine!

Techs should NOT be doing surgery! :yikes: I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather a vet student/intern did my dog's surgery than a TECH.

I'll have you know one of the guys I knew was a tech (RIP) and did help with surgeries not actual do them!! It's kinda odd you would say an intern or a student do surgeries instead of a tech. I'd much rather a tech do or help with the surgery than someone inexperienced do the surgery! But you have your opinions which you are entitled to and I have mine. Back on topic...

Wait, so you would really trust someone with a 2-year associate's degree to spay your dog? Wow. Of course techs HELP with surgery, as in monitoring the patient. But before you edited you implied they actually do the spay. Vet students generally have a at least a bachelor's degree before ever entering vet school (some a master's) and they do surgery typically in their last 2 years of vet school under the guidance of a vet. Interns have already graduated vet school and ARE vets, they just chose to do an internship.

I very much agree with the "it's your decision. your dog. your life" you know what is best.

The pros/cons of spaying/neutering have "One time at band camp.." stories on each side.
and each side (but especially the pro..) has a WEALTH of misinformation all over the place. and It's understandable, and I for one am kind of happy the consensus among regular pet owners is spaying/neutering is totally healthier/better because frankly.. erm.. peoples be dumb lol. and really, there are enough unwanted animals without MORE people walking around with un-altered pets and creating more.

List out the whys. list out the why nots. and make the choice..

I for one am waiting til 18 months on future dog, then spaying/neutering.
Here was my decision on deciding to s/n.. hope it helps!

THE PROS
-Being an avid lover of dog parks and other dog off leash places, it's a responsibility thing for me to have a dog that is s/n (no baby daddy dog park drama)
- Being a neat freak living in a studio apartment with white basically everything. heat cycles.. no fun.
- Most dog daycares, some dog training classes, dog sitters, etc.. require your dog to be spayed/neutered.
- Dog is less likely to be stolen, or if lost.. less likely someone will look at your dog and see dollar signs
- Baby daddy/baby mamma drama is no longer an issue. You can let your dog have playdates for how longer ever you wish without worrying about it.
- No more hearing the speech from your vet/everybody else about A. Pushing you to spay/neuter like the very idea that your dog is intact is KILLING some shelter dog or b. "Wanna breed your dog with my dog fluffy??"
- Bitches in heat can be annoying to deal with. Un-neutered males around females in heat can be annoying to deal with.
- For male dogs without hair.. you can see ball on them obviously lol which isn't a look many people appreciate lol
- If you plan on adopting a pet from a rescue. Having an intact dog will MOST LIKELY make them deny your application.

CONS
- It's part of your dogs body. It just doesn't sit well with me.. taking out organs for our convenience. What else do those organs do other than make babies? hormones? who knows..
- For spays especially it's quite a procedure.. the crate rest. the stitches. etc..
- The surgery itself. Going under..anestesia, price, vet time etc..
- No Breeding your dog in the future. Not that this is really the case for most people or a "maybe someday.." but I do know some people who buy pups from great breeders, neuter/spay, then the dog grows to be really a perfect example of the breed, rocks at a sport, has an amazing temperament, drive, show ring looks etc... the breeder is kicking themselves for placing the dog in a pet home, the owner is thinking "man I wish I could've bred him/her.."
- You can always choose to s/n later. You can never go back once you've done it.

For crying out loud. I KNOW the people who do spay and neuter clinics by volunteering at them and trust them. A very good friend of mine works there who is a tech. I wouldn't send my dog to a random clinic I didn't know!!! So don't put words in my mouth, thanks.

Oh and speaking of spay prices and such, I found out recently that my vet will allow partial payment plans as long as 50% of the surgery is paid in full. According to him, this is quite popular.. so you might want to check with your vet!

Oh and speaking of,I wouldn't let a tech perform surgery on my dog anymore than I would allow a nurse to perform surgery on me.
Not saying they are any less smart, capable, amazing individuals who probably see/help with plenty of surgeries.. but seeing doesn't mean trained to do IMO

Fran your pros and cons list is about spot on as far as how I feel... Though your second to last one on the pro list made me laugh.... Hahaha...

When I first got Cricket I kept going back and forth about whether or not I want to even spay her. I obviously have no intentions of breeding her so naturally spaying seemed the obvious choice, but there is just so much more to factor in especially on the medical front that it's not that simple of a decision for me to make. I'm definitely at the point where I know I do want to spay her, but I'm still on the fence as to when. Part of me wants to wait until she is at least two. Another part of me wants to just have it done imbetween her next heat and the following because we are active in a lot of local dog stuff and training classes that she would have to sit out whenever she is in season... But again there is just so much I want to factor before I ultimately decide when and where.

The studies I've read pretty much say that you reach a point of diminishing returns, health-wise, after the first or second heat (for females, obviously). Anyway, setting a particular age for "ideal time to spay" is counterproductive outside of making the human feel better...some dogs will be very mature at 1 year, others won't be til they are 3, 4 years old. If I had elected to spay Mira after her very first heat she would have been 2 years old already. And still physically immature. Other dogs I know had their first heat at 7 months and looked like mature adults at just over a year old.

It sounds like you're taking the decision seriously and educating yourself on the pros/cons. At this point IMO there's really not a wrong way to go on this.